Review GBU vs collingwood

[Scorpus]

It's difficult to describe how bad of a decision and strategy this is when the game is in this position



Butts kicks long in red to an area where there are FIVE Collingwood players in better position to get to the fall of the ball

Meanwhile out wide we have two players in the clear and the ability to work into that space (blue). It's a risky move to go corridor side but we played it safe and Collingwood won the ball and delivered it back into the corridor

 

[ABAB]

This!
"Close losses" indicate a losing mentality, if anything; an inability to win.
"Competitive" also means that we lose.

It tells Nicks that he has a core group to win these games now without being heavily reliant on Walker anymore but if he isn't willing to make the "hard" decisions on the obvious players who continue to let him down and improve his chance of winning then he won't have a job end of next year. He made the same mistake last year and then this year again, you honestly think he won't be sack next year if we don't make Finals???? We got close last year so he got a 2 years extension (yes should have waited) but I can't see him surviving if we don't make Finals next year.

 

[CrowBloke]

Nicks bingo going off in the post-game presser with the “you’re never as good or never as bad as you think you are” line being rolled out, dude has no idea. He did look angry today but of course it didn’t translate to anything remotely interesting, he’s such a bland individual and coach both on-field and off-field.

Ch. 7 cut to Nicks just after the siren. He stood up, slammed his hands on the desk and it looked to me like he shouted:" farken bull$hit!! ".
Possibilities:
--- he was angry at the Rankine ran-too-far call, or
--- he was angry they lost by less than a kick, yet again, or
--- it was self-referential (least likely, but true).

 

[FR0GGY]

It's difficult to describe how bad of a decision and strategy this is when the game is in this position

View attachment 1993112

Butts kicks long in red to an area where there are FIVE Collingwood players in better position to get to the fall of the ball

Meanwhile out wide we have two players in the clear and the ability to work into that space (blue). It's a risky move to go corridor side but we played it safe and Collingwood won the ball and delivered it back into the corridor

Would that not seem like a bad decision from butts rather than a bad strategy?
You’d assume those players are where they are supposed to be.

 

[arsene wenger1]

Put it this way, the Collingwood crowd wasn’t calling too far yet!

Even the commentators thought it was a free kick to us inside 50

 

[Scorpus]

Would that not seem like a bad decision from butts rather than a bad strategy?
You’d assume those players are where they are supposed to be.

It's hard to say. We'd been kicking long down the line for 10 minutes so it's probably a mix of both

 

[arsene wenger1]

He was definately not "good"last year. He was playing at a level that still didnt justify the pick we used on him however it was marginally better than his previous terrible seasons. This year he is just doubling down on the fact that he is not AFL standard and the only people who can't or won't see it are the muppets employed at the AFC.

Actually can’t believe he’s now 24 with nearly 100 games played. He’s just not improving

 

[NSolis]

So after we took the lead with 7 minutes left on the clock, here's just some of the errors we made

1. After De Goey's miss and we're kicking out, Jones turns it straight over to Frampton, literally kicking it to his advantage, and Collingwood get a repeat shot on goal (out on the full, luckily) because Murphy comes up to affect a contest which leaves his man wide open on the counter through overlap
2. After that miss we play very very slow football down the line which gets turned over because we don't have contested markers up the field
3. At a stoppage inside Collingwood's 50, Laird lets Nick Daicos get completely in the clear. Daicos kicks it out on the full
4. A kick goes inside 50 and Rankine miraculously wins it at ground level, handballs it to Jones who's in the clear but is too slow to react to Rankine winning the ball and is in poor position. Jones attempts to handball it over the top of three Collingwood players to Laird but it's smothered (obviously) and it's a stoppage.
5. O'Brien wins it out of the ruck (3 minutes left now) and attempts a shot on goal but shanks it, both completely missing the goals and not making the distance. Soligo was behind him calling for it
6. Shortly after this Keays attempts a snap shot on goal he was never going to kick with at least three players free calling for the handball inside 50 in goal scoring positions. This is what leads to an epic fast turnover from Collingwood that lets De Goey kick the sealer. Keane slips over on him
7. We're now down with 2 minutes left. With 1 minute left to go, Butts wins a free kick about half way. Butts kicks it long to the boundary with Collingwood in best position, ignoring Fogarty short. Butts was always too far to get it reasonably inside 50 and Collingwood had stacked that area of the ground. We commit four players to this contest and leave at least three Collingwood players outside in ball receiving positions along with Hill who is probably 30m away from anyone in the corridor
8. Stoppage on the wing with 43 seconds left, O'Brien wins a perfect tap to Jones who completely misjudges it and it falls to his feet so he soccers the ball 2m into a Collingwood player
9. After this, the ball spills clear and Nankervis wins it. O'Brien, who was right there, fails to block a Collingwood player coming from behind him, who is able to tackle Nankervis out of bounds
10. When Rankine was running forward and ultimately called for running too far with 17 seconds left, he had absolutely no support whatsoever with most players too far forward and nothing in an acre of space around the 50

