Autopsy Collingwood defeats Geelong by 24 points at the MCG.

[BlightysCats]

In 2005 they beat us by about 50 points and in 2006 they beat us by 102 points .
We only beat them by only 5 points in the 07 prelim when we won our other 2 finals by over 100 points .We than lost by 86 points in 2008.
They also easily had our measure late in 2010 and lead us by 81 points early in the 3rd quarter of the 2010 prelim .

We have had some good wins over them over the past 10 years but these bad losses have been an on and off thing back when Thompson was coach.

Thompson's irrelevant, Bucks has a 5 from 7 record against Scott.

 

[BlightysCats]

Sorry they kicked 4 over 2 whole quarters... Still a good defensive job there... We kicked 6.7. It should have been a lot tighter on the scoreboard than what it was @ 3/4 time, 13 scoring shots to 6 over the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Even if we went 8.5 we are only 17 points behind at the last change, kick the first 3 of that qtr as we did and we are in front. That is why conversion is so so crucial!

I would've thought not giving up runs of 7 goals in a row might be a little more crucial than conversion.

 

[BlightysCats]

Fair point to make , it's either that or a very poor work rate starting with the mids.
If we win the ball consistently between the arcs and keep it in F50 we will be very hard to beat , turn it over or not win clearances/contests we will struggle
Our set up has got us to 7:2 , let's hope it holds up for the balance of the season - a 5% improvement in goal kicking conversion will also assist !

Not criticising our set up as it's the only card we have to play with our slow defence, it's just obvious that it has some real holes in it and can be horribly exposed, and when it is, because we can't risk an end to end style footy game, we really have no other set ups we seem to be able to go to.

 

[romeohwho]

I would've thought not giving up runs of 7 goals in a row might be a little more crucial than conversion.

Ideally yep, but we got back almost on level pegging and if we had kicked well, we run out likely winners-so the 7 goals would be a 10 minute exaggeration in context of that game. A pretty dreadful aberration admittedly, but not insurmountable in today's game. And we stopped the Pies after that. Seem to recall hauling the Hawks back in similar situation a few years back. Just took our chances that day. Exciting.
Watching the replay I didn't for a minute think, crikey the Pies are just too good, whereas I have seen several games in the last few years where I thought the other team are just too good for us. I knew we were down on form and energy and that could be addressed. Don't think its as simple as they had a set up that exposed us. Do you actually think we played our best footy? That our players brought their best game? Pies brought their best and that was enough when we were down in the middle. Its all about the mids.

 

[you pick one]

It's just so important you nail those early chances,do that and it might have been us that blew out to a 7 goal first quarter lead.

 

[lionbear]

The positive is, there has been no cracks covered up from Saturday, as much as it would have been great t come back and get the 4 points, we now can issue the issues in the light of day and get them fixed hopefully, rounds 8 to 11 can really set up the season.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Ideally yep, but we got back almost on level pegging and if we had kicked well, we run out likely winners-so the 7 goals would be a 10 minute exaggeration in context of that game. A pretty dreadful aberration admittedly, but not insurmountable in today's game. And we stopped the Pies after that. Seem to recall hauling the Hawks back in similar situation a few years back. Just took our chances that day. Exciting.
Watching the replay I didn't for a minute think, crikey the Pies are just too good, whereas I have seen several games in the last few years where I thought the other team are just too good for us. I knew we were down on form and energy and that could be addressed. Don't think its as simple as they had a set up that exposed us. Do you actually think we played our best footy? That our players brought their best game? Pies brought their best and that was enough when we were down in the middle. Its all about the mids.

When did the Hawks have a 7-goal lead over us? I remember we did it to them in the first quarter in 2012 and they were able to pull themselves back in front.

 

[BlightysCats]

Ideally yep, but we got back almost on level pegging and if we had kicked well, we run out likely winners-so the 7 goals would be a 10 minute exaggeration in context of that game. A pretty dreadful aberration admittedly, but not insurmountable in today's game. And we stopped the Pies after that. Seem to recall hauling the Hawks back in similar situation a few years back. Just took our chances that day. Exciting.
Watching the replay I didn't for a minute think, crikey the Pies are just too good, whereas I have seen several games in the last few years where I thought the other team are just too good for us. I knew we were down on form and energy and that could be addressed. Don't think its as simple as they had a set up that exposed us. Do you actually think we played our best footy? That our players brought their best game? Pies brought their best and that was enough when we were down in the middle. Its all about the mids.

