Do we need another AFL Club or are there too many as it is?

[deltablues]

Directors, shareholders, members, merchandise, revenue streams, three men's sides as well as a women's side is more than a "shelf company".



You do realise there are football competitions outside the AFL? Why don't you turn up to the Brunswick St Oval next season and watch our "shelf company" run around in an actual football competition for their 123rd season.



Legally, spiritually and morally? Here it is.

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My point was public perception (in an AFL context) which I think trumps your response, valiant as it was.

PS I certainly am aware of footy comps outside the AFL - whenever I visit Oz in winter I attend the Double Blues' home games - I have never seen an AFL game live - can't get a ticket.

 

[Bokonon_]

On paper it does. Then you actually look at the situation and realize "oh shit".



Where are the fans going to come from? Do people not realize that WA has had a presence in the VFL/AFL for 30 years with all footballing people there being rusted on supporters of either the Eagles, Dockers, a local WAFL side or an interstate club? Getting 20k to the new Perth stadium would be an absolute disaster and is what would likely happen with WA3 whether it's Joondalup or East Perth. Commercially it would be sound through sponsorship but that is the only thing going for a WA3 side.



Commercially yes. It makes no sense in any other area and it's why the AFL should can WA3. I hate Norwood with a ******* passion and they make more sense then WA3.

Tassie is realistically the best expansion area and although I would like to see a stand alone Tassie side, it should just be a relocated NMFC.

Well it's your opinion and your entitled. I think North fans might have a righteous view on relocation, and dont think the AFL will do it anyway.
A new club taking fans away from existing club is a real issue. Doesn't have to be though. Swans memership has grown since we entered and all the evidence is there's very little cannibilisation of the existing AFL fans in the Sydney market. Maybe that's influenced by the number of available bums for seats in Sydney that aren't existing AFL supporters, frankly I'd be guided by WA residents on this.
It's only really initially while the new club establishes itself anyway. Personally I doubt WA would deliver only 20k to an AFL game, unless you you have some justication for this number?

 

[Roylion]

My point was public perception (in an AFL context) which I think trumps your response, valiant as it was.

'Public perception' in an "AFL context"? Are you saying my club doesn't exist because "public perception" says so?

Fitzroy is not in the AFL. Once it held an AFL licence. Now it does not. And?

PS I certainly am aware of footy comps outside the AFL - whenever I visit Oz in winter I attend the Double Blues' home games - I have never seen an AFL game live - can't get a ticket.

The "Double Blues"? Who? Are they another "shelf company"? Do they actually exist? Never heard of them. Public perception in an AFL context you see. Does anything exist outside the AFL?

My "shelf company" I'm told plays at its' original home ground Brunswick Street Oval as it did it in its first season in 1884, in an amateur competition representing the suburb of Fitzroy. Every Saturday afternoon at 2 pm. When does your "shelf company" play?

 

[madmug]

So you don't think it's possible for a state league to exist in Vic?

Wow.

Half of them were broke then. Half are on life support now. How do you think they'd go without AFL life support?

 

[deltablues]

'Public perception' in an "AFL context"? Are you saying my club doesn't exist because "public perception" says so?

Fitzroy is not in the AFL. Once it held an AFL licence. Now it does not. And?



The "Double Blues"? Who? Are they another "shelf company"? Do they actually exist? Never heard of them. Public perception in an AFL context you see. Does anything exist outside the AFL?

My "shelf company" I'm told plays at its' original home ground Brunswick Street Oval as it did it in its first season in 1884, in an amateur competition representing the suburb of Fitzroy. Every Saturday afternoon at 2 pm. When does your "shelf company" play?

It seems that I have inadvertently upset you, as you are clearly being mischievously disingenuous.

Buh bye.

 

[Bokonon_]

'Public perception' in an "AFL context"? Are you saying my club doesn't exist because "public perception" says so?

Fitzroy is not in the AFL. Once it held an AFL licence. Now it does not. And?



The "Double Blues"? Who? Are they another "shelf company"? Do they actually exist? Never heard of them. Public perception in an AFL context you see. Does anything exist outside the AFL?

My "shelf company" I'm told plays at its' original home ground Brunswick Street Oval as it did it in its first season in 1884, in an amateur competition representing the suburb of Fitzroy. Every Saturday afternoon at 2 pm. When does your "shelf company" play?

