Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

No matter which side you are on, surely we can all agree that this is pathetic:



-Scientist who landed probe on comet wears shirt with semi-clothed cartoon women
-Extreme feminists go into rage mode
-Scientist not only apologizes. but actually breaks down and cries while grovelling to said feminists.

All over a shirt.....

 

[SterlingArcher]

I just can't seem to accept the internet strain of feminism because of that moronic #notallmen catchphrase.

Apparently I don't do enough as a man to condemn violence, rape, power trips and inequality...because #notallmen or something.

Never mind my 3 consecutive summers as a teen I spent helping in rural NT and QLD to 1) educate men and 2) provide support/support groups for at risk women.

Real feminism does work on the ground level.

SM feminism produces bullshit videos without context solely for likes, tweets and views.

 

[SterlingArcher]

I just can't seem to accept the internet strain of feminism because of that moronic #notallmen catchphrase.

Apparently I don't do enough as a man to condemn violence, rape, power trips and inequality...because #notallmen or something.

Never mind my 3 consecutive summers as a teen I spent helping in rural NT and QLD to 1) educate men and 2) provide support/support groups for at risk women.

Real feminism does work on the ground level.

SM feminism produces bullshit videos without context solely for likes, tweets and views.

 

[fleabitten]

Real feminism does work on the ground level.

SM feminism produces bullshit videos without context solely for likes, tweets and views.

This is probably the truth of it, but in today's world a lot of our interactions and the way we get our information is online. So unless you're on the ground with the "real feminists", SM feminism is what you're exposed to most. As I said in the DV thread, I know people that identify as feminists who certainly have their hearts in the right place and are doing good things. They also don't confine themselves to just women's rights. They advocate for refugees and gay marriage and numerous other causes. They're just people who want everyone to get a fair go and are willing to fight for them. Sometimes they might buy into some of the myths, but I can talk about that with them and if they see that they've been fed bad information, they'll accept it and move on. If they think I'm wrong, they'll say so and we move on. I'm not a misogynist to them just because I disagree about something.

Interacting with feminists online is almost always like beating your head against a wall. It doesn't matter if they have their facts completely wrong, you're not allowed to question anything. It's "mansplaining" or "you're concentrating on a side issue" or they'll just attack you and avoid discussing it altogether.

 

[telsor]

No matter which side you are on, surely we can all agree that this is pathetic:



-Scientist who landed probe on comet wears shirt with semi-clothed cartoon women
-Extreme feminists go into rage mode
-Scientist not only apologizes. but actually breaks down and cries while grovelling to said feminists.

All over a shirt.....

and those same feminists no doubt insist that a woman shouldn't be judged by what she wears.

 

[telsor]

On the article quoted in the OP...

I've used a similar argument a few times on different topics. Using false/exaggerated stats weakens you entire argument, because it calls everything you say into question.

 

[evo]

Jeepers, had to feel sorry for the comet guy after that heartfelt apology over the silly shirt.

Crazy world.

 

[MrCharisma]

The semi-naked women is the least offensive thing about that shirt.

 

[telsor]

The semi-naked women is the least offensive thing about that shirt.

I used to work somewhere where casual Friday became 'bad shirt day' for one team. Not so much offensive as just visually awful...Hawaiian shirts with clashing colours, etc. It was a sight to behold, and these guys when all out sourcing such garments.

 

[clogged]

Jeepers, had to feel sorry for the comet guy after that heartfelt apology over the silly shirt.

Crazy world.

Hopefully this is peak shrill.

 

[The Coup]

and those same feminists no doubt insist that a woman shouldn't be judged by what she wears.

To be fair to those feminists, those two examples are completely separate arguments and a reasonable person wouldn't try and conflate them.

 

[SpuriousPea]

See the only time I read about feminism is when I'm reading an actual academic talking about gender issues, or I'm reading about people being mad at the alleged "feminism" appearing in mainstream media articles.

I don't get the point of people like Sarkeesian. We already have feminist academics who are way more informed and way more intelligent than Sarkeesian is, but they don't get any exposure. Its similar to how whenever someone religious is being interviewed on mainstream TV its some complete nutcase "preacher" like Danny Nalia instead of say, an official spokesman of the church or an Anglican minister.

Give proper exposure to academics and experts in the field. Its why TED talks are so popular, people are cottoning on that things like feminism, or religion, or economics are not covered accurately or fairly by profit driven media companies.

