Analysis Comparing Geelong to Hawthorn

[geelong_crazy26]

Many Geelong poster's are confused about how to evaluate the club's performance since we won our last premiership. I think it would be worthwhile to compare how we have performed since our last premiership with another great club Hawthorn since it last won a premiership and much like us have had to deal with losing so many high quality players and being denied early draft picks over a number of years.

Geelong last premiership 2011.
Hawthorn last premiership 2015.

Let's see how the club's compare since their last premierships.

Geelong has made 7/8 finals.
Hawthorn has made 2/4 finals.

Geelong has made 4/8 preliminary finals.
Hawthorn has made 0/4 preliminary finals.

Geelong has won 4/15 finals.
Hawthorn has won 0/4 finals.

Geelong straight sets 1 in 8 years.
Hawthorn Straight sets 2 in 4 years.

This is not meant to be a Hawthorn bashing thread. I am simply trying to compare us with another great club and how they have performed in a very similar situation.

 

[HaroLad]

I don’t know why people rate three in a row so highly compared to three in six years.

I’d much rather the latter; dominant over a much longer period and spread the premierships out. By the third in a row it’d be a bit stale I’d imagine. Would much rather remember how it feels to lose in between flags.

 

[Cataholic]

I don’t know why people rate three in a row so highly compared to three in six years.

I’d much rather the latter; dominant over a much longer period and spread the premierships out. By the third in a row it’d be a bit stale I’d imagine. Would much rather remember how it feels to lose in between flags.

Because a 3peat is statistically a harder achievement I'm thinking, like getting a hat trick in cricket

 

[FredLeDeux]

Because a 3peat is statistically a harder achievement I'm thinking, like getting a hat trick in cricket

No, the opposite is historically true, check out the premiership lists.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think our premiership side were better because we came up against tougher opponents. They had 3 interstate side's who had to travel to Hawthorns home ground. Imagine us in our glory days playing Grand finals at Geelong. We would of won 5 in a row by over 10 goals.

But the premierships were not really the point of this thread. I was more interested in how the club's compare post premiership years.

 

[Cataholic]

No, the opposite is historically true, check out the premiership lists.

Ok.

So what's your thinking as to why 3peats in sport so hard, and craved?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Ok.

So what's your thinking as to why 3peats in sport so hard, and craved?

It's craved because (a) it's hard, and (b) it makes good newspaper copy.

 

[Cataholic]

It's craved because (a) it's hard, and (b) it makes good newspaper copy.

Yes...... But if I understand you correctly, it's statistically harder to win an event 3 out of 6 attempts than 3 out of 3?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yes...... But if I understand you correctly, it's statistically harder to win an event 3 out of 6 attempts than 3 out of 3?

I believe 3 in 5 years has happened less often than 3 in a row.

I can't be bothered checking again, but I'm also pretty sure that 3 in a row has occurred more often than 2 in 3 years.

 

[Cataholic]

I believe 3 in 5 years has happened less often than 3 in a row.

I can't be bothered checking again, but I'm also pretty sure that 3 in a row has occurred more often than 2 in 3 years.

Fair enough. Happy to take your word for it.

 

[BotsMaster]

The Hawks did technically win 3 in 5 years though between 2011-2015.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I think our premiership side were better because we came up against tougher opponents. They had 3 interstate side's who had to travel to Hawthorns home ground. Imagine us in our glory days playing Grand finals at Geelong. We would of won 5 in a row by over 10 goals.

But the premierships were not really the point of this thread. I was more interested in how the club's compare post premiership years.

We were the better team. We had to battle it out against an absolute gun team in Stkilda and a very good team in Collingwood.
We're 4 years ahead of them and have both taken the same path post premierships.
In 4 years the results will end up around the same.
Us a bit better cause Danger is way better than anyone they could possibly get.

 

[Spazz Cat]

The Hawks did technically win 3 in 5 years though between 2011-2015.

Well technically yes. They did actually win 4 in 8 years though.

