EPL Matchday 10

SM

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I think the Arsenal fans have every right to boo who they want. They pay extortionate amounts of coin for a membership to see poor performances when we really should be back on the summit.

In saying that, I think Xhaka’s reaction is a normal human one and I think most people snap if they constantly get abuse. It would be a shit feeling to be booed by your HOME fans especially after they treat you and your family poorly on social media too.

As captain, you could probably say he needed to have more restraint but I can empathise with the guy. Whether or not I think he’s played well is irrelevant.
I think I draw the line at abusing individual players but understand your perspective. Agree wholeheartedly with the rest.
 

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wadistance

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I think the Arsenal fans have every right to boo who they want. They pay extortionate amounts of coin for a membership to see poor performances when we really should be back on the summit.

In saying that, I think Xhaka’s reaction is a normal human one and I think most people snap if they constantly get abuse. It would be a shit feeling to be booed by your HOME fans especially after they treat you and your family poorly on social media too.

As captain, you could probably say he needed to have more restraint but I can empathise with the guy. Whether or not I think he’s played well is irrelevant.
And herein lies the problem.

Twist it any way you want, but my cousin-in-law's season ticket in the Südtribune (17 games) cost him the price of 1,5 Cat A tickets to an Arsenal game. Or if we're playing fair - 5 games behind the goal.

This is obviously an argument for another day - but no doubt the unrealistic price for match day tickets drives unrealistic expectations.
 

SM

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And herein lies the problem.

Twist it any way you want, but my cousin-in-law's season ticket in the Südtribune (17 games) cost him the price of 1,5 Cat A tickets to an Arsenal game. Or if we're playing fair - 5 games behind the goal.

This is obviously an argument for another day - but no doubt the unrealistic price for match day tickets drives unrealistic expectations.
There is a flaw though - paying someone's wage directly (or indirectly as is the case) doesn't give you the right to abuse them. Booing is certainly on the lower end but the flippant attitude of some to abusing your own team's player is pretty staggering. Bizarre especially from Gero who usually loves opening wide and taking his shot of Spurs shit.
 

WealstoneRaider

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This booing discussion is quite a good one. It’s pretty rare for fans to do it, which is a good thing. Our fans never got on Sissoko’s back despite him being utter shyte for two years and eventually he came good (although he’s a bit shit again now admittedly).
With Arsenal I think it’s more fans looking for a scapegoat. They’ve not been a happy bunch for a while and they’re looking for people to blame and Xhaka fits the bill. I honestly think AFTV is stirring up emotions also.
 

SM

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This booing discussion is quite a good one. It’s pretty rare for fans to do it, which is a good thing. Our fans never got on Sissoko’s back despite him being utter shyte for two years and eventually he came good (although he’s a bit shit again now admittedly).
With Arsenal I think it’s more fans looking for a scapegoat. They’re not been a happy bunch for a while and they’re looking for people to blame and Xhaka fits the bill. I honestly think AFTV is stirring up emotions also.
Should be aimed at the owners. Emery shows it wasn't necessarily a Wenger thing.
 

WealstoneRaider

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Should be aimed at the owners. Emery shows it wasn't necessarily a Wenger thing.
Owners kinda put the cash up this summer though, that’s probably why it’s begun to switch to the playing staff and manager.
Fans don’t start booing players after a few crap performances. It takes a long time for them to turn on their own players. And generally it only happens when fans are unhappy with things more widely.
 

SM

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Owners kinda put the cash up this summer though, that’s probably why it’s begun to switch to the playing staff and manager.
Fans don’t start booing players after a few crap performances. It takes a long time for them to turn on their own players. And generally it only happens when fans are unhappy with things more widely.
But that 'more widely' is kinda my point. If they aren't happy with the quality of the players - that's on the owner/manager. If they aren't happy with the appointment of the manager that's on the owner. Basically the only time I would think to boo the players is in a really terrible performance. A 2-2 draw with a side having a great season is not that. To have it compared to a side that set the record for the worst home top flight performance is kind of laughable.
 