So ignore it.

Like Luce Irigaray, who considers e=mc2 a sexed equation, or Sandra Harding, who called Newton's Principia Mathematica a "rape manual".

 

[evo]

Like Luce Irigaray, who considers e=mc2 a sexed equation, or Sandra Harding, who called Newton's Principia Mathematica a "rape manual".

Haha. We actually had to read her in one of my classes.

Luce Irigaray is a Lacanian pscyhoanalytic philosopher, so she is already insane by definition. 'Speculum of the other woman'- you can pretty much can tell where that is going to go.

 

[Nikita Blue]

At the risk of getting myself banned again...

An article from Time by Christina Hoff Summers (also known as The Factual Feminist)

Err in the interests of full disclosure Christina Hoff Summers is a right wing idealogue - she is about as feminist as Margaret Thatcher was.

 

[The Coup]

Like Luce Irigaray, who considers e=mc2 a sexed equation, or Sandra Harding, who called Newton's Principia Mathematica a "rape manual".

LOL I have not heard of these but that sounds insane - I'm not doubting you at all - I read Dworkin and she was psychotic (but strangely rational). Any links?

 

[fleabitten]

Err in the interests of full disclosure Christina Hoff Summers is a right wing idealogue - she is about as feminist as Margaret Thatcher was.

This is funny to me. People who don't want to be labeled feminist don't have a choice if feminists want to claim them. But self-identifying feminists who stray from the party line are stripped of the title. So according to feminists, people don't get to decide if they are feminist or not. Feminists decide that for you.

It really doesn't matter anyway. Where are her facts wrong? That's really the only meaningful way to criticize her.

 

[fleabitten]

LOL I have not heard of these but that sounds insane - I'm not doubting you at all - I read Dworkin and she was psychotic (but strangely rational). Any links?

It's on their wikipedia pages. Harding at least said that she regretted her statement.

 

[cartwright]

Err in the interests of full disclosure Christina Hoff Summers is a right wing idealogue - she is about as feminist as Margaret Thatcher was.

yep.

But hey, whats another week on BF without a thread on feminism!

 

[clogged]

Why can't there be right wing feminists?

 

[Nikita Blue]

This is funny to me. People who don't want to be labeled feminist don't have a choice if feminists want to claim them. But self-identifying feminists who stray from the party line are stripped of the title. So according to feminists, people don't get to decide if they are feminist or not. Feminists decide that for you.

It really doesn't matter anyway. Where are her facts wrong? That's really the only meaningful way to criticize her.

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/the-stolen-feminism-hoax/

 

[fleabitten]

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/the-stolen-feminism-hoax/

Firstly, none of the myths from the OP are addressed in that link.

Secondly, http://www.debunker.com/texts/fair2.html

 

[Nikita Blue]

Firstly, none of the myths from the OP are addressed in that link.

Secondly, http://www.debunker.com/texts/fair2.html

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Everyone can manipulate them to suit their argument - my point is just that she is not the disinterested non-ideological commentator she purports to be.

 

[fleabitten]

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Everyone can manipulate them to suit their argument - my point is just that she is not the disinterested non-ideological commentator she purports to be.

So your defense of the 5 myths is that "everyone lies about stuff"?

I never got the impression that she was claiming to be disinterested or non-ideological. I don't really care what her politics are if her facts are sound.

 

[kfc1]

Jeepers, had to feel sorry for the comet guy after that heartfelt apology over the silly shirt.

Crazy world.

I was disappointed to find out he wasn't actually trolling feminists. that would have been more amusing

maybe if Karl Stefanovic had landed a probe on a comet and worn the same suit for the whole year

 

[Floor Pie]

No matter which side you are on, surely we can all agree that this is pathetic:



-Scientist who landed probe on comet wears shirt with semi-clothed cartoon women
-Extreme feminists go into rage mode
-Scientist not only apologizes. but actually breaks down and cries while grovelling to said feminists.

All over a shirt.....

Don't know why they stopped there. They should have attacked the broadcaster for not blurring the images.
Or why they didn't attack the designer and manufacturer for creating that item of clothing!

But seriously, the guy should have worn the same thing during his apology, to rub it in the fact of the extremists!

At the same time... was it a dare? Did he forget, and no one mentioned it?...