With Jones turning it over and being absolutely terrible, O'Brien shanking it, Laird being ineffective, Keays making a diabolical decision inside 50, Murphy contributing nothing, and Smith having no impact, who stood up?

Very noticeably, it was Dawson, Rankine, Nankervis (special mention to him, he was excellent busting his ass everywhere), then Hinge was decent, Crouch decent but appeared to be benched for the final minutes. Michalanney was constantly providing options on the far wing but we never used him. Soligo played a bit on Nick Daicos who had little to no influence in that period

Also, Nicks' plan to play slow and kick long down the line with a narrow lead, 7 minutes to go, with little to no contested marking power, is idiotic. Especially when down with 2 minutes to go we hugged the boundary and kicked long to packs. No creativity, no switching the play, no attempts to make space. Just players stuffing it up.

So there's plenty of criticisms of how we played in the last 10 mins or so but I think this 'list of mistakes' thing is kind of a dumb way to do it. The big thing I'd point to is that we just gave up on attack and tried to preserve the lead, which is obviously a balancing act but I think we went too conservative by quite a bit. That was on everyone of course and is extremely hard to get right, but fair to say we didn't go particularly close. I'd also say that the rebound focussed style of scoring falls over when the opposition has the lead and just wants to defend, which hurts us a lot in close games when we are behind, but means we are very capable of getting a run on against a team that is trying to score.

Anyway, the problem with listing every play where someone could have done better is that if you're going to take that route you can really isolate errors from anyone and make them sound dreadful. Especially in a high pressure final quarter environment where basically everything anyone does has alternative options that might have been better. You could selectively pick different moments, or even do the opposite by isolating positive moments to paint a different picture - ROB took two good contested marks in the last 10 mins for example and set up a scoring chance off one of them, but I wouldn't say he had a good final quarter.

There's also no sense of proportion here. Some of these things you list are big mistakes (ROB just shanking it after collecting after a forward stoppage for example was horrible... at least hold the ball up and look for another option), others are no big deal at all and totally understandable, like Jones getting a handpass from Rankine surrounded by Collingwood players and turning it into a stoppage, which you describe as him being in 'poor position'. If the players were reversed I'm sure you'd say this was Jones selecting a poor option. I'd much rather what Jones did than say what Walker did in a similar spot, just handballing to nobody and turning it over.

For example, here's a couple of examples of impactful final quarter errors from players who were actually very good:

With 12 mins left in Q4, 4 points the difference, Dawson takes the ball 60 from goal on a turnover with plenty of time. He absolutely shanks it into the pocket near the behind post and Sidebottom collects it for an easy rebound. This was a particularly bad entry following a turnover when we should have at least forced a contest, but is obviously just as bad as say ROBs crappy kick inside 50 or Keays' snap.

With 9 mins left in Q4, same score, Nankervis is free 60 from goal and looks to hit up Keays in the pocket for a scoring opportunity but kicks it out on the full. Keays actually marked this one over the boundary line and would have had a shot if Nank kept it in the field of play.

Since we're calling out Jones for kicking out of defence straight to a Collingwood interceptor, Nankervis also did this the very next play after the Jones one you mention, with about 5 mins remaining from around the same spot. A slightly better kick but still to Collingwood's advantage and resulting in an intercept mark to Cameron. You call Jones out specifically, but when Nank does it it's a team strategy which leads to the problem.

