Essendon can't live without pokies funding says David Barham

[ferball]

And some things are more addictive than others. Pokies have been engineered with light and sound and payouts to be incredibly addictive and Aristocrat keeps making them more addictive every day.

100% this.

Most addicted pokie users aren't even gambling, they're stuck in an immersive trance induced by the machine. Even the little wins they get aren't necessarily about the money, just the positive feedback.

 

[Caligo]

100% this.

Most addicted pokie users aren't even gambling, they're stuck in an immersive trance induced by the machine. Even the little wins they get aren't necessarily about the money, just the positive feedback.

Just evil.

 

[ferball]

North's wasn't a courageous decision. Their venues continued to haemorrhage money. It was a business decision and only that. They were smart to get infront of the media and span it to suit the narrative.
A month after getting rid of their pokies they released "roobet" which also tanked.

Melbourne's wasn't courageous either. They got offered a ton of money from the VRC for leighoak club (well above what it was valued at and what would've taken years to make) so they sold. Bentleigh club was losing money years before they got out of it

And before you bring the hawks into it, had the hawks not been offered a sweetheart deal, they'd still be in the pokies game

To pretend clubs give a damn about the community is stupid. Clubs are clubs in name only, they're for all purposes a business who hide behind a club moniker to avoid tax

As has been said before, decisions made before 2008 don't count cos they were made by people intent on killing the club. Roobet was an AFL driven thing and every club had a short lived version. (One of the most successful crypto casinos on earth, i think the crypto market is the only one that's had more success, is now called Roobet too. A bit weird considering its hosted in Asia iirc.)

After we left pokies no other club did for nearly a decade. That was during the most financially difficult time we'd ever been thru.

After the grass roots uprising that rejected the club killing move to the Glod Coast the club changed its direction to be less business motivated and more a club. The Huddle, which every club has copied since, was meant to embed us in the community as an organisation that does more than just succeed in a business sense.

You might think footy clubs being about community is stupid but your club was run by a neo liberal campaigner who hated community so its no wonder you think that way. Its seeped into your soul...

People follow footy clubs because the experience makes their lives richer (in a non financial sense) and more meaningful, not for any other reason.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Money from sports betting is not cleaner or more socially conscious than money from pokies.

The morality or social consciousness of gambling in general isn't the issue here - because society has accepted it's a permissible activity.

If you have the moral viewpoint that all gambling in and of itself is bad (or at the very least should not be profit-driven and government run like a lottery or how many Europrean countries regulate their gambling markets), that's a fair enough viewpoint to have.

But your viewpoint isn't the issue here. The AFL, made up by its clubs, generally made up by members who operate in a democratic system, don't share that, and generally find the stronger public health issue of pokies to be worse than that of sports gambling.

So that makes it ok then?

Like cigar smokers criticizing cigarette smokers because cigars are less harmful.

I'm not sure this is really a gotcha because there are actually different regulations for different tobacco products, so a general society recognition that they should be treated differently?

 

[ferball]

Money from sports betting is not cleaner or more socially conscious than money from pokies.

There is a difference between gambling and pokies. I don't have a gambling app so I dunno what they're like but even addictive devices don't create the same immersive environment a room full of pokies (and nothing else) does. Its ****ed up. The noises, sights and the way the machines pay out create a situation where vulnerable people can spend their time and money effectively wasted on electronic smack.

All other gambling is different and involves different interactions in a less immersive environment.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

There is a difference between gambling and pokies. I don't have a gambling app so I dunno what they're like but even addictive devices don't create the same immersive environment a room full of pokies (and nothing else) does. Its ****ed up. The noises, sights and the way the machines pay out create a situation where vulnerable people can spend their time and money effectively wasted on electronic smack.

All other gambling is different and involves different interactions in a less immersive environment.

At least with pokies you know what you’re getting into once you step foot into the casino or pub (licensed premises).

