Coach Fages and the coaching group

[McIvor]

‘Hanging by a thread’: Brisbane in need of ‘facelift’ as loyalty threatens season

‘Hanging by a thread’: Lions in need of ‘facelift’ as loyalty threatens season

www.foxsports.com.au

Nailed it

Absolutely; watched the episode and no doubt most on here will dismiss their views because they aren’t experts and really what would they know.

A lot on here have been saying for ages that it is massive issue at Fagan’s unwillingness to play more than the standard 26-28 players despite Fagan himself proclaiming that squads win flags and to start playing the kids and for once dropping these so called “names” in our squad but again such views when presented on here are shot down. I almost expect that if an assistant suggested such things Fagan would give them the death stare.

It’s not surprising that many in the football world are cottoning onto what many on here have been saying for ages.

 

[McIvor]

Hope that's not the same course Dom Fay and Michael Whiting took!

I look forward to those two actually critically evaluating where the club is at instead of the constant back slapping but I wouldn’t be holding my breath.

 

[Tom14]

No, I thought it was a bit of a disappointing, superficial take from Montagna. When I saw there was a video I was hoping for some match vision and a deeper dive into the strategy, but alas, not to be. He's better than that.

I haven't watched First Crack yet tho so maybe there is some of that elsewhere in the show.

Yeah the ‘13 players are the same as the 2020 prelim’ thing was stupid - these are the players:

Harris
Payne
Lester
Starce
Clug
Linc
Zorko
Rayner
Hipwood
Cameron
Neale
Ah Chee
Berry

Of those I’d only say Zorko and Lester were old players at the time. The rest were young or in their prime.

Which ones does Joey want droppped?

I also looked at the cats team from that night - reckon there’s at least 13 of that lineup that are in their best 22 still. That’s not even counting Gary Rohan or Jed bews who are playing vfl right now.

The reason we have the least debutants this year is pretty simple imo - we didn’t have a first round pick that got an early debut because we traded it away for Dunkley. Lohmann is getting an extended run for the first time in his career too.

Looking at the ball movement stuff is more interesting than selection nonsense.

 

[Tom14]

Yeah the ‘13 players are the same as the 2020 prelim’ thing was stupid - these are the players:

Harris
Payne
Lester
Starce
Clug
Linc
Zorko
Rayner
Hipwood
Cameron
Neale
Ah Chee
Berry

Of those I’d only say Zorko and Lester were old players at the time. The rest were young or in their prime.

Which ones does Joey want droppped?

I also looked at the cats team from that night - reckon there’s at least 13 of that lineup that are in their best 22 still. That’s not even counting Gary Rohan or Jed bews who are playing vfl right now.

The reason we have the least debutants this year is pretty simple imo - we didn’t have a first round pick that got an early debut because we traded it away for Dunkley. Lohmann is getting an extended run for the first time in his career too.

Looking at the ball movement stuff is more interesting than selection nonsense.

Pies had 13 players in their semi final v Geelong in 2020 that are still part of their 22. Kinda shocked me, they forcibly traded out 3-4 players from that team (Grundy, Stephenson, treloar, Adams to an extent) but still have a similar number.

Of the good teams I reckon GWS has probably had the most consistent turnover - reality of having a surplus of first round picks all the time. Their team in the final round of 2020 had 10 current members of the best 22.

I really don’t think this number is an outlier at all.

 

[rye]

i dont really care for the point about lack of debutants this year fwiw

players on the list yet to debut:

doedee
ryan
brain
lane
lloyd
morris
bruce
smith
torrent
zakostelsky

doedee is obviously not debuting for the club this year

ryan, zakostelsky, torrent all have had some form of injury leading into the season. of these, ryan probably the one most likely to get a debut at some point but id like to see him get continuity in his body first

lloyd, zakostelsky, smith and lane are all project players at various stages in their development. smith may get a debut this year at some point, the other 3 are 0 chance.

morris looks good but i am always wary of playing kpp players in their first year. the jump from vfl to afl level is the greatest for a young key forward and i would not want to ruin his development. maybe one to flag for a debut next year.

this leaves bruce and brain. i think bruce has some AFL level traits and would like to see him get a gig at some stage. Brain is playing a role we are already trying to fit zorko, mckenna, wilmot and answerth into in the seniors. he has to wait for injury imo. i think torrent has a similar issue but maybe he is flexible enough to play elsewhere, looks a natural hbf to me.

of all these players, i think bruce and ryan should definitely debut at some point and the rest are all unlikely. would like to see torrent and brain get a look in but they probably require multiple injuries really.

