Autopsy Dogs 🐕 pantsed by injury depleted Cats 🐱 97-75

[TiAn_]

Bevo played down Stewart's influence in the post match presser .... but gave him 5 coaches votes.

Never change Bevo

Votes probably done by an assistant tbh

 

[yebach]

So many possibilities there, NW.

I reckon it starts with a chaotic forward line (see the earlier comments from Brad Johnson, Lloyd and whoever else about the dysfunction down there) but it is compounded by poor, indiscriminate, shallow or bombed entries (or sometimes a combination of several of those ).

A really instructive video would be a compilation of some of Geelong's goals alongside some of our botched attempts. Even if it is deliberate cherry-picking it could demonstrate how it should be done and how not to do it. Some illustrations/impressions from last night:

• When the ball was bombed to a crowded WB forward line we didn't take any pack marks. It was either an intercept by Geelong or a contested ground ball. Geelong dealt with the Naughton /Weightman high marking threat really well. The only time that a bomb like that resulted in a goal to us was when it spilled out and a hail-mary 15.5m kick out of a scrimmage was marked impressively by O'Donnell in front of his opponent 10m out. Moral: we're wasting our time with bombs, even if Naughton is down there. We have to be more creative. The occasional Naughton screamer should be the icing, not the cake.
• Jamarra and Lobb often take their i50 marks (or marks just outside 50) on the lead. Jamarra especially has really sticky hands and at times is reminiscent of a fast leading Simon Beasley. As I posted earlier he needs to be more composed or constructive with his kicks if he is at his range limit. Lobb however has a really good range and is relatively accurate even from an angle on 50. Moral 1: we should be trying to maximise these sorts of opportunities but getting Marra to think more about his usage. Moral 2: Cut the Lobb on the wing crap.
• Somebody said our small forwards gave us nothing but I thought Weightman did quite a bit of good work, including off the ball. He also had two GAs. I'd agree in Arty's case unfortunately. He's probably due for a spell back in VFL.
• To give credit where it's due we did have one very impressive entry (2nd qtr I think), where we went coast to coast via Duryea on the wing and Weightman marked about 35m out and goaled. Maybe also that first goal to Naughton was from quick movement into an uncrowded forward line. Those transitions were all too rare though. Moral: the fast ball movement by hand and foot can pay off but it depends on our HBFs and midfielders not panicking or kicking blindly to a turnover. If the opposition pressure on the ball carrier is too great and/or the options ahead are covered we need to release sideways, slow it down, retain possession, chip it around on the HFF and wait for the eventual leadup or player in space. Not every foray forward can be scintillating slingshot footy.
• Geelong seemed to score a few easy goals out the back. There was even one to lumbering Hawkins. We didn't score any, as far as I can recall. Instead we had the usual 3-4 forwards or defenders flying for the ball, often with nobody front and centre and nobody out the back. Meanwhile Geelong had one in the aerial contest and 3-4 waiting for the scraps. The moral of that should be obvious.
• Geelong scored - what was it? - maybe 10 of their 15 goals from turnovers. They simply zoned off well, applied pressure on the ball carrier and receivers and waited for us to make the errors. It won the game for them. Moral: STOP TURNING THE F**KING THING OVER!

EDIT 1: Now that I think about it Naughton did take a CM (maybe 4th qtr), but not sure if it was in a pack. Just scraped in for a point, RH side of goals.
EDIT 2: We did manage to score some quick goals from out of the midfield, one was from Bailey Smith I think. Moral: How about we have our forwards spread more often to the pockets/flanks drawing defenders away from the centre, rather than cluster about 30m out? This would clear space for midfielders to run further inside 50, or at least for our best CM forward (Naughton) to have fewer than three spoiling opponents. Just a thought, Mr Spangher. Something has to change.

We've been playing this way long before Spangher was cherry picked.
Our press is too aggressive and we've been trained to handball when we should kick which against the better coached teams invites pressure on the handball receiver, which results in a long bomb to no one or a turnover.

 

[_Mike_]

The Dogs kicked 10.15 from 51 inside 50s on Saturday night

There's the reason for the loss right there, inefficient entries and missed shots

 

[LondonBulldog]

The Dogs kicked 10.15 from 51 inside 50s on Saturday night

There's the reason for the loss right there, inefficient entries and missed shots

Agreed yet inefficient entries is not just down to poor ball use. Its also structure, and forcing turnovers in the middle of the ground to have easy entries inside 50. Its a combination of factors. Geelong's pressure forwards and then there clean transition to an open forward line killed us. Our structure is a little off at the moment, hopefully we find it this friday.

 

[Jeff 1975]

Daniel was a defender the entire game. Our back 7 was Jones, Gardner, O’Brien, Richards, Duryea, Dale & Daniel. Scott was moved back after Richards went down. The structure in defence was fine (because O’Donnell was forward) but the personnel leaves a lot to be desired.