I don't think we played to our best but there are structural issues we have and Scott hasn't been able to arrest runs of goals against us for years now. Hence why I don't rate him as a match day coach.

 

[romeohwho]

I don't think we played to our best but there are structural issues we have and Scott hasn't been able to arrest runs of goals against us for years now. Hence why I don't rate him as a match day coach.

Didn't he do things to arrest the run of goals on Saturday? We outscored them after the first quarter-what does that tell you?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Ok will have a trawl later-I seem to recall sitting at the G getting a bath in the first quarter, a daytime match, we came home hard and I reckon we got them!

I recall a couple where they had a good run against us early but not as bad as the Collingwood game. I think there was one where they kicked 5 straight in the first quarter, but then we kicked the last couple of the quarter.

 

[romeohwho]

When did the Hawks have a 7-goal lead over us? I remember we did it to them in the first quarter in 2012 and they were able to pull themselves back in front.

Haha there you go- other way around-I even have a half full memory! Lucky you don't and can set me straight.
We still won though didn't we!

 

[BlightysCats]

Didn't he do things to arrest the run of goals on Saturday? We outscored them after the first quarter-what does that tell you?

What that tells me is if we didn't have 7 goals in a row scored against us in the first half hour of the match we could've actually won. When things aren't working you can't just count on a break before changing things, you need to actually make moves during qtrs to arrest back momentum, what did Scott do before qtr time to even attempt to change things?

 

[you pick one]

Didn't he do things to arrest the run of goals on Saturday? We outscored them after the first quarter-what does that tell you?

To late.

 

[catempire]

Didn't he do things to arrest the run of goals on Saturday? We outscored them after the first quarter-what does that tell you?

Simon Lloyd is a magician.

 

[romeohwho]

What that tells me is if we didn't have 7 goals in a row scored against us in the first half hour of the match we could've actually won. When things aren't working you can't just count on a break before changing things, you need to actually make moves during qtrs to arrest back momentum, what did Scott do before qtr time to even attempt to change things?

Yep, you have to address it but funnily enough that run on only went for about 12 mins, and it just wasn't that obviously a run on to me. Bizarre. Maybe he hoped our mids could get a kick? He could have put someone on Crisp.Yep, Scott should have done something, and he did pretty quickly-too late. But it was a combination of things wasn't it. Pies were great.
I don't want to see it happen again, but am honestly not worried. Am annoyed about that loss but not nearly as concerned as you are. Its fixable for mine-mids get the ball.Different story. Why do you think our defence has been so good this year?( well a few reasons but mainly because we are winning in the middle)

 

[romeohwho]

Simon Lloyd is a magician.

That is very witty.

 

[longtimecat]

Is it just me, or are we starting games without our best mid field in the guts. I haven't checked the replay, but I would have Selwood, Dangerfield and Guthrie or Blits at the starting bounce every week. I was always taught when boxing to never give a sucker an even chance.

 

[Bobby_]

The positive is, there has been no cracks covered up from Saturday, as much as it would have been great t come back and get the 4 points, we now can issue the issues in the light of day and get them fixed hopefully, rounds 8 to 11 can really set up the season.

Collingwood did the same thing to us in the practice match this year. They kicked 11 goals in the third quarter.
It's happened a few times since then, we cannot stop a run on.
Some teams have literally kicked 5 straight goals.

This is not a relatively new problem either. It's been happening since 2013. It is a game style issue, not a personnel issue.

 

[Cats408]

Have we ever had a worse loss in terms of where both teams were situated on the ladder in recent years? I guess the Brisbane one in 2013 comes to mind but apart from that we don't lose often to teams outside the 8 often. That's what I'm disappointed about, if it had have been a decent team fair enough buy not Collingwood....amazing how we could allow them to outplay us so easily. A bit of a bogey team for us I reckon.

