Opinion Changes vs Hawks OUT: Ryan Cox IN: Deluca McCarthy

[Deathly]

Does anyone else feel kind of ripped off that Hawks have started their rebuild the same time as us after winning 3 flags in a row and will probably already easily have us covered here?
They still have some way to fall when they lose Hodge and Burgoyne but its going to be pretty galling to once again watch them ping it around cleanly while we bunch up and get picked apart by superior kicking.

They don't have a fast, play on attacking game-plan that we're trying to do with a younger side. Their leaders are more dominant than the ones in our side and their game-plan of kick to kick possession control compensates how their youngsters are really tracking.

They will be better this year and next year then they will be in 2019. They aren't going to be able to cover the experience that leaves and their horrible trading last year and potentially this year.

Short-term suggests we're in the same spot but we're ahead for sure.

 

[Joao]

Why?

Ross Lyon has consistently coached the lowest scoring team in the AFL the entire time he's been an AFL coach. Why would you back his opinion on how to build a forward line? Especially when it's basically the opposite to how every other coach in the AFL does it, and all those coaches manage to score more than Lyon?

What makes you think Lyon is right and everyone else is wrong? It's certainly not results on the board, because Lyon has an abysmal record when it comes to coaching teams in how to kick goals.

Our forward line was dysfunctional in 2013 and it's still dysfunctional now. The only time in the past 5 years our forward line was any good was when we had Pavlich, Taberner and Zac Clarke all playing in the same forward line.

On the weekend we kicked 5 goals from over 50 forward entires. That is pathetic by any measure.

The first part is hyperbole. Ross' teams are low scoring but saying the "lowest" is just sensationalising. Also watch Carlton if you think Ross is the most defensive.

It is not a case of "Lyon is right and everyone else is wrong". As someone earlier in this thread said, its not binary. There are literally infinite different ways to coach a team.

We butchered at least 8 goals on the weekend through missing sodas or the bloke standing on his own in the F50. We also have no forwards (outside of Sonny) who can actually relied upon to kick goals.

Finally, have you seriously not noticed the difference in our game style this year? Especially once we got Ryan, Blakely and Weller all together in the backline? We take it on WAY more than we used to. This is a direct example of Ross adjusting the gameplan to be more attacking. I know we were at once stage the highest corridor useage team. This will take time and probably 1-2 more drafts/trade periods of bringing in actual forwards (not just mids played there) before it comes off.

It is not going to be perfect straight away or it was never a rebuild in the first place.

 

[Dockernut]

Does anyone else feel kind of ripped off that Hawks have started their rebuild the same time as us after winning 3 flags in a row and will probably already easily have us covered here?
They still have some way to fall when they lose Hodge and Burgoyne but its going to be pretty galling to once again watch them ping it around cleanly while we bunch up and get picked apart by superior kicking.

Yeah I think this every time I watch them play these days. Don't even reckon the Hodge/Burgoyne departures will hurt them that much in a draft or two.

 

[Cobbler]

Does anyone else feel kind of ripped off that Hawks have started their rebuild the same time as us after winning 3 flags in a row and will probably already easily have us covered here?
They still have some way to fall when they lose Hodge and Burgoyne but its going to be pretty galling to once again watch them ping it around cleanly while we bunch up and get picked apart by superior kicking.

The major difference is their youngsters are already 22-23 and done a few years in VFL. Most of ours are getting exposed super early.

To make a fair comparison you'd need to see where our guys are in say 2 years and compare to Hawks of this year if that makes sense. In a true age v age comparison.

 

[ydraw]

The first part is hyperbole. Ross' teams are low scoring but saying the "lowest" is just sensationalising. Also watch Carlton if you think Ross is the most defensive.

It is not a case of "Lyon is right and everyone else is wrong". As someone earlier in this thread said, its not binary. There are literally infinite different ways to coach a team.

In that case you've gotta wonder why then that every other team still opts to go for the traditional structure with 2 key forwards. That's an amazing coincidence if there are literally infinite ways to do it.

 

[salim malik]

Rebuild or not....hard to tell given that we've technically been rebuilding since after the Carlton game last year, we have no forward structure to speak of and if you're happy with mediocrity in that regard, that is your prerogative but **** me, some of us would actually like to see some semblance of a forward structure with integrity of selection which once again has been compromised.

By the by, if you're truly happy with mediocrity (seems like you are) then that says more about you than people who actually demand excellence or some sort of progress towards it.

Any poster who uses that term happy with mediocrity hasn't got a clue . Its the biggest cop out term on BF and is used by total losers .

 

[Demons09]

Why are posters melting over Taberner in this thread , there's a melt thread and a Taberner thread which is mind blowing that it's got to 64 pages obviously Ross doesn't rate him and he'll probably be delisted get over it.

 

[muzzington]

This Deluca McCarthy sounds like a well-rounded player, good in.

 

[ydraw]

Why are posters melting over Taberner in this thread , there's a melt thread and a Taberner thread which is mind blowing that it's got to 64 pages obviously Ross doesn't rate him and he'll probably be delisted get over it.

It's not just about Taberner and that would be abundantly clear if you'd read the posts you're complaining about.

It's about our complete unwillingness to play a proper forward structure. We're going into this game with no key forwards and no resting ruck.

 

[salim malik]

Does anyone else feel kind of ripped off that Hawks have started their rebuild the same time as us after winning 3 flags in a row and will probably already easily have us covered here?
They still have some way to fall when they lose Hodge and Burgoyne but its going to be pretty galling to once again watch them ping it around cleanly while we bunch up and get picked apart by superior kicking.