I don’t like Caleb as a defender but we actually have no choice now with JJ & Ed down. Without those two, we have one effective distributor in Dale and the rest are solid at best. We’re going to have to bring in another hybrid defender now with the injury to Richards.

Daniel seemed to be in the midfield and forward a lot, had shots on goal, kick one and missed a couple
Agree went back after the reshuffle, one of our best on the day

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Most people are making the assumption that it's a forward sync problem. But is it .... conclusively? If the I50 is bombing it long then it's likely a lot of players will congregate at the fall of the ball. Is that what those delivering I50 are being asked to do? Bomb it long to a contest.

From all that Bevo has alluded to, I get the impression that that is not what they're being challenged to do. I can think of a number of times when JUH has kicked an I50 for Naughts to lead onto and vice versa and I imagine that when Naughts or Juh see that one or the other is kicking I50 they'll be more inclined to lead accordingly.

Could it be that the fwds simply do not have the required faith that those delivering I50 will honour their leads or kick to their advantage with any consistency so they're congregating in a likely spot in the hope that they'll at least halve the contest and then it becomes an all in. Is it/our Bevo's preference to kick to packs or contests with crumbers?

Are we looking in the right place for the problem?

I tend to agree. The players that kick to a leading forward most often are the other forwards (and Bont).

 

[Next Waiting]

I tend to agree. The players that kick to a leading forward most often are the other forwards (and Bont).

This lends itself to what I believe is the main problem and one that Bevo has alluded to in his convoluted but endearing way.

If you're a forward and you see Bailey Smith with ball in hand or Libba kicking out of a pack, what do you think they think is the most likely outcome? Astonishingly, they probably anticipate exactly the same as I do. A bomb to a contest.

 

[Next Waiting]

Another observation in theory. JOD on Tom Stewart. The match up has copped a bit of criticism here but I wonder ........

Eade put Wallis on Fyfe at the height of his powers and McCartney the same with Jongy. Essentially sending them to school.

Is it possible that this was Bevo's brief? Play on him, learn from him, because he is what I want you to become......by September.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Another observation in theory. JOD on Tom Stewart. The match up has copped a bit of criticism here but I wonder ........

Eade put Wallis on Fyfe at the height of his powers and McCartney the same with Jongy. Essentially sending them to school.

Is it possible that this was Bevo's brief? Play on him, learn from him, because he is what I want you to become......by September.

Whether he is being played as a defensive forward on key defenders, or if its part of the long term goal of getting him first hand view of what the best defenders do in anticipation for a long term role in defence, who knows? I think he needs to go back, where he can get more involved.

I don't think his lack of production is because is a poor forward. I think his lack of production is near purposeful based on his role and how he is used in the forward line. Rarely see the ball kicked in his direction in general, or on the lead into space anywhere.

 

[dergert]

We are having plenty of shots on goal and fwd 50 entries.

Need to tidy that s**t up.

Nothing is as worse as it seems.

 

[Next Waiting]

Whether he is being played as a defensive forward on key defenders, or if its part of the long term goal of getting him first hand view of what the best defenders do in anticipation for a long term role in defence, who knows? I think he needs to go back, where he can get more involved.

I don't think his lack of production is because is a poor forward. I think his lack of production is near purposeful based on his role and how he is used in the forward line. Rarely see the ball kicked in his direction in general, or on the lead into space anywhere.

TBF, we rarely see the ball kicked in anyone's direction, to anyone's advantage or to anyone's lead, if there is one.

Whether he is sent back to the VFL very largely depends on the internal assessment of his capacity to learn quickly from experience, and his potential.

If he keeps being selected then I would take that as confirmation that he is assessed internally as having a significant capacity to both learn quickly and improve quickly. From the outside in, that may not always be obvious, but we're not setting the benchmark for performance/KPIs.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Another observation in theory. JOD on Tom Stewart. The match up has copped a bit of criticism here but I wonder ........

Eade put Wallis on Fyfe at the height of his powers and McCartney the same with Jongy. Essentially sending them to school.

Is it possible that this was Bevo's brief? Play on him, learn from him, because he is what I want you to become......by September.

Bevo doesn’t decide who JOD plays on. That’s Chris Scott’s job.

Our coaches may have anticipated Stewart taking him as he was our weakest Key fwd and may have given some direction as how to negate his intercepting to a degree. But the decision isn’t Bevo’s or our fwds to make.

If fwds decide who they man up on, Naughts or Marra would’ve taken Guthrie and we would’ve been 10 goals up at half time.

 

[geoffjennings79]

TBF, we rarely see the ball kicked in anyone's direction, to anyone's advantage or to anyone's lead, if there is one.

I fondly remember how Bruce a few seasons ago nominated Treloar as the bloke he most liked to be leading to. Ah the good old days of a leading forward who kicked more than he missed!