WealstoneRaider

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But that 'more widely' is kinda my point. If they aren't happy with the quality of the players - that's on the owner/manager. If they aren't happy with the appointment of the manager that's on the owner. Basically the only time I would think to boo the players is in a really terrible performance. A 2-2 draw with a side having a great season is not that. To have it compared to a side that set the record for the worst home top flight performance is kind of laughable.
You can’t really be throwing two goal leads at home to Palace though, not really acceptable for a club like Arsenal.
I understand your point and booing the performance rather than singling out one player is more the norm. As I said I think it’s the fan channel that is starting to influence the crowd. Then again I don’t see Arsenal week in week out to judge just how poor Xhaka has been. Also bear in mind booing players can have a positive affect on said player, although that’s probably rare. Where I disagree with you is fans having a right to do it. I don’t think you can make a comparison with a normal working person either. But even then if you are part of a team and a colleague is letting the side down then that person will be made to feel uncomfortable. We have all worked with someone who doesn’t pull their weight or is generally shit at their job. You might not sit their booing him but I bet you slag them off with your colleagues behind their back! No one is immune from criticism and booing at a match is the most vocal way to express that
 

bok_party

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I think I draw the line at abusing individual players but understand your perspective. Agree wholeheartedly with the rest.
It’s a hard one though. I don’t boo in general but when a home crowd does it to the away team say Adebayor or RVP, then I think it’s just a bit of banter (I know it’s not always) and it’s certainly better than being racist etc but booing your own player is a strange one no matter how poor you think he’s been. Personally these days, it’s gonna make the player play worse and not fire him up to prove you wrong.

I was at the Newcastle and Brighton game and the home fans were booing their own team at half-time. I’d never really seen that before in person.
 

Cruyff14

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There is a flaw though - paying someone's wage directly (or indirectly as is the case) doesn't give you the right to abuse them. Booing is certainly on the lower end but the flippant attitude of some to abusing your own team's player is pretty staggering. Bizarre especially from Gero who usually loves opening wide and taking his shot of Spurs shit.
But people have different opinions, it seems like that is what you're struggling to grasp the most.
 

jd2010

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It won't be long until we see Eriksen booed off at tottenham (like trippier last year). If fans are unhappy with performances they aren't going to sit their in silence are they. They aren't going to say bad luck Christian good luck in Turin. They'll boo him if he puts in insipid performances like has been. If he was going okay and was booed just for leaving the club I wouldn't agree with that because it's his right to leave and earn what he is worth. But when a player is detrimental to your team you've got every right to voice your displeasure
 

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peternorth

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There's some salient points that Im not sure have been raised, or if so all good play on:

1. People pay hard earned money (and pay taxes) to watch their team play. They expect a certain standard of play and behaviour, or "the product". if something is amiss, people, emotional, vent.

2. Simultaneously, the pitch is the players workplace. And receiving criticism/boos, they could argue they're being bullied.
 

SM

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But people have different opinions, it seems like that is what you're struggling to grasp the most.
You keep burying your head in the sand using that as a defence. You still haven't acknowledged that claiming booing isn't abuse isn't a difference of opinion. If I punch you in the face and you call that assault, I can't claim it isn't and say that we have different opinions on what assault is.
 

Cruyff14

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You keep burying your head in the sand using that as a defence. You still haven't acknowledged that claiming booing isn't abuse isn't a difference of opinion. If I punch you in the face and you call that assault, I can't claim it isn't and say that we have different opinions on what assault is.
I don't see booing as abuse.

I'm not sure how I'd define it.
 

glenferry23

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Funny thing you and cruyff have in common is your cowardice. Quote me when responding to me and name me when you're talking about me.

Cute that you jump in to use the excuse to have your weekly crack. Run along.
I was trying to figure out who he was referring to, but I guess it was you? All that self aware talk had me thinking of Skynet :D
 

SM

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Voicing displeasure doesn't always constitute abuse
Booing isn't voicing displeasure.

But you've tried to compare booing your teams player to Trump so..

This conversation has probably run its course. The wider opinion seems to be Arsenal fans are toxic but BF thinks they were within their right. Oh well.
 

jd2010

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And abusing disrespectful behaviour is also not always a bad thing.

Booing Bulgarian racists. Booing a disrespectful captain. Fans have they're right to abuse as long as it's not racial or homophobic
 

WealstoneRaider

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Booing shouldn’t be classed as abuse, if we get to the stage where it is classed as such then I think we’re in trouble.
How many people here though would actually boo one of their own players? I doubt many would, in fact I can’t really think of one poster here who would do it. Certainly not Cruyffy...
 

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