Rumour Dayne Beams - will he or won't he retire?

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The Royal Sampler said:
What’s a bloke need to live on?

If he’s providing no service to the club, and making no attempt to get back to football, he should be on the league minimum until his contract runs out. Why should he be paid like an elite player to fingerpaint?

2 x $100,000 years, take it or we take it further for breach of contract.
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If it's true that we told him he wasn't welcome back, we can't claim he breached contract by not coming back.
 
sr36 said:
If it's true that we told him he wasn't welcome back, we can't claim he breached contract by not coming back.
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No, I was thinking the breach of contract/grounds for dismissal might have been when things started not being where they should in people’s lockers, etc.
 

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Kappa said:
As has already been explained, I'm pretty sure the Tippett case is completely different because he was picked up in the Preseason draft due to putting a massive contract on his head, which could easily be exploited in the future if players did that then just retired before the contract ended and ruining the integrity of the draft... correct me if any of that is wrong..
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A bit of it is wrong actually. Tippett’s last contract was a vanilla extension of his initial Swans deal out to maybe 2020(?) which they settled. Essentially the same situation as Beams if a settlement is reached there. If we pay him in a footy year, he needs to be on the list for that year. The re-rookie move would just save the 80k rookie amount (or whatever it is next year).


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Hyakutake said:
The answer to what we need to do, and what we might be happy with, could look very different depending on whether any payment is in or out of the cap.
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Would have thought it must come out of the cap, it’d be more a question of which year’s cap.
 
Kappa said:
Why would they rookie him?
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Because he’s contracted for another two seasons?

Are there any precedents for players being delisted, and yet continuing to be paid on an ongoing basis according to the terms of their contract? (ie Parties prefer ongoing payment rather than bulk severance payment?)
 
The Royal Sampler said:
What’s a bloke need to live on?

If he’s providing no service to the club, and making no attempt to get back to football, he should be on the league minimum until his contract runs out. Why should he be paid like an elite player to fingerpaint?

2 x $100,000 years, take it or we take it further for breach of contract.
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Sure, but then how would you deal with him and his legal and PR team playing the “Premiership hero to discarded mental health victim“ card and dragging Collingwood‘s name through the mud in both the law courts and in the court of public opinion?

Not sure that our club would have much appetite for that, especially in light of the Lumumba case before the Supreme Court.
 
76woodenspooners said:
Sure, but then how would you deal with him and his legal and PR team playing the “Premiership hero to discarded mental health victim“ card and dragging Collingwood‘s name through the mud in both the law courts and in the court of public opinion?

Not sure that our club would have much appetite for that, especially in light of the Lumumba case before the Supreme Court.
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The law courts would be the only one/s which concern me. Media driven opinion and sensationalism not so much.
 
swoop42 said:
Beams played 19 games in 2017 and 21 games in 2018.

Depression didn't appear much of a hindrance in his final two seasons with Brisbane did it?

Plenty of people live with a mental illness everyday and still battle through to go to work because they can't afford not to while others who may need time away for a period get themselves well enough again with the aid of medication and/or counselling.

People with prolonged mental illness concerns struggle to ever find meaningful employment and they certainly would never have the capacity to reach the level that Beams did as footballer even if they had all the talent in the world.

By all reports the Beams depression appears more self inflicted due to addiction and a realisation he's pissed away huge sums of money rather than the poor sod suffering a chemical imbalance in the brain or people who are the survivors of some horrific event.

What really angers me and I'm sure plenty of others is that despite all the extra support Beams would have had access to due to him being a high profile footballer he didn't return to the club last year to work with our medical professionals to rehabilitate from his hip surgery, after being granted a prolonged absence from the club and having the motivation to trek the Kokoda track still didn't turn up for preseason training and when presented with an unexpected opportunity due to the postponement of the season he was still nowhere to be seen.

Personally I don't believe he's made any genuine attempt to resume his job as a professional footballer and as The Royal Sampler said if we have leverage we can threaten to use against him if he doesn't settle on our terms it's about time we use it.

We owe him nothing.
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Played 9 of the 1st 11 games in 2019 as well, and wasn't affecting his output.
 
76woodenspooners said:
Because he’s contracted for another two seasons?

Are there any precedents for players being delisted, and yet continuing to be paid on an ongoing basis according to the terms of their contract? (ie Parties prefer ongoing payment rather than bulk severance payment?)
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I don't know if anyone has tried it - on-going payments, but I doubt it. Not a lot in it for the clubs! As I understand it, if there were future year payments, technically they would go back to be counted in the cap of the last year the player was listed. Am guessing there might even be some specific rule prohibiting it.
 
The Royal Sampler said:
The law courts would be the only one/s which concern me. Media driven opinion and sensationalism not so much.
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Within reason IMO.

IMO it’s important that the “broad church” of our membership and supporter base feels connected to the club, so best to stay clear of controversy where possible.

Also important that 4 to 8 year olds / immigrants feel “Yeah, Collingwood is a team I wanna follow” ... sure - not too many immigrants ATM, and not sure how much kids soak this kind of thing up.
 