 

[Next Waiting]

Bevo doesn’t decide who JOD plays on. That’s Chris Scott’s job.

Our coaches may have anticipated Stewart taking him as he was our weakest Key fwd and may have given some direction as how to negate his intercepting to a degree. But the decision isn’t Bevo’s or our fwds to make.

If fwds decide who they man up on, Naughts or Marra would’ve taken Guthrie and we would’ve been 10 goals up at half time.

Isn't it? Seems like you've fallen for Bevo's double bluff, just like Scott and Stewart did. Sure they won the battle, but the war is decided in September.

 

[Next Waiting]

I fondly remember how Bruce a few seasons ago nominated Treloar as the bloke he most liked to be leading to. Ah the good old days of a leading forward who kicked more than he missed!

Do you recall the expletive laden language he used when asked about leading to a Bailey Smith I50?

 

[dogwatch]

I fondly remember how Bruce a few seasons ago nominated Treloar as the bloke he most liked to be leading to. Ah the good old days of a leading forward who kicked more than he missed!

Pretty sure he was talking about Lipinski … who we let go.

 

[Next Waiting]

Pretty sure he was talking about Lipinski … who we let go.

Rehomed

 

[geoffjennings79]

Pretty sure he was talking about Lipinski … who we let go.

He did mention Lipinski as well, maybe he was first preference, but Treloar was definitely in that discussion. Anyway Lipinski is dead to me - not in a malicious way, he's just not our player any longer.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Do you recall the expletive laden language he used when asked about leading to a Bailey Smith I50?

"F*** that Bevo, I'm not leading f***ing 10 rows back, let Marra and Astro lead to that sh*t, feel free to play me in defence. Also I reckon it's that f***ing mullet causing the issues, so I'm getting my own luxuriant locks trimmed, to play alongside my new best mates Gards and TOB."

I'm not sure that's what he actually said, I just typed Bailey Smith, Luke Beveridge and Josh Bruce into ChatGPT and that came up!

 

[Next Waiting]

"F*** that Bevo, I'm not leading f***ing 10 rows back, let Marra and Astro lead to that sh*t, feel free to play me in defence. Also I reckon it's that f***ing mullet causing the issues, so I'm getting my own luxuriant locks trimmed, to play alongside my new best mates Gards and TOB."

I'm not sure that's what he actually said, I just typed Bailey Smith, Luke Beveridge and Josh Bruce into ChatGPT and that came up!

That's how I recall it too.

 

[Hoges64]

If fwds decide who they man up on, Naughts or Marra would’ve taken Guthrie and we would’ve been 10 goals up at half time.

I think you mean 2 goals 8 behinds up at half time.

 

[Golden_6]

IF ...​

Bevo said Cat Tom Stewart was "not a massive factor" in the round 12 post-match media conference ...

THEN ...​

I take him at his word that he meant that. But it was very interesting to then see Stewart amass a maximum 10 votes for the performance in the official AFL Coaches Association award. Bevo isn't a member of the AFLCA, and "coaching groups" are known to regularly construct those votes.


What's Damo implying here? That it's not actually Bevo that completes the weekly coaches votes?

Bevo did specifically make a point that Stewart didn't have a huge impact on the result of the game.

 

[Next Waiting]

IF ...​

Bevo said Cat Tom Stewart was "not a massive factor" in the round 12 post-match media conference ...

THEN ...​

I take him at his word that he meant that. But it was very interesting to then see Stewart amass a maximum 10 votes for the performance in the official AFL Coaches Association award. Bevo isn't a member of the AFLCA, and "coaching groups" are known to regularly construct those votes.


What's Damo implying here? That it's not actually Bevo that completes the weekly coaches votes?

Bevo did specifically make a point that Stewart didn't have a huge impact on the result of the game.

G_6, I'll thank you not to pollute this board with that idiot's inventions of controversy and scandal

 

[Golden_6]

G_6, I'll thank you not to pollute this board with that idiot's inventions of controversy and scandal

I think it's a reasonable discussion. Bevo intentionally downplayed Stewart's impact on the game (maybe to protect his decision to play O'Donnell on him), all the while people at the club are of the clear view that he was the most impactful player on the ground.

 

[Next Waiting]

I think it's a reasonable discussion. Bevo intentionally downplayed Stewart's impact on the game (maybe to protect his decision to play O'Donnell on him), all the while people at the club are of the clear view that he was the most impactful player on the ground.

Purple prefaced his THEN sh1t with the I take him at his word comment because it very conveniently leads on to the next. Might be the only time that w#@$er has taken someone at their word for the sake of a story.

No reasonable person would believe that Bevo didn't think Stewart was extremely influential. I don't think Bevo is remotely worried about having his decisions questioned, he worries about media attention on individual players. JOD in this case.