Preview Changes v Port Adelaide

[Mr_Moogle]

Sorry for intruding.

I've watched quite a few Crows games and your biggest problem is 2 way running by your mids.

Yes, some of them have high tackle counts, which are usually coming when they are tackling at the stoppages.

Your mids rack up good numbers.... but so do their opponents.

For what its worth, I thought your midfield looked a hell of a lot better in the first couple of rounds without Thommo.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Goo luck this weekend.

This point is blatantly obvious. The second he came back into the side, we looked worse as a team despite the fact he was playing pretty good football. The Crows midfield is too damned slow but we keep selecting guys like Thommo who offer us no defensive run.

It also didn't help that Sando's drafting strategy was overly focused on one-paced midfielders. In years where we desperately needed some speedy outsiders and tall defenders, Sando kept picking slowish medium-sized midfielders. It was mind boggling.

 

[moogerfooger]

Sorry for intruding.

I've watched quite a few Crows games and your biggest problem is 2 way running by your mids.

Yes, some of them have high tackle counts, which are usually coming when they are tackling at the stoppages.

Your mids rack up good numbers.... but so do their opponents.

For what its worth, I thought your midfield looked a hell of a lot better in the first couple of rounds without Thommo.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Goo luck this weekend.

spot the **** on.

 

[Mckaye17]

Changes for me for this week-

Outs- VB, DMac, Matty Wright
Ins- Cheney, Rat, Shaw

Thommo to start forward, Brodie Smith to start in the centre with Danger and Matt Crouch. Hendo and the Rat to start on the wings. Try and get a bit more pace around the ball early. Obviously Matt Crouch is not quick but has the ability to release the runners with a well timed handball. Not too sure who gets the sub vest.

Where do you plan on playing Shaw then with those changes?

Brown - Talia - Lever
Cheney - Hartigan - Laird

Does he play forward or? Can't exactly have a fourth guy above 193cm, but I do like the fact in the coming weeks if Hartigan isn't in the best form Shaw will definitely be pushing for selection. Lever needs to play whether he's not great or not but I'm very confident he's having a great patch here.

 

[1970crow]

You live in a world of pure imagination

Seriously, address the questions. Your entire view on this is that our coaching group always get it right and that there is no room for improvement regarding the decisions that they make. You're suggesting that after the coach has died and Noble takes more control and Campo becomes the interim head coach that they won't make decisions based on their pre-existing beliefs. It's nonsensical to suggest that there is no way whatsoever plans that Phil had put in place regarding selection are not subject to change with the new dynamic.

Do you actually believe anything that you post on this subject.

 

[EddieWalker]

Where do you plan on playing Shaw then with those changes?

Brown - Talia - Lever
Cheney - Hartigan - Laird

Does he play forward or? Can't exactly have a fourth guy above 193cm, but I do like the fact in the coming weeks if Hartigan isn't in the best form Shaw will definitely be pushing for selection. Lever needs to play whether he's not great or not but I'm very confident he's having a great patch here.

We play with a back 7 the bulk of the time anyway. For this week I would have the following-

Talia vs Schulz
Hartigan vs Ryder/Lobbe
Lever vs Westhoff
Brown gets first crack at Wingard
Shaw goes to Monfries

Leaving Lairdy and Cheney to take the 6th forward depending on match ups and the other to be the loose. Having Shaw back just gives us a bit more flexibility as he can play as a key defender if required or take a smaller forward due to his speed. It gets Hendo further up the ground to hopefully break the lines the way we've been waiting for DMac to do again since 2009.

 

[EddieWalker]

Where do you plan on playing Shaw then with those changes?

Brown - Talia - Lever
Cheney - Hartigan - Laird

Does he play forward or? Can't exactly have a fourth guy above 193cm, but I do like the fact in the coming weeks if Hartigan isn't in the best form Shaw will definitely be pushing for selection. Lever needs to play whether he's not great or not but I'm very confident he's having a great patch here.