 

[dazbroncos]

this wont end well

Better get the Hawks supporter repellent out of the cupboard lol

GO Catters

 

[Down at K Park]

this wont end well

Better get the Hawks supporter repellent out of the cupboard lol

GO Catters

Rat bait?

 

[you pick one]

this wont end well

Better get the Hawks supporter repellent out of the cupboard lol

GO Catters

No need to wait for them Daz,the kicker here is "Geelong has made 4/8 preliminary finals."and couldn't go on, we have simply been September pretenders under Scott and his defend at all cost game plan even when recent history is telling you it's not getting the job done.
The major difference between these two great clubs and teams over the last decade has been the coaching one club has an innovator the other a stubborn my way or the highway type who set the team on a path and can't or won't change.
9 years since our last flag we should now be 5 minutes to midnight again on the premiership clock not 10 minutes past and slipping.

 

[Sttew]

The major difference between these two great clubs and teams over the last decade has been the coaching one club has an innovator the other a stubborn my way or the highway type who set the team on a path and can't or won't change.
9 years since our last flag we should now be 5 minutes to midnight again on the premiership clock not 10 minutes past and slipping.

Give us some examples of Clarkson’s innovative coaching since 2015 and what it has yielded.

 

[you pick one]

Give us some examples of Clarkson’s innovative coaching since 2015 and what it has yielded.

He's still managed to beat the Cats 3 out of their 4 last encounters with a vastly I'm lead to believe here inferior side,the secret the ruck McEvoy flogs us and when he wasn't available he went with 2 rucks to keep that advantage and got the chockies.I suppose there is just so much innovation in one person and Clarko has been around a while but he still has a good read on the opposition,and covers his own weakness well they will not be out of final long Patton and Frost are good pick ups and Mitchell back will make them worthy opponents.

 

[Turbocat]

this wont end well

Better get the Hawks supporter repellent out of the cupboard lol

GO Catters

This would seem to be an ideal example of a Geelong supporter only thread if we were ever to have one. I can't think of too many threads we have had like that but I suspect you will have you work cut out at some stage.

 

[Turbocat]

Many Geelong poster's are confused about how to evaluate the club's performance since we won our last premiership. I think it would be worthwhile to compare how we have performed since our last premiership with another great club Hawthorn since it last won a premiership and much like us have had to deal with losing so many high quality players and being denied early draft picks over a number of years.

Geelong last premiership 2011.
Hawthorn last premiership 2015.

Let's see how the club's compare since their last premierships.

Geelong has made 7/8 finals.
Hawthorn has made 2/4 finals.

Geelong has made 4/8 preliminary finals.
Hawthorn has made 0/4 preliminary finals.

Geelong has won 4/15 finals.
Hawthorn has won 0/4 finals.

Geelong straight sets 1 in 8 years.
Hawthorn Straight sets 2 in 4 years.

This is not meant to be a Hawthorn bashing thread. I am simply trying to compare us with another great club and how they have performed in a very similar situation.

Hawthorns record of success since 61 is like few clubs in this comp history, in all its shapes and names. Geelong record , which is good, is probably a bit underwhelming in comparison considering we have been in the comp since the start. The 3 flags we won brought us close to them again ..and they have now skipped away again. The 08 game might have changed the whole debate. That 3 hrs of footy can define you for decades to come shows the inherent bias towards ultimate success in the afl comp. Traditionally finishing top or terms like winning seasons mean little by November.

I think you, in this thread, are really comparing post success, how both have rebuilt after a flag era. Im not sure you can really do that till one club or the other wins another flag. Making finals is not a measure of success in the flag discussion..its a different metric. Haw seem to only make finals when they are ready to win it, where we have seemed to be on the end of several years where we have been teased by performance to only fail at the final hurdle. Unfortunately I feel it means this discussion will revolve into CS and the way we have managed our list since 2011.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

He's still managed to beat the Cats 3 out of their 4 last encounters with a vastly I'm lead to believe here inferior side,the secret the ruck McEvoy flogs us and when he wasn't available he went with 2 rucks to keep that advantage and got the chockies.I suppose there is just so much innovation in one person and Clarko has been around a while but he still has a good read on the opposition,and covers his own weakness well they will not be out of final long Patton and Frost are good pick ups and Mitchell back will make them worthy opponents.