Maybe he means Sturt? Hard to believe you couldn't get a tkt to the SANFL though.

 

[deltablues]

Maybe he means Sturt? Hard to believe you couldn't get a tkt to the SANFL though.

Oh yes, I get tickets to the SANFL. But cannot to the AFL.

 

[Roylion]

It seems that I have inadvertently upset you, as you are clearly being mischievously disingenuous.

Upset? More amused than anything else.

 

[Roylion]

Maybe he means Sturt? Hard to believe you couldn't get a tkt to the SANFL though.

Sturt? Are they in the AFL?

 

[Bokonon_]

Sturt? Are they in the AFL?

They wish! Another righteously proud club though from all reports.

 

[terrybull]

Next new club the AFL should ask Fitzroy FC first. If they want to be the Hobart Lions or whatever. So it be like South Melbourne - Sydney with all history intact. Then it"s up to the members if they want their team on the big stage again, but most probably far away from home...

 

[Bokonon_]

Next new club the AFL should ask Fitzroy FC first. If they want to be the Hobart Lions or whatever. So it be like South Melbourne - Sydney with all history intact. Then it"s up to the members if they want their team on the big stage again, but most probably far away from home...

Interesting idea, but I'm not going there until I know the views of you know who.

 

[terrybull]

Interesting idea, but I'm not going there until I know the views of you know who.

What the AFL did to Fitzroy was an utter disgrace and they had the funds to save them (but their argument at the time was AFL can't have more than 16 teams). They could have at least offered to save Fitzroy's AFL licence by giving them an option to move to become Gold Coast Lions, West Sydney Lions, Hobart Lions or even Canberra Lions and help them set up there.

By just asking the Fitzroy FC first if they want back in but in a new location, is acknowledging their past mistake in their treatment of the club. Then it's up to the current members, they may be happy where they are, but it might give all their supporters past and present little relief that the AFL is finally admitting they were ruthless in removing Fitzroy from the AFL.

 

[Bokonon_]

What the AFL did to Fitzroy was an utter disgrace and they had the funds to save them (but their argument at the time was AFL can't have more than 16 teams). They could have at least offered to save Fitzroy's AFL licence by giving them an option to move to become Gold Coast Lions, West Sydney Lions, Hobart Lions or even Canberra Lions and help them set up there.

No argument from me. Although never a Melbourne resident I am a traditionalist and stiĺl recall watching good Fitzroy teams play. A young Paul Roos as a big wingman running freely for example. I have enough respect for supporters of any club ( struggle with Port but I'm trying to improve) to feel empathy for them. I just meant that there is a Fitzroy poster who deserves respect, and I wasn't going to risk crossing him. Partly tongue in cheek, but not ironic or sarcastic.

 

[terrybull]

No argument from me. Although never a Melbourne resident I am a traditionalist and stiĺl recall watching good Fitzroy teams play. A young Paul Roos as a big wingman running freely for example. I have enough respect for supporters of any club ( struggle with Port but I'm trying to improve) to feel empathy for them. I just meant that there is a Fitzroy poster who deserves respect, and I wasn't going to risk crossing him. Partly tongue in cheek, but not ironic or sarcastic.

Yeah I'm a traditionalist too, but also love new clubs entering the AFL, but without the destruction of old clubs.

 

[Bokonon_]

I agree, but apart from possibly the South relocation I dont think it has.

 

[Tedeski]

With A League expansion being on the agenda is it time to start talking about another new AFL team. Currently Canberra, the Northern Territory, Tasmania and Cairns do not have AFL teams. Should a new AFL team be formed

Yes!
To replace one of the Vic teams hanging by a thread!

 

[footyfan1978]

I'm a bit over listening to how we've caused global warming, earthquakes and plagues.
Ok over it now and ready to move on

Not so quick, noticed you did not mention the Great Fire of London. As if you guys had nothing to do with that too.

 

[Bokonon_]

Not so quick, noticed you did not mention the Great Fire of London. As if you guys had nothing to do with that too.

Cant see any obvious link. But wouldn't be surprised.
Still getting over the shock when I first joined BF of a poster seriously claiming we were responsible for Fitroys demise. I like being able to watch the traditional Melbourne clubs play at Spotless dont get me wrong.It's an opportunity I've never had before, couldn't bring myself to support the Swans.