76woodenspooners said:
Sure, but then how would you deal with him and his legal and PR team playing the “Premiership hero to discarded mental health victim“ card and dragging Collingwood‘s name through the mud in both the law courts and in the court of public opinion?
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What if the headline was indeed “Premiership hero to discarded mental health victim“, but the article started “Collingwood will pay fallen premiership hero Dayne Beams $100,000 per year for the next two years to continue his art therapy business.”?

Should we really be making list management decisions this important, based on how the media may choose to misrepresent the truth?

I think avoiding unnecessary negative press is important, but this has gotten to the point of falling into the “necessary” category. Moreover, if we were to use the “levers” available to us, to use a Hine term, we could get out from under this and allow Beams to save face too.
 

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The Royal Sampler said:
What if the headline was indeed “Premiership hero to discarded mental health victim“, but the article started “Collingwood will pay fallen premiership hero Dayne Beams $100,000 per year for the next two years to continue his art therapy business.”?
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You reckon the media would play ball on that? Much of the media would crucify us for strong arming a Premiership Player with mental health issues ... no matter what the extenuating circumstances.

Should we really be making list management decisions this important, based on how the media may choose to misrepresent the truth?
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If you mean list management in terms of filling list spots, then no, we can sidestep all that by paying out his contract. Maybe we need the AFL’s permission to ‘borrow’ money out of the 2022 salary cap to pay him out today ... but the AFL will OK that, it’s not too n the competition’s best interests to have a player lurking around who’ll never play again form medical reasons.

If you mean list management in terms of salary cap ... a player’s contract is pretty much a sunk cost the day it is signed. To try and claw back some of that for anything less than watertight breach of contract ... it’s too much of a can of worms IMO.

I think avoiding unnecessary negative press is important, but this has gotten to the point of falling into the “necessary” category.
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I disagree. If Beams had had a career ending physical injury (eg: Tom Hunter) it would be a non issue.

I think what’s irking the supporter base is the desire to end the uncertainty, and if that means ending it by Beams never playing again, then having some closure around that.
 
Is it immoral/insensitive that I think we should take legal actions if Beams doesn't want to cooperate to any degree?

Surely we're not just gonna sit here and let him milk every last $
 
I think a deal has been reached, but waiting for the afl about the cap, free agency and the draft to get done first. Then it will be announced.
We just have to wait a bit longer. It’s just my take, no info
 
Hyakutake said:
Tippett retired early in January 2018 for medical reasons. He had a contract till the end of 2020

He was drafted as Sydney's third round rookie draft choice and onto the list for 2019 due to the need to spread his final settlement payment over 2018 and 2019 for cap reasons.

theswansblog.com

Swans set to retain "retired" Kurt Tippett on rookie list for 2019 - The Swans Blog

Injured Swan Kurt Tippett is set to remain with the Swans in 2019, despite retiring from football in January this year from injuries sustained through 20...
theswansblog.com theswansblog.com
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I don’t get why the rest of his contract needed to be paid out, he retired.

Unless it was a delisting/forced retirement.
 
With all the focus on mental health and players taking mental health breaks, when is it going to become a form of medical retirement.

If you have a crippling injury like Dane Swan that stops you from being able to play, how is that different to having crippling mental health issues that stops you from being able to play.

Only issue is clubs or players will milk it to get out of bad contracts. Like Tippett, Buddy and Beams
 
Can I ask a question?

Lets say we’re in a standoff with Beams where he doesn’t want to accept a payout, and wants to milk the club for every cent of his contract

Doesn't the club have recourse in what he gets up to?

“If you want to remain in contract until 2022, you need the club’s consent to independently sell paintings, and actually spend your time finger painting.”

You’d think the club would have more power over the player’s activities when under contract.
 
PieLebo87 said:
Can I ask a question?

Lets say we’re in a standoff with Beams where he doesn’t want to accept a payout, and wants to milk the club for every cent of his contract

Doesn't the club have recourse in what he gets up to?

“If you want to remain in contract until 2022, you need the club’s consent to independently sell paintings, and actually spend your time finger painting.”

You’d think the club would have more power over the player’s activities when under contract.
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I'm pretty sure you will find that anyone who claims emotional damage can do just exactly what they want in today's fawning climate.
 
Has he got skin fold requirements in his contract? That would be a way to cancel his contract.

His manufactured moto ‘win the morning‘ should be ‘win the buffet’, which he’s winning lots.
 
regpies said:
With all the focus on mental health and players taking mental health breaks, when is it going to become a form of medical retirement.

If you have a crippling injury like Dane Swan that stops you from being able to play, how is that different to having crippling mental health issues that stops you from being able to play.

Only issue is clubs or players will milk it to get out of bad contracts. Like Tippett, Buddy and Beams
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A physical injury would be directly attributable to a game or training mishap. A mental illness could be the result of all sorts of factors.
 
regpies said:
With all the focus on mental health and players taking mental health breaks, when is it going to become a form of medical retirement.

If you have a crippling injury like Dane Swan that stops you from being able to play, how is that different to having crippling mental health issues that stops you from being able to play.

Only issue is clubs or players will milk it to get out of bad contracts. Like Tippett, Buddy and Beams
Click to expand...
Swan was continued to be paid.. that’s the idea of a contract is to guarantee the money.

People like Boyd simply have a heart did the right thing instead of ******* a club.
 
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