Crows Chat That 'Doesnt Deserve Its Own Thread' Thread part 2

[Golumless]

The camp was held because of the existing fissures in the playing group

Possible it was a reason.

Not sure how much of this is actually true

Team goes from a record of 8-5 and 114% in the first half of the season ends up going on a run of 2-7 and 84% is a team who downed their tools and gave up. Teams don't get worked out to the point they go from a top four contender to a bottom four side after a bye week.

The pizza party was a rumor here, and players saying "too late" was a quote in an advertiser article.

 

[GreyCrow]

The camp was held because of the existing fissures in the playing group

There was also concern over ' mental toughness ' and going missing in important moments ( though they may be the same )

There was even discussion on here along those lines prior to the camp

 

[Scorpus]

There was also concern over ' mental toughness ' and going missing in important moments ( though they may be the same )

There was even discussion on here along those lines prior to the camp

The players deserved to be sent on a camp

Just not that camp

Our idiot management thought a program run by some zero credential hack would magically make us tougher. They went the easy route yet again and it backfired on them. Not to mention their atrocious response when their incompetence was exposed.

If they'd actually invested in making the group tougher and closer over several years they wouldn't have been in the position they were. Instead they let a culture of entitlement fester, if not actively promoted it. It's no wonder senior players like Jenkins and Betts thought they could get on their high horse about the camp. The club was putting them above the collective on a regular basis

 

[radiojake]

Wow

you dont think it's a lot all at once for someone still relatively young?

 

[baldandbroke]

Another classic post from over yonder… I don’t think they have quite grasped the concept of when the broken clock is correct [emoji23]

 

[cleanhands]

View attachment 1899092

Another classic post from over yonder… I don’t think they have quite grasped the concept of when the broken clock is correct [emoji23]

And that was from one of their most intelligent who can actually tell the time

 

[Faaarrk]

View attachment 1899092

Another classic post from over yonder… I don’t think they have quite grasped the concept of when the broken clock is correct [emoji23]

He’s not wrong. A stopped clock is right twice a day. A broken clock can be right from once to multiple times in it’s lifetime depending on how slow or fast it is.

 

[Sanders]

Possible it was a reason.



Team goes from a record of 8-5 and 114% in the first half of the season ends up going on a run of 2-7 and 84% is a team who downed their tools and gave up. Teams don't get worked out to the point they go from a top four contender to a bottom four side after a bye week.

The pizza party was a rumor here, and players saying "too late" was a quote in an advertiser article.

OK fine. It’s a theory, and there’s a few of them around

 

[mr.sheen]

Holy crap

Ps edited out Kane

 

[GrommoT]

Holy crap

Ps edited out Kane

More of an improvement ...

 

[adelaidecrows]

A good number of them left before the camp.

I think you can say the camp made our situation more precarious, but there were a lot of fractures in our group even in 2017. Heck, stories of our players arguing on field in the grand final (source: Richmond players) and all of Lever, Cameron and McGovern looking for the door despite being on a contender at the time says things were bad.

This is an interesting question.

What would people prefer if we could fix anything on hindsight....
1. No 2018 camp and Pyke, Burton, Fagan just continue on their merry way and we continue to go year in and year out plodding around the finals.

or

2. We dont change a thing and enjoy the fruits of a rebuild that looks like its just about to hit its straps?

I easily vote 2. This is a squad built off the pain and suffering of the review which is going to be far and away better than any squad we've had, probably ever. Don't get me wrong, 1. would have been nice but we would be having the same complaints about the club we had back a decade ago and we probably just be a side that pushes between 10th and a prelim every few years.

 

[MRB37]

Perfect start to the season. Crows send out barcodes to members to gain entry to the pre-season game. No ones codes work.

 

[Jetwa5h]

Holy crap

Ps edited out Kane

Maccas right knee how the f.... does he walk on that

 

[mcleod at 50 lines it up]

Pyke left because the players mutinied under his watch. Review or not, his coaching career at Adelaide was done the moment they downed tools and gave up on 2019. Who can forget our pizza party to try to patch thins up and the players telling Don "it's too late". Credit where it's due, he fell on his sword, but he had to go.

Equally to the point, it's hard to argue that Pyke was genuinely a good coach. Sure, he was good tactically - very good, as that four tall structure we had in 2016--17 was genuis, as much as we stuck to it for too long and weren't aggressive enough to trade Lynch - but the primary job of a coach is to keep a playing group together and singing from the same hymn sheet. The fact we had players walk out despite being a contender, players arguing on ground in the grand final (source: Richmond players), and we eventually fractured to the point our players gave up to get rid of Don and Burton says Don really was a senior assistant who was promoted past his capabilities.

