Analysis Danger + Kerridge VS Milera + Menzel + Gore

[Mego Red]

be careful not to confuse team achievements with the individual

You trade to improve your team.

Judd was a champion mid, but mids are easier to find that a key forward. Carlton gave up a lot and received no team success from that decision.

 

[Elite Crow]

be careful not to confuse team achievements with the individual

Judd wouldn't have been recruited to win individual awards though it would have been for team achievements.

Kennedy is arguably the best forward in the comp and had helped West Coast to a GF and has years of footy ahead of him. Masten is also a handy player.

 

[baldandbroke]

be careful not to confuse team achievements with the individual

So you judge trades on what they do individually - not what they do for the team ? You don't believe in trading for need then - you trade for individual award potential? At least I understand why you are so adamant that PD leaving is the end of the world.

 

[Lawrst]

Who do you think won the Judd trade?

Sorry did I miss that we got a top 5 pick and a former top 5 pick?

Carlton's failings around Judd don't negate the fact west coast lost the best player in the game who went onto be a brownlow medalist.

Had Kennedy never taken off or gotten injured how would you see that trade?

 

[Tex200]

Sorry did I miss that we got a top 5 pick and a former top 5 pick?

Carlton's failings around Judd don't negate the fact west coast lost the best player in the game who went onto be a brownlow medalist.

Had Kennedy never taken off or gotten injured how would you see that trade?

Clearly in a different light.

But he has taken off so you can only assess it on what's happened

 

[Sanders]

So you judge trades on what they do individually - not what they do for the team ? You don't believe in trading for need then - you trade for individual award potential?

You think he didn't do anything for a team that just won its 3rd consecutive spoon?

At least I understand why you are so adamant that PD leaving is the end of the world.

understand or made up?

 

[Lawrst]

Clearly in a different light.

But he has taken off so you can only assess it on what's happened

West coast got decent compensation but they still don't have a player that is at the level of Judd back then.

We didn't get great compensation for danger.

Yes I'm happy about menzel and milera. Gore who knows yet.
But both of menzel and milera could have happened regardless of danger.

Kennedy at west coast wouldn't have happened without Judd.
I still think Carlton did well in that trade, Judd was a champion footballer for them. Their failure as a football club is not Judd's fault.

 

[baldandbroke]

You think he didn't do anything for a team that just won its 3rd consecutive spoon?

Jeez Sanders I thought things like website hits and brand awareness were less important than Team success - aren't you one of the biggest haters of that stuff? Yep Judd did bring them more exposure, but did he help them get closer to a premiership? Nope.

Understand or made up?

Understood. When I have said in the past that Dangerfield leaving might lead to us being a better team you have hurt yourself to point out that losing the "3rd best player in the comp" will never help the team. Now I understand why you say that. It's because you obviously have no idea how teams work.

 

[Tex200]

West coast got decent compensation but they still don't have a player that is at the level of Judd back then.

We didn't get great compensation for danger.

Yes I'm happy about menzel and milera. Gore who knows yet.
But both of menzel and milera could have happened regardless of danger.

Kennedy at west coast wouldn't have happened without Judd.
I still think Carlton did well in that trade, Judd was a champion footballer for them. Their failure as a football club is not Judd's fault.

Certainly not suggesting Judd is anything other than an outstanding acquisition for Carlton.

The known quantity at the time position is ideal of course, but that doesn't preclude the deal evening up in the future as it looks likely to do for WCE.

 

[Sanders]

Jeez Sanders I thought things like website hits and brand awareness were less important than Team success - aren't you one of the biggest haters of that stuff? Yep Judd did bring them more exposure, but did he help them get closer to a premiership? Nope.

Maybe if you stopped trying to 2nd or 3rd guess who posted and just looked at the content you would make more sense. Otherwise this is just a ridiculous point of view

Ridiculous

Of course he got them much closer to a premiership by any calculation.

Understood. When I have said in the past that Dangerfield leaving might lead to us being a better team you have hurt yourself to point out that losing the "3rd best player in the comp" will never help the team. Now I understand why you say that. It's because you obviously have no idea how teams work.

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying this idea that you're some of sort of teams expert

Of course losing your best player hurts a team. Of course it does.

