Changes vs Saints Round 20

[Mantis Toboggan]

I completely agree with you that JJ is a front runner.

I’m struggling to think of one good game he’s played since 2016.

The thing is though, teams actually need front runners. In the same way people are derisive of outside/receiving players, they don’t realize that the team needs them - you can’t have a Daniel Cross at the bottom of the pack fishing the ball out to another Daniel Cross. In the same way, you need the front runners to be shining when the tide changes in our favor.

Front runners like JJ stick out like a sore thumb when the team sucks like we do at the moment but whenever we come good again JJ’s form will go up again, guaranteed.

On the other players you mentioned:

Biggs - Agreed have been very disappointed with him. I didn’t think he was too bad in 2017 but this year he’s been awful in the games he’s played. It’s unfortunate as he was a real hero in 2016 - we all remember that bit of play in the GF - but given his form this year, not sure what the club will do with him.

Libba - Was well down to say the least in 2017, but his injury in Round 1 was a disaster for us. I’m not sure how much difference he would have made this year if he hadn’t got injured, but we’d all prefer him out there obviously.

Stringer - Haven’t seen a lot of Essendon this year but from what I have seen he’s more or less the same as 2017 for us - a few good moments and games followed by even more moments of mediocrity and poor efforts. I tend to think the club made the right call in getting rid of him.

Dunkley - I don’t think he’s had too bad a season this year. He’s not in the category of Bont, Macrae, Toby and Ed in players that have performed for us this year but he has been ok. His game against Port was much better.

It doesn’t matter where you play or how talented you are, if you don’t show effort or desire then you deserve some grief.

Barely had a good game in two years. I don’t know how people can defend him.

 

[Leon]

It doesn’t matter where you play or how talented you are, if you don’t show effort or desire then you deserve some grief.

Barely had a good game in two years. I don’t know how people can defend him.

Not defending him as such, he deserves to be criticized.

Just saying that front runners are useful for good sides and stick out like sore thumbs in bad sides. He is sticking out at the moment big time, obviously.

 

[Proffessor]

When so much is going wrong, sometimes it is hard to see where the primary fault lies.

The recent criticism of JJ reminds me of the criticism directed at Adam Cooney during his last season with the Dogs.

Now as then, it is misplaced.

Cooney was criticised for not running enough defensively, the problem that many failed to see was that we had a team full of players who only ran defensively, and Coons was pretty much the one player at the time who would run hard offensively, and he would burn often himself out doing so. With his dickie knee he didn't have a lot left in the tank to run back the other way.

Our problem wasn't that we had 21 defensive runners instead of 22, it was that we had only 1 offensive runner and he could only do it for about half a game.

JJ isn't the current problem, the fact that we have more passengers than you can fit in a maxi taxi is our problem.

Last week, Lynch, Richards, Schache and Green had a total of just 25 possessions and 5 marks between them.
Each one of them has strong potential, but they all produced unsatisfactory performances.

They weren't alone of course, but none of them have been dropped for this week, I doubt such action was seriously considered.

We have just brought Roarke Smith back into the team. This season he averages 12.9 disposals (mainly handballs), 2.1 marks, 0 goals, 0.1 goal assists, and 2.2 clangers per game. A premiership player who was far from the worst on the ground last week was dropped again to accommodate his re-inclusion.

Need a scape goat? Leave JJ alone and look at the selection committee.

 

[dogwatch]

I completely agree with you that JJ is a front runner.

I’m struggling to think of one good game he’s played since 2016.

...

He was generally seen as our best player in the Rd 16 game against Hawthorn (32 possessions). Not a lot this year apart from that though.

 

[lachy]

So if they actually contribute a reasonable amount, they get credit for the win, but if they do bugger all as usual then the senior players cop the blame?

Sounds typical.

Nah more a reflection of where we are this season. I have not blamed the senior group as a whole. Most of the better ones have been injured or carried am injury.

Other than a couple who have seriously under performed, the majority of senior players have not had a run at it

 

[SCRAY72]

Not defending him as such, he deserves to be criticized.

Just saying that front runners are useful for good sides and stick out like sore thumbs in bad sides. He is sticking out at the moment big time, obviously.

He is being paid good money. He needs to make a contribution even when the team is losing.

 

[Proffessor]

Nah more a reflection of where we are this season. I have not blamed the senior group as a whole. Most of the better ones have been injured or carried am injury.

Other than a couple who have seriously under performed, the majority of senior players have not had a run at it

Morning Lachy,

I'm not suggesting that you were blaming the senior players. My post is really about bringing out the consistent bias towards youth on this board, our club, and the whole football community. Your post showed the positive spin that flows whenever young players perform well. My recent posting has been highlight what happens when they don't perform well, which is that senior players get the blame.

