Oppo Camp Other Club News/General Discussion

[Vicky Park]

You could see what he was trying to achieve, delivery was a bit of an issue, lost a little in translation.

The impact to the head has longer term issues, why don’t we take more time to assess like we do for a hamstring. I think that’s all he needed to say.

Problem is a hamstring is pretty much a known quantity straight away, a head can be delayed but you can also have head knock and be totally fine. Head knocks can also have a cumulative effect over time

Players wave the trainer away all the time when he comes out due to them limping briefly after an incident, so his point didn't really make sense.

One of the issues with concussions is that they really don't know what damage is done - even from a scan. Such a tough area.

I agree that Lyon’s analogy was clunky. But his point still stands in my view.

Of interest in the discussion last night, was the point made about some clubs resisting the introduction of a neutral and independent ‘concussion’ doctor, to step in when these things happen. The resistance or reluctance being based on a neutral doctor not ‘knowing’ the affected player, and therefore not being able to properly assess the player.

I guess there is some validity to that point, but geez it again emphasises the complexity around this issue.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I thought Lyon made a fair point. Made sense to me.

Yeah me too lol

Not sure why the vitriol

Seems a LOT of people missed the point

 

[sr36]

I agree that Lyon’s analogy was clunky. But his point still stands in my view.

Of interest in the discussion last night, was the point made about some clubs resisting the introduction of a neutral and independent ‘concussion’ doctor, to step in when these things happen. The resistance or reluctance being based on a neutral doctor not ‘knowing’ the affected player, and therefore not being able to properly assess the player.

I guess there is some validity to that point, but geez it again emphasises the complexity around this issue.

There's not going to be a great solution until technology or other means can detect damage to the brain better. However we've come a long way since there was no such thing as an injury above the shoulders.

One of the issues is that it's going to get worse during finals. What's the chance that Cameron would have gone into the protocols if Geelong were about to play a prelim?

 

[sr36]

Yeah me too lol

Not sure why the vitriol

Seems a LOT of people missed the point

His analogy was a load of rubbish. Players don't get taken off for an assessment every time they get up from a contest with a limp. Players try to play on and let the medicos know if they're not right. Mihocek just played half a game with a hamstring strain. Players play every week with known symptoms of other conditions - they don't with concussion. He's trying to pretend that the footy world isn't taking potential concussion as seriously as potential hamstring strains, but it's just not true.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

His analogy was a load of rubbish. Players don't get taken off for an assessment every time they get up from a contest with a limp. Players try to play on and let the medicos know if they're not right. Mihocek just played half a game with a hamstring strain. Players play every week with known symptoms of other conditions - they don't with concussion. He's trying to pretend that the footy world isn't taking potential concussion as seriously as potential hamstring strains, but it's just not true.

Again, I think many of you took him a little too literally and missed the point

 

[sr36]

Again, I think many of you took him a little too literally and missed the point

What do you think his attempted point was?

To me it was that clubs aren't taking concussion seriously enough, which he tried to substantiate it with a load of rubbish by using a bullshit comparison.

It was a mess, as we sure as hell don't want clubs to treat concussion the way they do with other injuries, which became his point.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

What do you think his point was?

To me it was that clubs aren't taking concussion seriously enough, which he tried to substantiate it with a load of rubbish by using a bullshit comparison.

Well yeah. That was the point.

They're not taking brain injuries and concussion seriously despite claiming the opposite for 2 years.

So why the focus on the analogy then? lol

His analogy isn't totally off in the context of understanding his point. Like, if you do understand the point he was trying to make, then his analogy wasn't all that bad. It especially wasn't off enough to warrant some of the reactions to it in here.

Again, particularly given the point he was ultimately making, which was a good one

 

[sr36]

Well yeah. That was the point.

They're not taking brain injuries and concussion seriously despite claiming the opposite for 2 years.

So why the focus on the analogy then? lol

His analogy isn't totally off in the context of understanding his point. Like, if you do understand the point he was trying to make, then his analogy wasn't all that bad. It especially wasn't off enough to warrant some of the reactions to it in here.

Again, particularly given the point he was ultimately making, which was a good one

His analogy was terrible. It turned his point into: we should take concussion as seriously as other injuries - when we should be taking it more seriously and are already. The last thing we want is for clubs to treat it like we do other injuries. Cameron would play this week if we did.

Gary offered nothing - just pretended there was an easy solution to fan the flames of a story. The unfortunate reality is that unless there is an automatic out of the game from a head knock (which would have to be somehow related to severity of knock or we'd not be able to finish games), players will continue to play on - as we can't accurately assess head trauma and heaps will initially pass tests and play on and then later get headaches or other symptoms that place then into the concussion protocols like what has occurred with Cameron..

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

sheedy won’t be happy, Essendon’s improvement means his dream of having hird return are dead and buried

and cremated

 

[Jen2310]

Heartbreaking for the kid

 

[JLC]

Reportedly on $650k to $700k. Allowing for increase in the salary cap it supposedly wont be too much of a difference. However I agree with you. De Koning has to be re-signed this year as well

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I have not faith in the administering of the salary cap.

Carlton have had a few shocking deals along the way Zac Williams, Mitch McGovern but still retain their stars without losing any players.

It doesn't add up to me.

 

[gouki88]

Heartbreaking for the kid

Bloody hell! Had he suffered head knocks as a junior?