 

[Bobby_]

Believe it or not but Carlton have troubled us as well.
Even when we were winning flags, Carlton beat us fairly convincingly at one stage.
You look back at some of our recent meeting:

2 point win
12 point win
16 point win
5 point win (winning goal in the final minute)
6 point win
77 point win

It is why people demanding/expecting a massacre may be slightly disappointed again.

 

[you pick one]

Collingwood did the same thing to us in the practice match this year. They kicked 11 goals in the third quarter.
It's happened a few times since then, we cannot stop a run on.
Some teams have literally kicked 5 straight goals.

This is not a relatively new problem either. It's been happening since 2013. It is a game style issue, not a personnel issue.

I totally agree with everything up to the bolded and then I see it in reverse,I believe we are a team of front running forwards with no ability to go back and help stem the tide when thing are not going our way,Hawkins,Menzel,Kersten.It's just not their go.We have backs who can go forward but not forwards who can go back.

 

[Bobby_]

I totally agree with everything up to the bolded and then I see it in reverse,I believe we are a team of front running forwards with no ability to go back and help stem the tide when thing are not going our way,Hawkins,Menzel,Kersten.It's just not their go.We have backs who can go forward but not forwards who can go back.

Henderson and Stanley are no different either. They are not smash and bang types of players. Our list is littered with this kind of problem.
The only bloke who will always, and I mean always, see two defenders in his path and be prepared to run at them at full speed no matter the consequences is Mitch Clark. Unfortunately his body is all but cooked.
Josh Walker liked to bust open packs but he wasn't given the time to develop his game.
Mitch Brown was like Shane Kersten.

Funnily enough, our smaller types in Menzel & McCarthy bust open more packs than what Hawkins does because they have a reckless abandon (freedom) to jump. And they jump with plenty of momentum.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Yes

Other posts on Lions and Cats boards explaining the decision.

I must say I do enjoy your contributions, so welcome.

 

[TEDDY24INC]

I would've thought not giving up runs of 7 goals in a row might be a little more crucial than conversion.

If u read the context its in spite of this...

 

[SJ]

My Monday lunchtime self-flagellation... analysing the first quarter debacle…

Geelong is probably ahead in general play for the first 5-10 minutes with some repeat inside 50s and a few set shots/good chances at goal coming to nothing.

14:13 remaining in first quarter – Motlop misses a snap on his left, scores 0.2.2 all.

Reid kicks out long inside the point of the centre square. Collingwood targets are Cox and Grundy (opposed by Henderson and Enright (WTF?)). Cox roves the spilled mark (WTF?) and handballs to an unmanned De Goey (WTF?) running by. De Goey kicks long inside 50 where Ruggles is opposed to Fasolo. Fasolo collects just ahead of Ruggles and shovels the ball backwards to White who fumbles the ball forward (great chase by Mackie to prevent open goal) and somehow manages to get a boot to ball just ahead of Taylor. Conclusion: sloppy manning up/zone, some luck for White.

11:40 remaining in first quarter – Kersten misses a regulation snap from pocket, scores 0.3.3 to 1.2.8.

Howe kicks out short finding Pendlebury who again kicks short finding Varcoe on D50. Varcoe finds Reid with another short pass. Reid kicks on the 45 angle inside the centre square finding Frost (NB. This was the key possession as Geelong’s zone had moved toward the members wing and this kick left the zone out of position). Frost kicks to Howe laterally who kicks short to Smith (again just inside centre square) who gives the handball to Howe running by who kicks long to an even numbered contest just inside Collingwood’s F50. The ball spills and Caddy picks up, is tackled straight away, the release handball goes straight to Pendlebury who snaps a right foot goal from 45m out (WTF?). Conclusion: good patience by Collingwood to work the ball out of D50 then a fair amount of luck inside 50 to convert the chance.

9:41 remaining in first quarter – Geelong has had possession in its forward half 61-39% but trails by 11 points.

Treloar misses a running shot at goal. Enright kicks out long to an even numbered contest at half back. Ball spills over the boundary line. At throw in, no clear possession. Caddy collects on boundary line and attempts to handball back inside to Stanley but Crisp intercepts. A quick chain of handballs (not especially clean, but effective) ends with Crisp who finds Fasolo 30m out from goal. Fasolo converts. Conclusion: Pies’ willingness to run the ball and use handball in contrast to Geelong’s lethargy.