I do agree though that these 7 defenders won't work every week, but I think with the match ups this week it can work well, especially given Lever and Shaw both are happy to take the game on from defence and are not pure lockdown types.

 

[1970crow]

OK I've changed my tune. You're talking bullshit. You want to back that up with any kind of facts? how about you digest a couple more?

Of the top ten clearance getters, Thompson is fifth for one percenters, and second for average tackles per game.

Back up your rubbish opinion with some facts.

The issue has never been, and certainly isn't now, what happens at the rough and tumble of the clearance. It's about the quality of our extraction from it and the lack of spread once the ball is cleared by the opposition. This is where Thommo's inability to cover ground is causing us concern and it's one of the primary reasons that we get destroyed between the arcs. Watch him one day. He's at the contest, the ball is cleared but he remains largely stationary before jogging off to the next stoppage. The simple fact is that compared to 5 years ago, Thommo's generating nearly twice the amount of clearances per disposal as he did. If you look at pure clearance stats, his numbers stack up. It's only by watching the game that you realise that the attacking quality at the clearance is up the shitter and he's struggling to have an impact in general play. Don't get me wrong, he's had a couple of great games, he's no Van Berlo, but if we continue to use him in a role where he spends a lot of time between the arcs, then we are going to continue to be smoked through that area. He's also been more prolific after a rest, his opening 2 games then the 2 after the bye. Last week was the odd one out in that sense, although taking into account the lead up, Nic Nat and the large fast deck at Subi, he was probably always going to struggle, even after a week without a game.

I don't think he needs to be dropped, I for one do not want to see him playing SANFL, I'd like to see him managed better so that we get maximum output from him. Being a stoppage/clearance specialist isn't enough in the modern game unless you're very damaging with your disposal, which he's not. And by that I don't mean effective, I mean getting the ball outside of the stoppage to someone who isn't under as much pressure as you are.

 

[Mckaye17]

We play with a back 7 the bulk of the time anyway. For this week I would have the following-

Talia vs Schulz
Hartigan vs Ryder/Lobbe
Lever vs Westhoff
Brown gets first crack at Wingard
Shaw goes to Monfries

Leaving Lairdy and Cheney to take the 6th forward depending on match ups and the other to be the loose. Having Shaw back just gives us a bit more flexibility as he can play as a key defender if required or take a smaller forward due to his speed. It gets Hendo further up the ground to hopefully break the lines the way we've been waiting for DMac to do again since 2009.

Not a bad idea but personally I'd only add both he and Cheney if it's not forecast to rain. Can't take the risk with an extra tall in the wet, but I'd like that defense against the Swans or Dogs next time.

 

[EddieWalker]

Not a bad idea but personally I'd only add both he and Cheney if it's not forecast to rain. Can't take the risk with an extra tall in the wet, but I'd like that defense against the Swans or Dogs next time.

Agreed, probably too tall if it's a really wet day.

 

[footy4ever]

The issue has never been, and certainly isn't now, what happens at the rough and tumble of the clearance. It's about the quality of our extraction from it and the lack of spread once the ball is cleared by the opposition. This is where Thommo's inability to cover ground is causing us concern and it's one of the primary reasons that we get destroyed between the arcs. Watch him one day. He's at the contest, the ball is cleared but he remains largely stationary before jogging off to the next stoppage. The simple fact is that compared to 5 years ago, Thommo's generating nearly twice the amount of clearances per disposal as he did. If you look at pure clearance stats, his numbers stack up. It's only by watching the game that you realise that the attacking quality at the clearance is up the shitter and he's struggling to have an impact in general play. Don't get me wrong, he's had a couple of great games, he's no Van Berlo, but if we continue to use him in a role where he spends a lot of time between the arcs, then we are going to continue to be smoked through that area. He's also been more prolific after a rest, his opening 2 games then the 2 after the bye. Last week was the odd one out in that sense, although taking into account the lead up, Nic Nat and the large fast deck at Subi, he was probably always going to struggle, even after a week without a game.