I think that our club's preferential treatment towards young players is a serious impediment towards achieving consistent success.

It is hard to overcome because it is a bias which is encouraged from many sectors and one that is rarely challenged.

 

[mcgleereturns]

I completely agree with you that JJ is a front runner.

I’m struggling to think of one good game he’s played since 2016.

The thing is though, teams actually need front runners. In the same way people are derisive of outside/receiving players, they don’t realize that the team needs them - you can’t have a Daniel Cross at the bottom of the pack fishing the ball out to another Daniel Cross. In the same way, you need the front runners to be shining when the tide changes in our favor.

Front runners like JJ stick out like a sore thumb when the team sucks like we do at the moment but whenever we come good again JJ’s form will go up again, guaranteed.

Too be honest I can’t think of any stand outs although that first half against Hawks a few back was pretty front running good.

Having said that, while I was flabbergasted by the result, the guy was one point away from a B&F last year so there is clearly a wide chasm between the opinions of BF and the Western Bulldogs coaching staff. So while he’s become the poster boy of blame since 2016 NS, probably because he is the anti-Jong/Honey, it would be quite comical if he knocks off Macrae and Maclean in the B&F this year to cement a rift between the opinions of the BF supporter and the club. We’re probably missing something in the mind of Bevo.


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[mcgleereturns]

Morning Lachy,

I'm not suggesting that you were blaming the senior players. My post is really about bringing out the consistent bias towards youth on this board, our club, and the whole football community. Your post showed the positive spin that flows whenever young players perform well. My recent posting has been highlight what happens when they don't perform well, which is that senior players get the blame.

I think that our club's preferential treatment towards young players is a serious impediment towards achieving consistent success.

It is hard to overcome because it is a bias which is encouraged from many sectors and one that is rarely challenged.

A valid opinion but other than Fletch and BTC which senior players have we had to replace underperforming young players this year anyway? Every time Biggs comes back he’s failed. Other than that our other missing seniors have missed massive chunks through injury so the young have to play. Yes we tend not to criticise them but what’s the point? They’re in the side for both opportunity AND necessity. Not all quite ready but the senior blokes have proved with a premiership they are so the criticism goes towards them. Bagging a Lipinski or a Smith for lack of performance with no other choices seems pointless.


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[TedDougChris]

A valid opinion but other than Fletch and BTC which senior players have we had to replace underperforming young players this year anyway? Every time Biggs comes back he’s failed. Other than that our other missing seniors have missed massive chunks through injury so the young have to play. Yes we tend not to criticise them but what’s the point? They’re in the side for both opportunity AND necessity. Not all quite ready but the senior blokes have proved with a premiership they are so the criticism goes towards them. Bagging a Lipinski or a Smith for lack of performance with no other choices seems pointless.


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In an ideal world, players like Lipinski and Fergus are probably alternating, keeping the pressure on each other - unless both have banged the door down.

But we don’t have that luxury, hope they aren’t too burnt out by it....

 

[Testekill]

A valid opinion but other than Fletch and BTC which senior players have we had to replace underperforming young players this year anyway? Every time Biggs comes back he’s failed. Other than that our other missing seniors have missed massive chunks through injury so the young have to play. Yes we tend not to criticise them but what’s the point? They’re in the side for both opportunity AND necessity. Not all quite ready but the senior blokes have proved with a premiership they are so the criticism goes towards them. Bagging a Lipinski or a Smith for lack of performance with no other choices seems pointless.


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Wood has been well down when he has played this year.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Jong was part of a group put through a punishing session in Ballarat last week on an adjoining oval, punishing.

They were naked?

 

[Yojimbo]

They were naked?

Not quite that punishing, more the duration of the session.

 

[Pugz89]

Don’t really understand how English hasn’t been picked. More games into him the better

Probably wary of burning the kid out. He has been good but there needs to be a bit of a balance. I'd hope he gets one or two more games but most guys have had to play two or three in vfl before returning to seniors after injury.

 

[dogwatch]

... it would be quite comical if he knocks off Macrae and Maclean in the B&F this year to cement a rift between the opinions of the BF supporter and the club. We’re probably missing something in the mind of Bevo.

This sums up about half our ongoing debates on this board. Despite the painful, halting and repetitious Bevo's Brief vids we rarely get a genuine insight into his tactical thinking, his opinion of players and coaches on his staff or his strategic direction. Sure it's understandable, but it's frustrating as hell to the headscratching fans looking on.

That cuppa coffee might be worth $500 after all ... if you could get him to open up.