Arguing otherwise is just a waste of everyone's time, even yours

 

[Jeffcrowe]

West coast got decent compensation but they still don't have a player that is at the level of Judd back then.

We didn't get great compensation for danger.

Yes I'm happy about menzel and milera. Gore who knows yet.
But both of menzel and milera could have happened regardless of danger.

Kennedy at west coast wouldn't have happened without Judd.
I still think Carlton did well in that trade, Judd was a champion footballer for them. Their failure as a football club is not Judd's fault.

to be fair we don't get milera with pick 17

 

[GROTTO]

to be fair we don't get milera with pick 17

We were lucky to get him with our pick, Suns and Blues were very very interested.

 

[Cleric]

You really cant look at it without including the draft picks as well.
Who did Geelong pick up with the pick we gave them and lets see how those 5 player go for Carlton that they traded the second rounder we gave them for Menzel as well.
Its a lopp sided poll without including all the rest. Makes it look like we gave up less than we did.

 

[baldandbroke]

Maybe if you stopped trying to 2nd or 3rd guess who posted and just looked at the content you would make more sense. Otherwise this is just a ridiculous point of view. Ridiculous. Of course he got them much closer to a premiership by any calculation.

How do you come to that conclusion? Again you are sounding like the group that think getting further up the ladder is a sign of being closer to a premiership ... I didn't think you were in that camp?

Carlton's change with Judd...
2007 - 15th (no judd)
2008 - 11th
2009 - 7th (lost elim)
2010 - 8th (lost elim)
2011 - 5th (won elim, lost semi)
2012 - 10th
2013 - 8th (won elim, lost semi)
2014 - 13th
2015 - 18th

When exactly were they close to a premiership in that run? Which year were they a chance to win the premiership? Can you point to a team in the modern AFL era that has acquired a superstar and it has brought them closer to a premiership? North with Colbert (a stretch to call him a superstar but he was a very very good player in 1999 when he switched)? Sydney with Franklin? Gold Coast with Ablett?

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying this idea that you're some of sort of teams expert. Of course losing your best player hurts a team. Of course it does. Arguing otherwise is just a waste of everyone's time, even yours

I don't think of discussions with you as arguments Sanders, because you never have a point of view of your own. You are just raging against something. So you believe that losing your best individual player cannot ever result in an improved team? Full-stop ... end of discussion. Don't question my knowledge on Teams Sanders, such a weak way to go. Instead, tell me where I am wrong - and why.

 

[Danger Zone]

Not too many superstars change clubs and only 1 team in 18 can win it in any given year. I guess it depends where you draw the line. We traded for Jarman and then won 2.

 

[baldandbroke]

Not too many superstars change clubs and only 1 team in 18 can win it in any given year. I guess it depends where you draw the line. We traded for Jarman and then won 2.

Agree - but the majority of the time it doesn't make THE difference to a team's trajectory. Jarman is an example of an excellent trade for AFC, he did make the difference. Very rare.

 

[Bovo]

I really hate seeing Danger in the best for Geelong. Really irritating me. I thought it would not bother me.

Tell me I am not alone.

 

[Scrotes2000]

Was expecting it.

Just don't want to see him do significantly better than he did for us over the season, that would string.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Dangerfield doesn't even suit those colours

 

[Bovo]

Was expecting it.

Just don't want to see him do significantly better than he did for us over the season, that would string.

Sting? Or a ball for a cat to play with?

 

[conVINCEd]

He's packed on some extra muscle I reckon; he looks huge.

 

[Crows4Eva]

Doesn't really bother me. Over it.

Maybe if he kicks the winner against us in the dying seconds it might bother me but otherwise I don't care how he's performing.

 

[Brentmeister]

Tell me how annoyed you are in 5 years when Milera is tearing it up.

 

[Bovo]

Doesn't really bother me. Over it.

Maybe if he kicks the winner against us in the dying seconds it might bother me but otherwise I don't care how he's performing.

Yeah that was me too...or at least I thought it was. But no....this one is our worst loss of a player in our history.

 

[Stiffy_18]

You are not alone! Watched the game today and got angry....why leave when he did? All I wanted was 3 years to give us a chance. Maybe in 5 years time we are glad it happened but on the eve of 2016 season, it hurts!