I don't think he needs to be dropped, I for one do not want to see him playing SANFL, I'd like to see him managed better so that we get maximum output from him. Being a stoppage/clearance specialist isn't enough in the modern game unless you're very damaging with your disposal, which he's not. And by that I don't mean effective, I mean getting the ball outside of the stoppage to someone who isn't under as much pressure as you are.

I'm so sick of replying to these fanciful analyses of why S Thompson is ruining our game, and our starts. They make for good stories but cannot be backed up by anything other than mere opinion. I don't GAF how slow or whatever, people think he is, he is indisputably one of our most valuable players, end of story. It's so fashionable to point the finger at Thompson because of his age and his perceived slowness, - that I understand. What I laugh at is that the facts and the statistics that prove the doubters wrong every time are simply ignored because they show nothing to support an opinion that is sadly growing legs among the sheep on this board.

 

[1970crow]

I'm so sick of replying to these fanciful analyses of why S Thompson is ruining our game, and our starts. They make for good stories but cannot be backed up by anything other than mere opinion. I don't GAF how slow or whatever, people think he is, he is indisputably one of our most valuable players, end of story. It's so fashionable to point the finger at Thompson because of his age and his perceived slowness, - that I understand. What I laugh at is that the facts and the statistics that prove the doubters wrong every time are simply ignored because they show nothing to support an opinion that is sadly growing legs among the sheep on this board.

It's a fact that he's getting less of his ball outside of stoppages. Can you comprehend what that means? It means that once the stoppage is over, he's not offering much else. Where do we continually get torched? In general play through the arcs. Fact! FFS mate, get over it, Thommo is declining, watch him, look at the stats. Remove the wet games and check his averages. It's happening right in front of you, but you continue to disbelieve it, I don't care. I posted the timing of his possessions from about 3 weeks ago. From memory he had 2 possessions to the 6 minute mark of the first quarter and backed that up with 1 touch to the 2 minute mark of the second. This is FACT, he struggles to impact the games early when the pace is on. What is fanciful is your view that he is the same Thommo of 3-4 years ago. Everyone's time comes and Thommo's is certainly visible upon the horizon. But I won't bother with you anymore, you refuse to see it and it's not worth the frustration.

 

[footy4ever]

It's a fact that he's getting less of his ball outside of stoppages. Can you comprehend what that means? It means that once the stoppage is over, he's not offering much else. Where do we continually get torched? In general play through the arcs. Fact! FFS mate, get over it, Thommo is declining, watch him, look at the stats. Remove the wet games and check his averages. It's happening right in front of you, but you continue to disbelieve it, I don't care. I posted the timing of his possessions from about 3 weeks ago. From memory he had 2 possessions to the 6 minute mark of the first quarter and backed that up with 1 touch to the 2 minute mark of the second. This is FACT, he struggles to impact the games early when the pace is on. What is fanciful is your view that he is the same Thommo of 3-4 years ago. Everyone's time comes and Thommo's is certainly visible upon the horizon. But I won't bother with you anymore, you refuse to see it and it's not worth the frustration.

Well it's a shame then that the coaches haven't woken up to it. Maybe you should send them a text.

 

[Jack is Back]

I agree that the AFC has a long history of playing our more experienced players too long. Stiffy, Porps and Truck are good examples.

Thommo is playing at a similar standard to his last 5 years, which were very good. He has played one below par game this season, if we give him the same opportunities as vB he will be collecting the age pension whilst lining up in the forward pocket.