Are gambling ads targeted at vulnerable youth (most who do not sports bet) more or less ethical? How impossible is it to keep clear of Sportsbet in the hour up to a game? It is predatory.

I think it is silly to argue one or the other based on the club you support. Again it should all be phased out of our game.

 

[Caligo]

At least with pokies you know what you’re getting into once you step foot into the casino or pub (licensed premises).

Are gambling ads targeted at vulnerable youth (most who do not sports bet) more or less ethical? How impossible is it to keep clear of Sportsbet in the hour up to a game? It is predatory.

I think it is silly to argue one or the other based on the club you support. Again it should all be phased out of our game.

Whilst I think pokies are worse, I hate them both to an extreme extent and want them both out of the game and out of regulated so significantly that they are phased out of society (like we are doing with cigarettes). I am not trying to find moral high ground with respect to my club. We should have dumped them long long long ago.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Whilst I think pokies are worse, I hate them both to an extreme extent and want them both out of the game and out of regulated so significantly that they are phased out of society (like we are doing with cigarettes). I am not trying to find moral high ground with respect to my club. We should have dumped them long long long ago.

I think we've reached the tipping point where most AFL supporters would be against having their club involved with pokies. From my own observation it seems mostly due to change in generational attitudes because I don't know anybody my own age that doesn't see pokies to be anything other than theft with bells and bright lights. Everyone I know understands that they're built with an inevitability of loss so the owner can make money; betting on horses or football is not utopian but it is not the same as guaranteed loss. At some point public opinion will shift such that pokies won't be available in random pubs like they are now and so in the next few years I expect Essendon & the others to follow suit away from pokies when a convenient opportunity arises.

Unfortunately, this is BF Main Board and so like every other topic, posters will try to wrangle some superior club dick beating out of it.

 

[Caligo]

I think we've reached the tipping point where most AFL supporters would be against having their club involved with pokies. From my own observation it seems mostly due to change in generational attitudes because I don't know anybody my own age that doesn't see pokies to be anything other than theft with bells and bright lights. Everyone I know understands that they're built with an inevitability of loss so the owner can make money; betting on horses or football is not utopian but it is not the same as guaranteed loss. At some point public opinion will shift such that pokies won't be available in random pubs like they are now and so in the next few years I expect Essendon & the others to follow suit away from pokies when a convenient opportunity arises.

Unfortunately, this is BF Main Board and so like every other topic, posters will try to wrangle some superior club dick beating out of it.

I don't know about Melbourne, but in Sydney pokies have such a dominant political hold over both the Liberal and Labor parties that I can't imagine any level of community sentiment will ever free us of them. The AHA own both state parties here in NSW.

I expect pokies in pubs and clubs for my entire life (which I hope has at least 50 years left).

Obviously I am right with you about the pointless BF dick measuring thing.

 

[Donakebab]

Pokies are scourge on society and its a travesty a majority deadshit members voted to retain them.

 

[yodellinhank]

The Huddle, which every club has copied since, was meant to embed us in the community as an organisation that does more than just succeed in a business sense.

Globall predates The Huddle.

 

[ferball]

Globall predates The Huddle.

It doesn't even exist any more.

 

[yodellinhank]

It doesn't even exist any more.

So then North weren't copied by every other club since. Why lie about stuff?

 

[ferball]

The only online reference I can find to GLoBALL was from 2013. Are you sure its not some spreadsheet reduction organisation?

 

[Bjo187]

I don't know about Melbourne, but in Sydney pokies have such a dominant political hold over both the Liberal and Labor parties that I can't imagine any level of community sentiment will ever free us of them. The AHA own both state parties here in NSW.

I expect pokies in pubs and clubs for my entire life (which I hope has at least 50 years left).

Obviously I am right with you about the pointless BF dick measuring thing.

More so labor in nsw, pokies funds their campaigns and the libs went to the election on cracking down on them, labor basically threw that out when they got in.