Since 2015 Hawthorn have played in 4 finals and lost all 4. Why can't Clarkson coach well in the finals ?

 

[Sttew]

He's still managed to beat the Cats 3 out of their 4 last encounters with a vastly I'm lead to believe here inferior side,the secret the ruck McEvoy flogs us and when he wasn't available he went with 2 rucks to keep that advantage and got the chockies.I suppose there is just so much innovation in one person and Clarko has been around a while but he still has a good read on the opposition,and covers his own weakness well they will not be out of final long Patton and Frost are good pick ups and Mitchell back will make them worthy opponents.

Agree with everything you say. I was just wondering what was innovative about Clarkson post 2015 and you've addressed that.

Recruiting McEvoy and Tom Mitchell were master strokes by Clarkson. Jury is out on the other big name recruits in Scully, Paton, & Wingard.

For so ,long the Cats had the wood on the Hawks, but not any more. And in recent times, the one game that comes to mind where we conquered was when Scott "innovatively" plonked an injured Dangerfield at FF and he took Hodge to the cleaners.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Hawthorns record of success since 61 is like few clubs in this comp history, in all its shapes and names. Geelong record , which is good, is probably a bit underwhelming in comparison considering we have been in the comp since the start. The 3 flags we won brought us close to them again ..and they have now skipped away again. The 08 game might have changed the whole debate. That 3 hrs of footy can define you for decades to come shows the inherent bias towards ultimate success in the afl comp. Traditionally finishing top or terms like winning seasons mean little by November.

I think you, in this thread, are really comparing post success, how both have rebuilt after a flag era. Im not sure you can really do that till one club or the other wins another flag. Making finals is not a measure of success in the flag discussion..its a different metric. Haw seem to only make finals when they are ready to win it, where we have seemed to be on the end of several years where we have been teased by performance to only fail at the final hurdle. Unfortunately I feel it means this discussion will revolve into CS and the way we have managed our list since 2011.

Hawthorn have not gone for a complete rebuild via the draft. They have taken a similar approach to us and so far done worse in the finals than we have.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

No need to wait for them Daz,the kicker here is "Geelong has made 4/8 preliminary finals."and couldn't go on, we have simply been September pretenders under Scott and his defend at all cost game plan even when recent history is telling you it's not getting the job done.
The major difference between these two great clubs and teams over the last decade has been the coaching one club has an innovator the other a stubborn my way or the highway type who set the team on a path and can't or won't change.
9 years since our last flag we should now be 5 minutes to midnight again on the premiership clock not 10 minutes past and slipping.

Can you tell us what you mean by innovative ?

I think the truth is most of us on Bigfooty are not able to recognise changes the coach makes unless it's obvious.

Scott was praised for being innovative last year for the way he would set up mmm our forward 50. Only 1 player would contest the mark and the rest would wait for the ball and to hit the ground and pounce.

 

[you pick one]

Things like the Cluster to protect the middle of the ground when they didn't have the ball,and more important when to abandon it when it had been worked out.
The possession game plan.
His force the behind plan that took a flag from us.
His read on the effect on all clubs with the GC and GWS coming it the comp and its draw on young talent ie getting in early and bolstering his list,key in the 3 peet.
And there are the things we don't see he obviously has great influence over (by what ever means)players who have been less than model AFL citizens no one more so than Brian Lake who without there may well have been no 3 peet,inspired pick up.
Anyway that's enough I think like the Cats they have been a wonderful club the best over the last 50 years and good luck to them their rivalry with Geelong has been a highlight of watching footy for me.