I agree that you can't have too many slowish inside midfielders and for some crazy reason we have 3 very good inside midfielders (Thommo, CEY, Matty C) plus Jarryd Lyons who IMHO could be just as effective in this role. It is rare for one of the four players in the centre square to run down an opponent (unless their name is Nic-Nat) so those criticizing Thommo for not preventing the opposition's spread from the stoppage are on the wrong track. These guys need to hold the ball in tight if the opposition get their hands on it first but when was the last time that Danger (who is really,really fast) ran down an opposition onballer running away from a stoppage, particularly a centre square stoppage? Our problem is letting the opposition's outside midfielders run to dangerous spots without putting pressure on them. Gaff was strolling behind the stoppages waiting for a handball and then he was away. In the last quarter DMac the cooler was standing next to Gaff during a centre bounce. As the ump bounced the ball someone must have said something to him because he looked to his right and in an instant Gaff was gone.

West Coast have shown this year that it is a lot easier re-structuring your defence if you have an effective midfield. Why don't we try something different? Use Brodie Smith, Hendo and Dougie (even DMac) as outside midfielders (we are really missing Sloaney) and banish slower players from the wings. At various stages on Saturday we had vB and Wrighty "cooling" as outside mids and it just doesn't work.

 

[Red mist]

The last time Danger ran down an opposition on baller was Saturday night. In fact it was 2. Put his tooth through his lip and was missed off the field. Incredible stuff.

 

[Tex Support]

I always have a good chuckle at the Thommo bashing on here.

It always reminds me that even though I really don't know that much about footy, there's others out there who know way less.

 

[Red mist]

Both sides of the discussion about Thommo agree that he is a clearance machine and that he is still contributing. Only one side of the discussion is delving into the team mechanics of our midfield setup and looking to offer solutions to the current problems that we have. The improvement to our midfield setup and run and spread both offensively and defensively is what is important moving forward.

 

[footy4ever]

Both sides of the discussion about Thommo agree that he is a clearance machine and that he is still contributing. Only one side of the discussion is delving into the team mechanics of our midfield setup and looking to offer solutions to the current problems that we have. The improvement to our midfield setup and run and spread both offensively and defensively is what is important moving forward.

As I've posted before, quick, you'd better let the coaches know.

 

[Red mist]

As I've posted before, quick, you'd better let the coaches know.

But this is a discussion for Adelaide posters. Are we not to ask these questions? I don't see any reason why a discussion on the makeup of our midfield structure can't be addressed between us. Thommos position in midfield should be addressed and considered just as much as the rest of the midfield group. Debating on the midfield when he wasn't playing in the first couple of rounds and when he is there isn't wrong. I don't see how saying go and tell the coaches helps.

 

[1970crow]

I agree that the AFC has a long history of playing our more experienced players too long. Stiffy, Porps and Truck are good examples.

Thommo is playing at a similar standard to his last 5 years, which were very good. He has played one below par game this season, if we give him the same opportunities as vB he will be collecting the age pension whilst lining up in the forward pocket.

I agree that you can't have too many slowish inside midfielders and for some crazy reason we have 3 very good inside midfielders (Thommo, CEY, Matty C) plus Jarryd Lyons who IMHO could be just as effective in this role. It is rare for one of the four players in the centre square to run down an opponent (unless their name is Nic-Nat) so those criticizing Thommo for not preventing the opposition's spread from the stoppage are on the wrong track. These guys need to hold the ball in tight if the opposition get their hands on it first but when was the last time that Danger (who is really,really fast) ran down an opposition onballer running away from a stoppage, particularly a centre square stoppage? Our problem is letting the opposition's outside midfielders run to dangerous spots without putting pressure on them. Gaff was strolling behind the stoppages waiting for a handball and then he was away. In the last quarter DMac the cooler was standing next to Gaff during a centre bounce. As the ump bounced the ball someone must have said something to him because he looked to his right and in an instant Gaff was gone.

West Coast have shown this year that it is a lot easier re-structuring your defence if you have an effective midfield. Why don't we try something different? Use Brodie Smith, Hendo and Dougie (even DMac) as outside midfielders (we are really missing Sloaney) and banish slower players from the wings. At various stages on Saturday we had vB and Wrighty "cooling" as outside mids and it just doesn't work.