 

[rye]

Absolutely; watched the episode and no doubt most on here will dismiss their views because they aren’t experts and really what would they know.

A lot on here have been saying for ages that it is massive issue at Fagan’s unwillingness to play more than the standard 26-28 players despite Fagan himself proclaiming that squads win flags and to start playing the kids and for once dropping these so called “names” in our squad but again such views when presented on here are shot down. I almost expect that if an assistant suggested such things Fagan would give them the death stare.

It’s not surprising that many in the football world are cottoning onto what many on here have been saying for ages.

20 Premier Richmond: 31 players featured at AFL level
21 Premier Melbourne: 34 players featured at AFL level
22 Premier Geelong: 35 players featured at AFL level
23 Premier Collingwood: 37 players featured at AFL level
23 Runner up season Brisbane Lions: 35 players featured at AFL level

???

 

[Tom14]

20 Premier Richmond: 31 players featured at AFL level
21 Premier Melbourne: 34 players featured at AFL level
22 Premier Geelong: 35 players featured at AFL level
23 Premier Collingwood: 37 players featured at AFL level
23 Runner up season Brisbane Lions: 35 players featured at AFL level

???

Wow seems like good teams play good players and don’t just hand out debuts like norf has the last 3 years!

 

[Tom14]

This selection stuff is so tired. Game style and ball movement are interesting, legitimate possible points of criticism. But the context matters a lot - kiddy being out has taken away our most dynamic player.

We spent all offseason training to do more run and carry, handball receives and got whacked between the eyes in the first game and confidence cratered.

Changing the game style during the season heavily is something I only want to do if we are basically out of contention to make finals. If we are at that point experimenting makes sense.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Yeah the ‘13 players are the same as the 2020 prelim’ thing was stupid - these are the players:

Harris
Payne
Lester
Starce
Clug
Linc
Zorko
Rayner
Hipwood
Cameron
Neale
Ah Chee
Berry

Of those I’d only say Zorko and Lester were old players at the time. The rest were young or in their prime.

Which ones does Joey want droppped?

I also looked at the cats team from that night - reckon there’s at least 13 of that lineup that are in their best 22 still. That’s not even counting Gary Rohan or Jed bews who are playing vfl right now.

The reason we have the least debutants this year is pretty simple imo - we didn’t have a first round pick that got an early debut because we traded it away for Dunkley. Lohmann is getting an extended run for the first time in his career too.

Looking at the ball movement stuff is more interesting than selection nonsense.

Based on form this year.

Hipwood
Starc
Cameron
Ah Chee
Rayner. The problem with Rayner is he has one good game then goes missing for weeks. No excuses for a #1 pick.

 

[Nathan Barley]

He wasn't comparing the current team to the 2020 team. He was highlighting how many players from that team's best 22 are still in the current best 22. 15 players.

I don't believe we're a very different team. Yes there are some new players. Definitely an upgrade in talent. But we still play the same system. Have the same weaknesses and short comings.

But that wasn't his main point. It was how few younger players get a go in our team, and how few players outside our best 22 get run in our team, and how that's hurting us.

There was literally nothing new it that article, that hasn't already been mentioned here by many posters.

We definitely don't have the same weaknesses. We no longer have the slowest backline in history, we no longer have every big bodied midfielder dominate us and we have someone capable of being an A grade key forward

Those changes mean we have a different system

I don't disagree about the lack of depth due to horrible drafting between 2017 and 2021 but we can't create players from nowhere

And there was nothing new in that article because there wasn't a lot of substance in that article

Not to mention this all wasn't an issue 8 games ago where we were hitting all the key indicators of a premiership team

 

[Viceregal]

What's this soft drink chat about?

"We’d just finished a tough session and the fridge was available for whatever we wanted,” Zorko told SEN Breakfast on Thursday morning.

“A couple of the young kids went and grabbed a can of coke.