The opposite as we got the same results as the period where our players downed tools to ice Pyke's career here? COVID is one reason, but equally, you have to punch in the nuclear codes with a group that's got a taste for killing coaching careers - they'll do it for less the next time.

there's not much evidence that the players mutinied like you claimed, i would have expected more to come out by now if they had, similar to say how past players talk about Robert Shaw, "good bloke but probably better as an assistant etc" but instead most comments from past players seem to have been that it wasn't a problem for them, and Jenkins and betts are out there on their own. but it's possible, time will tell!

I also don't regard arguing in a gf as it's slipping away out of frustration or that there was a dramatic form slump (which there wasn't) as good evidence either, which is basically what the argument comes down to in the absence of any evidence yet.

 

[mcleod at 50 lines it up]

Pyke left because the players mutinied under his watch. Review or not, his coaching career at Adelaide was done the moment they downed tools and gave up on 2019. Who can forget our pizza party to try to patch thins up and the players telling Don "it's too late". Credit where it's due, he fell on his sword, but he had to go.

Equally to the point, it's hard to argue that Pyke was genuinely a good coach. Sure, he was good tactically - very good, as that four tall structure we had in 2016--17 was genuis, as much as we stuck to it for too long and weren't aggressive enough to trade Lynch - but the primary job of a coach is to keep a playing group together and singing from the same hymn sheet. The fact we had players walk out despite being a contender, players arguing on ground in the grand final (source: Richmond players), and we eventually fractured to the point our players gave up to get rid of Don and Burton says Don really was a senior assistant who was promoted past his capabilities.

The opposite as we got the same results as the period where our players downed tools to ice Pyke's career here? COVID is one reason, but equally, you have to punch in the nuclear codes with a group that's got a taste for killing coaching careers - they'll do it for less the next time.

I think your point about a good coach creates an atmosphere where the players want to stay is good, but i guess it happened to that many coaches that i have always thought it was closer to a wage structure issue, but who knows. certainly some bad contracts were handed out to the oldies!

 

[FullyBigKPro]

There you go.... Now watch a Crows player get 3+ weeks for the same thing Maynard did.... Never change VFL

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/the-afl-commission-has-ticked-off-several-changes-for-2024-including-a-crackdown-on-smothers-and-tackles/news-story/63855ea8fdc8f5ed980cb5929f8efa14

 

[Samcro24]

Run down tackles, and smothers. **** me, high marking will be next after a knee to the head injury.

More grey areas, more rules to scrutinise, bet your bottom dollar more wild inconsistency at the tribunal.

More herpa derpa in the media.

''That's a smother, we've been doing them for 100 years, cant games for that!''
''Yeah well, it's a rule now. Rules are rules.''
''What about this one with the Bont? Looks worse than the bloke that got a game last week''
''Oh that's different.''
''Why?''
''Well its finals next week. Do we want blokes missing finals for that?''

Shit is going to be unwatchable at some point in the very near future.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

For a forward line that was arguably the best performed in 2023 Dwayno doesn't rate our players it seems.

Dwayne Russell’s Top 25 AFL forwards heading into 2024

Pipe’s list.

www.sen.com.au

1 - Charlie Curnow (Carlton)

“No Lance Franklin this year for the first time in a long time, but I still think Charlie Curnow would have been No.1 anyway,” he said on SEN’s Dwayne’s World.

“81 goals last year. He is the new king, he’s got the world at his feet.

“I think he’ll have a good finals series this year.”

2 - Toby Greene (GWS)

“He can beat you multiple ways - in the air, on the ground, on the lead.

“He can beat you at stoppage as well. He scores a lot from being able to bamboozle those trying to follow him through stoppage.”

3 - Jeremy Cameron (Geelong)

“At his best he could be No.1.

“He has been No.1 for periods of his career. I think he’ll bounce back this year.”

4 - Charlie Cameron (Brisbane)

“He kicked 59 goals last season.

“I think he’s the best small forward in the competition.”

5 - Joe Daniher (Brisbane)

“He was back to his best last year.

“Not just consistent but reliable and accurate. He kicked 61 goals, 37 behinds.

“I like the new Joe Daniher.”

6 - Jesse Hogan (GWS)

“He’s showing why he was a priority draft pick.

“He’s matured now and he’s at the height of his powers. 49 goals last year.”

7 - Max King (St Kilda)

“Might be a little high for some and it might be a little speculative.

“The Saints fire and Max fires then it’s going to go a long way to Max being higher than seven come the end of this year.”

8 - Jamarra Ugle-Hagan (Western Buldogs)

“Fingers crossed he continues to improve this year, but I think he’s a ripper.”

9 - Tom Lynch (Richmond)

“Tom Lynch is the one I’m slipping in if he’s injury-free.

“If he’s going to be missing games I wouldn’t have him in the Top 25.

“He’s too good to leave out if he’s going to be injury-free.”

10 - Oscar Allen (West Coast)

“West Coast won’t win many games, which is his problem, but I do think Allen is one of the rising stars of the comp.”

11 - Tom Hawkins (Geelong)

“He’s a year older, he’s nearing the end which is why he’s not Top 10 anymore.