It's not just about the stoppage, it's also about the general field play. We get destroyed through the middle when we give up possession going forward. This isn't a scenario where we all get to re-set around the ruckmen and the umpire. We struggle severely to halt the oppositions transition through the middle. Apart from not being able to get clear and the tendency to have to give off to a player under pressure, Thommo's stoppage work is fine. However, there's a lot more to a game of football than what is going on at the stoppages. We win our share and have for the last few years, but we're not a very good football team. Our issue is the relative quality of ours compared to the opponents and the fact that we get badly beaten through the arcs. I cannot understand after we got through with the Sando "win the stoppage at all costs" system that we still isolate that area and pat ourselves on the back because our numbers stack up.

The primary issue I have with Thommo is that he's up to 1/3rd of his possessions as clearances. This has been steadily increasing from 16% over the last 5 years that stats are available. What it tells me is that whilst we continue to get smoked through the arc's, we have a player who is doing less in general field work and mostly moving from stoppage to stoppage. It's what I see when I watch him and it's borne out by the available (to me) statistics.

We won't improve if we don't sort out our defensive system in general play and reduce the effectiveness of our opponents clearances to something resembling ours. I don't think that Thommo is the kind of player we should be looking at to get up to speed in that area. Bicks has openly stated on radio that the coaching group has always known that Thommo had a weakness working hard backwards.

 

[1970crow]

Well it's a shame then that the coaches haven't woken up to it. Maybe you should send them a text.

So we're back to the infallible coaching and selection group again. Do you think that every decision that our football dept has made over the last few years has been 100% correct. Are you aware that Dmac has 3 more years to run on his contract and VB another full year. Did you hear about a little skirmish between us and the AFL regarding a current Sydney player. Do you remember Matt Rendell of the Adelaide Crows, or do you only know him from his Collingwood days. How about leaving Massie on Franklin or playing an injured Roo who lasted about 5 minutes. What about an injured Petrenko in a prelim final. These are just off the top of my head. There is nothing about our football dept that suggests that a decision is correct simply because it was made by them. What are you, an infant? (one of my favourite movie lines)

 

[EddieWalker]

I think both sides of the Thommo debate have some merit. Thommo continues to have a positive impact on our games in a lot of ways, but it can't be argued that we have been starting games well for a number of weeks now. It may just be coincidence that our fantastic start to the year occurred with Thommo not in the side, but it may not. Why don't we try starting the game with Thommo playing the mythical Matty Wright half forward role and see if that changes things. If we are no better we still have the option of throwing Thommo back in the guts, and hell he might even jag us a goal playing forward.

 

[Godallblighty]

As I've posted before, quick, you'd better let the coaches know.

I'm sure everyone will be watching with interest from now on to see whether your posts only ever agree with coaching decisions.

 

[fabs33]

I wanted to see if there was some statistical evidence of our weakness in outside run an spread and the two statistics I could think of were handball receives and uncontested possessions. Unfortunately I couldn't find any data on handball receives but I did learn that we have only two players in the top 100 for uncontested possessions per game; Laird at 56 and the injured Jaensch at 79.

 

[fabs33]

I think both sides of the Thommo debate have some merit. Thommo continues to have a positive impact on our games in a lot of ways, but it can't be argued that we have been starting games well for a number of weeks now. It may just be coincidence that our fantastic start to the year occurred with Thommo not in the side, but it may not. Why don't we try starting the game with Thommo playing the mythical Matty Wright half forward role and see if that changes things. If we are no better we still have the option of throwing Thommo back in the guts, and hell he might even jag us a goal playing forward.

So do I, but I'm not sure if I want to get involved.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I wanted to see if there was some statistical evidence of our weakness in outside run an spread and the two statistics I could think of were handball receives and uncontested possessions. Unfortunately I couldn't find any data on handball receives but I did learn that we have only two players in the top 100 for uncontested possessions per game; Laird at 56 and the injured Jaensch at 79.

The Jaensch and Smith injuries have really cost us badly.