“Hodgey goes nah, nah, nah – grabbed about six bottles of water and just walked the line and said we’re past this stage now boys, let’s be fair dinkum"

Hodge sets the tone for Zorko and teammates

Zorko discusses the moment teammate Hodge set the tone for the young Lions.

www.lions.com.au

 

[mpal6]

i dont really care for the point about lack of debutants this year fwiw

players on the list yet to debut:

doedee
ryan
brain
lane
lloyd
morris
bruce
smith
torrent
zakostelsky

doedee is obviously not debuting for the club this year

ryan, zakostelsky, torrent all have had some form of injury leading into the season. of these, ryan probably the one most likely to get a debut at some point but id like to see him get continuity in his body first

lloyd, zakostelsky, smith and lane are all project players at various stages in their development. smith may get a debut this year at some point, the other 3 are 0 chance.

morris looks good but i am always wary of playing kpp players in their first year. the jump from vfl to afl level is the greatest for a young key forward and i would not want to ruin his development. maybe one to flag for a debut next year.

this leaves bruce and brain. i think bruce has some AFL level traits and would like to see him get a gig at some stage. Brain is playing a role we are already trying to fit zorko, mckenna, wilmot and answerth into in the seniors. he has to wait for injury imo. i think torrent has a similar issue but maybe he is flexible enough to play elsewhere, looks a natural hbf to me.

of all these players, i think bruce and ryan should definitely debut at some point and the rest are all unlikely. would like to see torrent and brain get a look in but they probably require multiple injuries really.

Morris should've debuted against Collingwood at Gabba and held his spot for the last 4 games. He has shown glimpses that he belongs so us trying to cottonwool him when we're in desperate need of 3rd tall is bad planning from our part.

If we're arguing he'll develop well in VFL then playing him in a land of 5 tall forwards in our VFL side isn't making things any better for him. I wonder if he'll learn anything at all in that kind of setup.

 

[mpal6]

This selection stuff is so tired. Game style and ball movement are interesting, legitimate possible points of criticism. But the context matters a lot - kiddy being out has taken away our most dynamic player.

We spent all offseason training to do more run and carry, handball receives and got whacked between the eyes in the first game and confidence cratered.

Changing the game style during the season heavily is something I only want to do if we are basically out of contention to make finals. If we are at that point experimenting makes sense.

Keidean not being available should've had a better plan B, even if it's Brain he should be the one playing the distributor role. Zorko is 35 years old and he may even be gone next season. Brain playing in half back means we get to see if he's good enough to hold his own in AFL level and he could become a good investment long term.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Morris should've debuted against Collingwood at Gabba and held his spot for the last 4 games. He has shown glimpses that he belongs so us trying to cottonwool him when we're in desperate need of 3rd tall is bad planning from our part.

If we're arguing he'll develop well in VFL then playing him in a land of 5 tall forwards in our VFL side isn't making things any better for him. I wonder if he'll learn anything at all in that kind of setup.

I'm actually still unsure if I want Morris to debut, or Smith. Both have played well enough to get a senior debut as the third tall forward (with Smith also being relief ruck), but we shouldn't play both unless Hipwood or Daniher are out, and it's not smart to drop either of them right now.

There's probably more urgency to get Smith into the seniors so he can spell Oscar and eventually take over for him (leaving Daniher forward the whole game), plus he's older, so I'd lean towards him. But that's no slight on Morris who has been equally good if not better.

 

[western royboy]

Our list is thin, the fact that we’ve played so few tells you that. It puts ? On our drafting and development program and coaches.

I might be an outlier here but I never felt we were in the GF even when we hit the front because Collingwood always seemed to score easily when we had to scrap for every goal. That’s what it felt like on Thursday night. If you stand still you get left behind. I don’t accept the late pre season reason it’s bullshit. Close GF defeats usually go one of two ways…it sits in your guts and drives you harder or it blows everything up.

 

[buttermuffs]

"We’d just finished a tough session and the fridge was available for whatever we wanted,” Zorko told SEN Breakfast on Thursday morning.

“A couple of the young kids went and grabbed a can of coke.

“Hodgey goes nah, nah, nah – grabbed about six bottles of water and just walked the line and said we’re past this stage now boys, let’s be fair dinkum"

Hodge sets the tone for Zorko and teammates

Zorko discusses the moment teammate Hodge set the tone for the young Lions.

www.lions.com.au

Wilmot is very lucky Hodgey isn’t around nowadays.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Our list is thin, the fact that we’ve played so few tells you that. It puts ? On our drafting and development program and coaches.

I might be an outlier here but I never felt we were in the GF even when we hit the front because Collingwood always seemed to score easily when we had to scrap for every goal. That’s what it felt like on Thursday night. If you stand still you get left behind. I don’t accept the late pre season reason it’s bullshit. Close GF defeats usually go one of two ways…it sits in your guts and drives you harder or it blows everything up.