 

[Caligo]

More so labor in nsw, pokies funds their campaigns and the libs went to the election on cracking down, labor basically threw that out when they got in.

Libs get huge amounts from the AHA and their "crackdown" was a lettuce leaf. But Labor is even worse so, that is something I guess ?

 

[Bjo187]

Libs get huge amounts from the AHA and their "crackdown" was a lettuce leaf. But Labor is even worse so, that is something I guess ?

Both parties kicking the can down the road because they get so much tax out of them plus they even own some venues themselves.

 

[Boppo]

Is anyone surprised at all that clubs like Essendon, Richmond and Carlton still has pokies? We all know these clubs do not care about local communities and would happily see them degrade even further to balance their books.

 

[terrybull]

There is a difference between gambling and pokies. I don't have a gambling app so I dunno what they're like but even addictive devices don't create the same immersive environment a room full of pokies (and nothing else) does. Its ****ed up. The noises, sights and the way the machines pay out create a situation where vulnerable people can spend their time and money effectively wasted on electronic smack.

All other gambling is different and involves different interactions in a less immersive environment.

The slot apps mimic the lights and sounds of pokies.

And it’s easier and faster to run out of money. So I see them just as bad for those that can’t control themselves.

You misunderstood me about the cigar-cigarettes argument. I just want to point out that people with their own vices like to point the finger to other people’s vices that they think is worse.

 

[ferball]

Fair enough.

 

[My_Username]

North fans talk as if they're some kind of moral leaders because they don't have pokies, but the only reason they don't is because they were forced to sell them because they were so broke they couldn't get the money to continue operating any other way. If the AFL had loaned them a bit more money to cover their debts back then, they'd joyfully have the additional revenue stream to this day.

------

I agree with earlier posters...Yes, pokies are evil, but given that changing the ownership of them only changes who gets the profits, and doesn't affect the punters in any way, what difference does it make if a football club owns them?

Show me a way to reduce the number of machines out there, or make them less addictive, and I'll support it, but if you're think that changing the owners makes any difference at all, you're kidding yourselves.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

100% this.

Most addicted pokie users aren't even gambling, they're stuck in an immersive trance induced by the machine. Even the little wins they get aren't necessarily about the money, just the positive feedback.

Having worked in numerous venues, most gamblers were gambling away their issues. DV for younger people (pokie venues are controlled, they are safe from the perpetrator) and drug issues (the amount of addicts that would come in was huge)

Loneliness in older people was massive, they'd go in because they had noone, but the staff would know their name, their story.

By contrast, my time in TABs was what you hear about pokies. People spending evey cent, in a trance at the screen and talking to noone.

Obviously my experience was in the east/south-east so it'd be different to the west, but it's external issues which impact pokie use

From a personal perspective, my mother was a pokie addict, and it was because she was in a DV situation. When that relationship ended she stopped gambling for 2 years. Then I left home and she started again. She had a friend move in, and lo-and-behold, the gambling eased

 

[Gavin Excell]

Having worked in numerous venues, most gamblers were gambling away their issues. DV for younger people (pokie venues are controlled, they are safe from the perpetrator) and drug issues (the amount of addicts that would come in was huge)

Loneliness in older people was massive, they'd go in because they had noone, but the staff would know their name, their story.

By contrast, my time in TABs was what you hear about pokies. People spending evey cent, in a trance at the screen and talking to noone.

Obviously my experience was in the east/south-east so it'd be different to the west, but it's external issues which impact pokie use

From a personal perspective, my mother was a pokie addict, and it was because she was in a DV situation. When that relationship ended she stopped gambling for 2 years. Then I left home and she started again. She had a friend move in, and lo-and-behold, the gambling eased

That's pretty sad reading

 

[Aussie in exile]

What a sad state of affairs when a sports club has to rely on pokies.
Gambling is an evil for sure and ruins peoples lives and relationships.

 

[citizen-erased]

Start winning or looking like a professional sports outfit and you can gouge us more and do away with the pesky pokies.