 

[footyfan1978]

Cant see any obvious link. But wouldn't be surprised.

Follow anything back long enough to do with Grubby Allan or Tom Scully's Dad, and Mike Fitzpatrick time back in London and you will find all the evidence you need.

 

[Capt Hindsight]

The club relocation/merger period isn't coming back any time soon.
If extra areas like Tasmania get a team it will because the league expands.
Expansion means more games and more money for league HQ (only thing they care about it seems).
Below is a crazy idea:
The only way you can make professional Australian rules football have a fixture where everyone plays each other twice, keep the traditional teams, and expand with teams in new markets is as follows.
2 Divisions.
24 teams in total.
AFL premiership (top division) 12 teams.
AFL championship (2nd division) 12 teams.
Promotion relegation.
Everyone in their division plays a 22 round regular season home and away to each team.
Division 1 top 6 play finals for the AFL premiership. Bottom 2 automatically demoted to division 2. 7th and 10th play off with the 2 losers demoted to division 2.
Division 2 1st place wins the AFL championship. Top 2 placed sides get promoted automatically. 3rd to 6th play off for the other two spots.

To make 24 teams add: Tasmania, Canberra, North Queensland (Townsville/Cairns), Northern Territory, Newcastle, Wollongong/South Sydney.

Salary cap is the same across both divisions.
Draft simply last placed team in division 2 gets first pick and AFL premiership winner gets pick 24.
Top 6 teams in division 1 banned from recruiting from free agency market.

 

[Established1870]

What the AFL did to Fitzroy was an utter disgrace and they had the funds to save them (but their argument at the time was AFL can't have more than 16 teams). They could have at least offered to save Fitzroy's AFL licence by giving them an option to move to become Gold Coast Lions, West Sydney Lions, Hobart Lions or even Canberra Lions and help them set up there.

By just asking the Fitzroy FC first if they want back in but in a new location, is acknowledging their past mistake in their treatment of the club. Then it's up to the current members, they may be happy where they are, but it might give all their supporters past and present little relief that the AFL is finally admitting they were ruthless in removing Fitzroy from the AFL.

I don't want to be the bad guy in this scenario, my great uncle was a huge Roys supporter and I take on the Lions as my defacto second team because of it, but, Fitzroy were always being booted to make room for Port, hence why they couldn't just relocate but merge or fold entirely. Fitzroy relocating to Canberra would've done a lot for the game up there and saved the club big time, but it wasn't to be. They aren't getting back in the AFL as a Melbourne or interstate club.

 

[bergholt]

The club relocation/merger period isn't coming back any time soon.
If extra areas like Tasmania get a team it will because the league expands.
Expansion means more games and more money for league HQ (only thing they care about it seems).

Generally agree, but I think 24 is too far away, won't happen any time soon. I think more likely is something like:

21 teams
three conferences of 7
26 games a year per team
- play your conference twice (12 games)
- play other two conferences once (14 games)
slightly larger lists (about 50) and more player rotation
season goes late March to late August - no byes
September and October are finals which are about 8 weeks
- have to win your conference to have a chance at the grand final
- "bottom" two conference winners play off for it
pre-season comp goes, might turn into summer league in Feb
- a handful of games that mean nothing
- inexperienced and unsigned players only
- makes sense only if there's a couple of list spots open for another player signing period in early March
not sure if you'd move teams between conferences regularly, I feel like that would be a good thing but other sports don't really do it
new teams would be:
- Darwin
- Tassie
- NZ?

Currently the AFL has just over 200 games to sell for broadcast rights. Under this system there would be about 300.

Currently there are about 800 players in the league, under this system there would be over 1000, which would obviously dilute quality a bit.

I reckon you could get to this by about 2030. At that point the AFL would clearly be the premier sporting comp in the country, if it's not already.

 

[Power Raid]

Canberra is an obvious market for a stand alone side.

 

[Bokonon_]

Canberra is an obvious market for a stand alone side.

Maybe
I'm not opposed but it seems from the stadium redevelopment plans we are expecting a presence there for a long time. Wonder if club loyalty would be an issue in rhe early years? We have a lot of dual members and I know many are Sydney locals but cwrtainly not all.
Maybe the stereotype of Canberra that it's all public servants who move there and possibly take their club loyalties with them is out of date. Just curious.