Yeah Collingwood were clearly the better side but it wouldn't have made the win any less sweet

 

[Tom14]

Our list is thin, the fact that we’ve played so few tells you that. It puts ? On our drafting and development program and coaches.

I might be an outlier here but I never felt we were in the GF even when we hit the front because Collingwood always seemed to score easily when we had to scrap for every goal. That’s what it felt like on Thursday night. If you stand still you get left behind. I don’t accept the late pre season reason it’s bullshit. Close GF defeats usually go one of two ways…it sits in your guts and drives you harder or it blows everything up.

Don't disagree with any of this and I had the same feeling about the GF. We kicked absurd goals in the first half to stay in it, were a bit lucky with Collingwood's inaccuracy in the third. But we had a chance to steal it and that's not nothing.

Morris should've debuted against Collingwood at Gabba and held his spot for the last 4 games. He has shown glimpses that he belongs so us trying to cottonwool him when we're in desperate need of 3rd tall is bad planning from our part.

If we're arguing he'll develop well in VFL then playing him in a land of 5 tall forwards in our VFL side isn't making things any better for him. I wonder if he'll learn anything at all in that kind of setup.

Sorry to multi-quote but I just don't think Morris is ready. He has shown glimpses, but no ability to consistently contribute. I agree that the Dizzy experiment needs to go, but we should play another smaller forward to address our groundball and defensive pressure issue I think.

 

[On the quiet]

The thing is we are probably winning a few of these matches against s**t teams, so those changes won't happen.

I can't see mass changes for this week, perhaps Dizzy, but IF we lost to the Suns, you would think there would have to be some changes for the next two to three games and that includes managing Neale and playing Cam as the third tall.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Zorko also revealed the Lions barely hit the training track in the leadup to last week’s smashing, which came about off a five-day break.

But that won’t be the case with a 10-day break heading into the Q-Clash against Gold Coast in Round 8.

“Given we haven’t really got moving since Thursday night, I’m expecting two bigger sessions this week,” Zorko explained.

“We didn’t really train much last week, I think we only had a 25-minute session and a really light captain’s run.

“We’ll try and get as much training in as possible this week and try and do all our injury prevention stuff and get ourselves in really good physical and mental state.

“We’ll have Wednesday off as normal and shuffle our week around accordingly… it’s a long time when you’ve had a bad result on the weekend.”

Revelation that Lions barely hit the track before Anzac Day belting - but it won't be the case this week

“We know our system can work and will work, but we were off the other night.”

www.sen.com.au

This is curious, why did we do so little training last week? Surely even in 5 days we can do more than a 25 minute session and a captains run.

 

[mpal6]

Revelation that Lions barely hit the track before Anzac Day belting - but it won't be the case this week

“We know our system can work and will work, but we were off the other night.”

www.sen.com.au

This is curious, why did we do so little training last week? Surely even in 5 days we can do more than a 25 minute session and a captains run.

Wet weather footy vs Geelong on a saturday night to a thursday turnaround.

There wouldn't be much left in tank after that game.

 

[KissKiss]

Which asks the question of are we not rotating the list enough? Should we have been making more changes so that we had fresh legs in the game?

 

[M Malice]

Revelation that Lions barely hit the track before Anzac Day belting - but it won't be the case this week

“We know our system can work and will work, but we were off the other night.”

www.sen.com.au

This is curious, why did we do so little training last week? Surely even in 5 days we can do more than a 25 minute session and a captains run.

Interesting to know what the Giants did re training that week, they were also coming off a 5 day break and were well and truly running on top of the ground in their flogging of us.

 

[mpal6]

Which asks the question of are we not rotating the list enough? Should we have been making more changes so that we had fresh legs in the game?

Great question. I was expecting changes with the wet weather game in mind. I think we went with same crew hoping for a different result. We were with them for 2 quarters but the fall away could be due to fatigue.

 

[KissKiss]

Its been a recurring theme that we back in the same 22 as much as possible, no matter the break or the conditions. But then struggle as the kids have not been given enough consistent development time. Im pretty sure if we look at the numbers we probably will have attempted to run the same 4 guys in the midfield for exactly the same %ToG and CBA

Looking back with Captain Hindsight would we have been better off resting guys for both games to be as fresh as possible across as many players as possible? Or should we have gone all in on one game (and conceded the other) and then rested a heap of players for the other?

We never look proactive (or fully professional) on this front