“But he’s still a gun.”

12 - Aaron Naughton (Western Bulldogs)

“He’s got all the weapons, just needs to start kicking straighter.

“I think he could be the best centre half-forward in the comp. It depends on where ‘Bevo’ plays him.

“I think he’s a centre half-forward and hopefully he plays there.”

13 - Taylor Walker (Adelaide)

“He’s getting old but still kicked 76 goals last year.”

14 - Nick Larkey (North Melbourne)

“He kicked 71 goals, 24 behinds last year.

“You don’t know how good he is until North get out of the bottom four and start rising.”

15 - Isaac Heeney (Sydney)

“Isaac Heeney I’ve got on trust at 15.

“I’m giving him one more chance to show consistency.”

16 - Brody Mihocek (Collingwood)

“Mr Reliable who needs recognition.

“He might not be one of the big names of the comp but he just plays pretty well every week.

“I’ve got to have him in my Top 20.”

17 - Mitch Lewis (Hawthorn)

“It’s the chicken and the egg. If he’s good, then Hawthorn are going to be good. If Hawthorn’s good, then he’s going to be good.

“Mitch Lewis is going to have a big year.”

18 - Harry McKay (Carlton)

“I think he’s a centre half-forward.

“Hopefully he fixes his goal kicking.”

19 - Tom Papley (Sydney)

“He kicked 37 goals last season and he’s a very dangerous small forward who can play in the midfield.”

20 - Bobby Hill (Collingwood)

21 - Izak Rankine (Adelaide)

22 - Kysaiah Pickett (Melbourne)

23 - Charlie Dixon (Port Adelaide)

“I’m taking a punt on Charlie.

“I think he’s going to play full-forward all year now that Port have two ruckmen. He probably won’t have to ruck so he could be deeper.”

24 - Jamie Elliott (Collingwood)

“He’s been too good for too long to leave out of the Top 25.

“He did fade a little last year, but still effective.”

25 - Kyle Langford (Essendon)

“Kicked 51 goals last season, ninth in the Coleman.”

Russell also named a group of younger forwards who he has just outside the Top 25 and could break in by the end of 2024.

Logan McDonald (Sydney)
Jye Amiss (Fremantle)
Jacob Van Rooyen (Melbourne)
Riley Thilthorpe (Adelaide)
Ollie Henry (Geelong)
Ben King (Gold Coast)

Meh, I don't rate Dwyane so not fussed by his opinions.

 

[Faaarrk]

Meh, I don't rate Dwyane so not fussed by his opinions.

Agree. I also wonder how he would rate our players if they played for Port.

 

[dogs105]

“He’s getting old but still kicked 76 goals last year.”



Great analysis...

 

[Samcro24]

“He’s getting old but still kicked 76 goals last year.”



Great analysis...

As if to say 76 goals isn’t a mammoth haul.

Just a lazy 76.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

“He’s getting old but still kicked 76 goals last year.”



Great analysis...

You can't be surprised if you have listened to his commentary.... excitable but a doofus!

 

[1970crow]

This is an interesting question.

What would people prefer if we could fix anything on hindsight....
1. No 2018 camp and Pyke, Burton, Fagan just continue on their merry way and we continue to go year in and year out plodding around the finals.

or

2. We dont change a thing and enjoy the fruits of a rebuild that looks like its just about to hit its straps?

I easily vote 2. This is a squad built off the pain and suffering of the review which is going to be far and away better than any squad we've had, probably ever. Don't get me wrong, 1. would have been nice but we would be having the same complaints about the club we had back a decade ago and we probably just be a side that pushes between 10th and a prelim every few years.

"far and away better than any squad we've had"? You'd think the best crow thread might have jogged some memories around the place. This group has a looooong way to go.

 

[adelaidecrows]

"far and away better than any squad we've had"? You'd think the best crow thread might have jogged some memories around the place. This group has a looooong way to go.

Yes of course there is a long way to go. But the signs are there. and thats my question. Has the pain basically been worth it to assemble this squad and culture.

Also, for the record - ive watched the crows from day one and im all to aware of the quality of talent weve had throughout the time. But in a pound for pound comparison, the 90s teams were never the best team in the competition during the home and away season. Winning from 4th and 5th suggests this. Where as 2005/2006 Crows were top 2 dominant and so was the 2017 Crows. So our premiership teams although they won aren't our best ever squads. So its fair to say with the talent acquired through the draft and traded in, we do potentially have the players to surpass those teams and every indication is we will.

backline is stacked. There is not enough room to play every deserving player.
Forward line is certainly stacked with goal kicking talent. Probably far superior to any other time.
Our midfield is where the difference lies. That brings us back to the pack.

So what would you prefer? take the 2018 squad with no camp and no rebuild or take the current squad?

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Just on fox our 2017 match against NM. Down 64 points to 0 early in the second. A game to forget although Eddie had some highlights as always.