You haven't noticed ladder positions or age and experience in the squads.

 

[Kram]

You seem to have trouble with basic comprehension.

That game wasn't a few weeks back was it?

Should I use smaller words for you?

Huh you make the statement that Harvey had a better balanced game plan, and then you don't want hear examples of his coaching?

 

[scon]

Josh dropped for breaking club rules about leaking selection info.

Yep. If you run a loose club, you end up with players taking pictures of each other's penises and putting them on the internet.

Lyon told them to do it.

 

[imperial_oz]

Huh you make the statement that Harvey had a better balanced game plan, and then you don't want hear examples of his coaching?

No, I was just pointing out to you that you were avoiding holding Lyon's efforts to account. I mentioned 'a few weeks ago' and you jumped to a game that about 5 years ago instead of addressing what I said. Thats pretty week really.

We could always raise the matter of the last derby that we lost in exactly the same way we lost the first one. Lyon certainly doesn't learn from his mistakes does he

 

[Joao]

I don't need KPIs to watch a can't be bothered Kersten look second rate constantly. With Mayne you could see his defensive effort, similar to Grey and many others. Hell even Dawson I could see his value with his spoils and ability to hold the play up.

Kersten? I ain't seeing a thing. Doesn't lead up, doesn't provide a contest, often metres away from his man, defensive pressure non existant, gives up on second efforts. These are things everyone of us supporters can see. I'm not exaggerating when I highlight these and even the most diehard Kersten fan would agree this is Kersten.

Taberner? Yeah ok his last AFL outing was beyond deplorable and he was subsequently dropped. The only thing I can imagine he isn't doing is competing in the ruck. I didn't see the game but listened on the radio and his name was everywhere, but they did highlight him giving away free kicks in the ruck and if that's the specific thing we're looking for massive improvement in to justify his inclusion, then I guess I can say - OK that area needs work.

But Kersten? Yeah nah he's been deplorable for many weeks now and should also be dropped if the match committee were providing a consistent line.

He could be getting to the right spots, blocking and doing off the ball stuff that supporters generally don't see or rate. I don't personally know because living in QLD I don't see us live very often.

Look, I don't think Kersten is a world beater but he has some desirable attributes. He has still only played ~50 games and is new to the club. We are rebuilding and he really has no position competition since he and Cam are the only 2nd/3rd talls on the list. Just need to wait it out. He is not keeping out a youngster and may come good with more experience. He also might benefit with someone like Tabs coming in if he can tick whatever box he is missing.

Re Tabs: Aside from dropping sitters, I reckon it could be really simple stuff. I actually thought his ruck work was serviceable. What he has always seemed to lack as a big bloke is physicality and presence. I suspect his directives are focused around that. Putting himself on the line for the team. Didn't a Peel watcher comment on Roger giving him a half time spray last weekend for exactly that?

 

[ydraw]

We could always raise the matter of the last derby that we lost in exactly the same way we lost the first one. Lyon certainly doesn't learn from his mistakes does he

No to mention the exact same way we lost the 2013 gf.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Really makes you wonder what Kersten did during the 6 touches he had in his 1 WAFL game to obliterate the reason he was dropped.

Kicking more goals than Taberner would be my guess.

 

[Allikat]

Preview thread is up! Changes melts stay in here, general game discussion to the other thread
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/round-18-freo-v-hawks-subi-5-40pm.1171787/

 

[ydraw]

Look, I don't think Kersten is a world beater but he has some desirable attributes.

Such as?

 

[ydraw]

He is not keeping out a youngster a

Taberner is a youngster. Collins is a youngster. Brennan Cox is a youngster.

 

[ydraw]

Re Tabs: Aside from dropping sitters, I reckon it could be really simple stuff. I actually thought his ruck work was serviceable. What he has always seemed to lack as a big bloke is physicality and presence. I suspect his directives are focused around that. Putting himself on the line for the team. Didn't a Peel watcher comment on Roger giving him a half time spray last weekend for exactly that?

Kersten or McCarthy aren't exactly known for their physicality either. Seems a bit rich to judge Taberner by that alone but not those 2.

 

[imperial_oz]

Kicking more goals than Taberner would be my guess.

Yes he did what he does at AFL level. Got 2 goals from a massive 6 disposals.

You'd have to reward 6 disposals every day of the week. Thats Kersten. Goes missing for 90% of the game, gets a goal at the end and everyone goes crazy. You need to look beyond that. Kersten just isn't AFL quality for all of Lyon's bullshit.

 

[rgauci]

word on the street, Deluca is named.

Is his ankle 100%? needs to put his best foot forward for the rest of the year.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

 

[Joao]

If their metrics rate Kersten ahead of Taberner then their metrics are wrong. I don't really care what they are.

I am not sure how you can judge something when you don't even know what it is? Seriously that makes no sense.

Such as?

When he takes a mark inside the F50 it generally sails through the big sticks. Also when the delivery is reasonable+ is able to get separation on a lead.

Taberner is a youngster. Collins is a youngster. Brennan Cox is a youngster.

Come on. Seriously? There are lengthy Tabs discussions already in this thread.

Collins is a backman. If he goes forward for Peel and does well come back then. Brennan would be in the side if not for the drink and is in no way being kept out by Kersten.

 

[ydraw]

When he takes a mark inside the F50 it generally sails through the big sticks. Also when the delivery is reasonable+ is able to get separation on a lead.

I will grant you that Kersten is a very nice kick. But he's no Taberner (who has kicked 39.13 this year in AFL and WAFL combined).