 

[Jen2310]

Bloody hell! Had he suffered head knocks as a junior?

Nor sure. Nothing has been mentioned about it. All it refers to is this knock he got in January.

 

[gouki88]

Nor sure. Nothing has been mentioned about it. All it refers to is this knock he got in January.

Must have been one hell of a hit

 

[Jen2310]

Must have been one hell of a hit

He did get sent to hospital, and the preseason game got called off at the time.

AFL draftee Aiden O’Driscoll has become the latest AFL player forced into retirement after a sickening head clash with Bailey Williams that caused the Western Bulldogs to cancel a summer practice game.
O’Driscoll was drafted as an elite-running midfielder taken at pick 55 by the Dogs last year, and never got to play an official game for the Dogs or their VFL side Footscray.

He was not cleared to return after that January clash, which caused a serious concussion, and after a series of meetings with experts was referred to the AFL’s concussion panel.

His symptoms were not horrific and he was still involved in running drills but the concussion panel ruled he should retire from football.

The Dogs had been hopeful he might be able to return to football given he was the club’s best runner but accepted his retirement given the AFL ruling.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

 

[gouki88]

Big losses. Kelly is no stranger to injuries

 

[Black_White]

Further to the above, why I thought Lyon made sense:

The brain is more important than a hamstring.

Protecting the brain should be more important than protecting a hamstring.

A player is removed from the field at the merest whiff of a hammy (unless you play for Port) and mostly does not return to the game.

Cameron fell about six feet onto his head, which actually bounced off the ground, was (albeit) briefly dazed and then stood to keep playing. The Geelong doc went to him on three occasions to do the HIA test (which is allowed to be done on field), in amongst play continuing. Cameron presumably answered the questions correctly (which our own beloved Murphy has revealed can be memorised), and was allowed to stay on field. Next day, he has concussion symptoms and is now in the protocols.

Lyon’s point that the HIA assessment is not good enough seems reasonable to me.

He says that a hammy sees the player off the ground straight away.
But that’s not because of any real concern for the player, it’s because the player can no longer compete.
As a head injury, if not severe, cannot be seen then the player, coach and club prefer to leave them on to compete.
That’s where Lyon gets it wrong. Not that the head isn’t more important, just the fact that one player is now a liability on field and the other isn’t.
The only way to deal with this is how the NRL deal with it. Play stops and the player is removed with a replacement put in field in the same position before it resumes.
Pretty simple. And exactly how the blood rule is umpired.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

He says that a hammy sees the player off the ground straight away.
But that’s not because of any real concern for the player, it’s because the player can no longer compete.
As a head injury, if not severe, cannot be seen then the player, coach and club prefer to leave them on to compete.
That’s where Lyon gets it wrong. Not that the head isn’t more important, just the fact that one player is now a liability on field and the other isn’t.
The only way to deal with this is how the NRL deal with it. Play stops and the player is removed with a replacement put in field in the same position before it resumes.
Pretty simple. And exactly how the blood rule is umpired.

Lyon is extremely close to the Brayshaw's & McCartin's. I suspect that is a major reason why he's so emotional (& some may think a bit irrational) about it.

I must admit I thought any tests for players who had a head knock & they suspect may have concussion were all done off the ground. I didn't realise some were done on the ground.

 

[Horaceg]

Can we just accept the AFL is making significant progress in this space, we all agree it can get better and it will, then let’s agree……….


………………Gary Lyon can move to the Whipping thread

 

[Pie eyed]

Sadly, I think they are finally getting a backbone. They will be hard to beat when they are at their best as are most teams.

I thought we made them look good with inaccuracy at crucial times......(the whole last quarter)
Have not watched any other Bomber matches I can remember this season.

 

[Roverjg]

I have not faith in the administering of the salary cap.

Carlton have had a few shocking deals along the way Zac Williams, Mitch McGovern but still retain their stars without losing any players.

It doesn't add up to me.

Its totally BS.. St Kilda has reportedly offered Weitering $1.5m a year for 8 years. Carlton said he isn't going anywhere and will be very well compensated. We all know what happened the last time they tried to fit 4 decent players into their same salary cap.. I hope it happens again

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[sr36]

Lyon is extremely close to the Brayshaw's & McCartin's. I suspect that is a major reason why he's so emotional (& some may think a bit irrational) about it.

Concussion is really problematic.

But it's just not a sporting bodies fault that the world doesn't yet have clear tests that show how dangerous a particular head trauma was. There just isn't a right answer and trying to blame the AFL community for that in a situation like Cameron's was poor.

 

[unplugged]

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Lyon is extremely close to the Brayshaw's & McCartin's. I suspect that is a major reason why he's so emotional (& some may think a bit irrational) about it.

I must admit I thought any tests for players who had a head knock & they suspect may have concussion were all done off the ground. I didn't realise some were done on the ground.

I think you are probably right about Lyon’s concerns and as more players share their experiences of concussion symptoms more people will have similar concerns. I can’t understand why all tests for concussion are not done off field.
The terrifying thing for me when I met with a specialist after a severe concussion and informed him that I had suffered two other head knocks ( of the “I’m fine” type) in the previous two matches was him telling me: “if you go out and get even a minor whack with your current bruising of the brain (revealed after a scan) there is a possibility of haemorrhage and death.” That put everything in context for me. Perhaps we are focusing too narrowly on CTE type effects and long term impacts and not the more immediate repercussions.