8:30 remaining. Scores 21-3. Collingwood has had six of past 10 inside 50s (i50s now 9-all after Geelong led 9-5 earlier). Geelong leads hitouts 7-3 and clearances 5-4.

Ball up 20m from Collingwood’s goal. Crisp goes 3rd man up and hits it down Cox’s throat who handballs to Fasolo who has run goal side of the pack unmarked (Ruggles is his man) and he snaps an easy goal. Conclusion: very poor from Ruggles to lose his man in this position.

6:00 remaining. Scores 27-3.

Ball sent deep inside Geelong’s F50. Pendlebury gathers in the middle of four Geelong forwards and handballs out to an unmarked Crisp (story of the quarter so far – Crisp showing signs of leather poisoning). Crisp kicks to Moore who is spoiled by Bartel. Bews over-commits the contest and doesn’t affect opponent or ball and the ball gets behind him. Moore recovers like a cat and handballs to a teammate under intense pressure who just blindly flicks the ball over his head toward goal. Varcoe runs on to it, beats Ruggles for pace and steams toward goal but misses.

3:45 remaining. Scores 28-3. Collingwood now leads time in forward half 53-47. Geelong hasn’t looked like scoring for 15 minutes. Disposal efficiency Coll 76% Geel 65%.

Throw-in on the wing. Collingwood gathers the ground ball and a chain of handballs (Crisp involved again) ends with Grundy who checksides inside the centre square and its marked by Henderson (terrible kick by Grundy). Henderson goes to kick, umpire doesn’t play on and Fasolo tackles him from inside the protected area, no 50m penalty. Henderson’s under pressure kick goes straight to Collingwood at half back. Howe finds Sidebottom who finds White at half forward. White chips inside to Adams who kicks long inside 50m, GHS goes back with the flight and effects a great spoil to prevent Blair marking 25m out from goal. Menzel blazes away coming out of D50 and turns it over to Reid. Reid finds Pendlebury unmarked on the wing (WTF) who kicks inside to Treloar who is unmarked 50m out straight in front and he plays on and kicks a straightforward goal. Conclusion: Henderson unlucky not to be having a shot for goal but Geelong’s panicked ball movement is in stark contrast to Collingwood’s patient short kicking and working hard to find space.

2:46 remaining. Scores 34-3.

Crisp gets clearance again (WTF). Henderson gathers at half back and is poor in conceding HTB. White goes inside 50m but Geelong clears, albeit under immense pressure. Henderson blasts ball forward and Stanley has found himself goal-side of Reid. The ball sits for him and he runs onto it. Unfathomably, he takes a few steps and bounces it allowing Reid to run him down from behind. Shortly afterwards, Collingwood wins the ball on the wing after Bews kicks blindly forward. Pendlebury finds Crisp running free in the middle (Guthrie chasing tail) who kicks the goal from 50m after a bounce. Conclusion: So poor from Stanley – two goal turnaround. Collingwood’s mids much more willing to move the ball quickly by hand and work hard into space.

1:08 remaining. Scores 40-3. Centre clearances 4-0 Collingwood’s way.

Sidebottom gets the decisive clearance from the middle to make it 5-0. Behind rushed.

Enright kicks out with 0:36 on the clock. It’s a good option long to half back where we have a 4 on 3. Blicavs takes a good mark but an incredibly soft in the back free is paid to Blair as he flings himself forward at the slightest contact. Shortly after, Crisp (FFS!) tumbles a kick forward and it finds White 15m out who converts. Conclusion: shocking umpiring and a good dose of luck from Collingwood finding a mark from a scrambled kick forward but FFS WHO IS ON CRISP?!?!

Quarter time 47-3.

Overall impression: Geelong smashed in the midfield with Crisp, Sidebottom and Pendlebury running riot and PFD, Selwood and Guthrie very quiet. Collingwood working hard into space and willing to hit up short targets and overlap handball. Geelong in contrast was very stagnant and reactive.

Quite a few times our forward press got penetrated pretty easily, which has been rare this year.