I was also going to talk about the player evaluations but suffice to say I think describing Hinge's quarter as 'decent' while singling out Soligo for praise is weird.

 

[ABAB]

Actually can’t believe he’s now 24 with nearly 100 games played. He’s just not improving

Jones definitely improved last year (kicked a few 50m set shot and even in a Showdown at an important time) then got Lisfranc late in the season and has been shit since.

 

[Go the Guts]

Can ROB stop ******* getting involved in our ball movement. Did we see Collingwood handball to cox or Cameron???

And therein lies a huge factor. Does Melbourne involve Gawn in ball movement? Abso-bloody-lutely. Because he moves like a ruckman should. He is athletic, mobile and can actually kick and handball without looking like he's physically impaired. That's the difference with ROB.

 

[NSolis]

It's difficult to describe how bad of a decision and strategy this is when the game is in this position

View attachment 1993112

Butts kicks long in red to an area where there are FIVE Collingwood players in better position to get to the fall of the ball

Meanwhile out wide we have two players in the clear and the ability to work into that space (blue). It's a risky move to go corridor side but we played it safe and Collingwood won the ball and delivered it back into the corridor

This is indeed extremely bad. I think this is not an intentional strategy though, maybe when we were ahead it was, but when you're behind with 1 min left you have to roll the dice. Not Butts' strong suit as a player and he made a bad call, there's no way he's being told to go long down the line to a contest when behind with 1 minute to play. Just a lack of game awareness.

 

[Go the Guts]

It's difficult to describe how bad of a decision and strategy this is when the game is in this position

View attachment 1993112

Butts kicks long in red to an area where there are FIVE Collingwood players in better position to get to the fall of the ball

Meanwhile out wide we have two players in the clear and the ability to work into that space (blue). It's a risky move to go corridor side but we played it safe and Collingwood won the ball and delivered it back into the corridor

Butts is not an intelligent footballer. And he won't be in our side for much longer unless only for depth, once we have Murray, Keane and Worrall all in as our talls. Butts makes very poor decisions, is slow to react, and rarely looks right around at his options. If he does, it''s slow and too late to have any impact.

 

[Scorpus]

Since we're calling out Jones for kicking out of defence straight to a Collingwood interceptor, Nankervis also did this the very next play after the Jones one you mention, with about 5 mins remaining from around the same spot. A slightly better kick but still to Collingwood's advantage and resulting in an intercept mark to Cameron. You call Jones out specifically, but when Nank does it it's a team strategy which leads to the problem.

That's not true though. Nankervis spots Fogarty boundary side of his opponent with 5m of separation in a potential 2 on 1 and kicks it right there. Yes it was probably going to be a 2 on 2 pack when the ball gets there. Very harsh to describe that as to the advantage of the Collingwood player who outmarks it coming in from the side

In the Jones case, Frampton is playing in front of Walker and as Walker moves back and boundary side, Jones kicks it in front of Frampton corridor side. It was perfectly to him.

I'd much rather what Jones did than say what Walker did in a similar spot, just handballing to nobody and turning it over.

Walker was trying to handball it to Rachele in the clear, which was clearly the best option, and at the moment of the handball Noble was running away which was actually clearing space for that handball. Noble read that play brilliantly and Walker's handball wasn't amazing, but it was a good attacking decision given the position of the game.

I was also going to talk about the player evaluations but suffice to say I think describing Hinge's quarter as 'decent' while singling out Soligo for praise is weird.

I'm not talking about the whole quarter, only the final seven minutes

So there's plenty of criticisms of how we played in the last 10 mins or so but I think this 'list of mistakes' thing is kind of a dumb way to do it. The big thing I'd point to is that we just gave up on attack and tried to preserve the lead, which is obviously a balancing act but I think we went too conservative by quite a bit. That was on everyone of course and is extremely hard to get right, but fair to say we didn't go particularly close. I'd also say that the rebound focussed style of scoring falls over when the opposition has the lead and just wants to defend, which hurts us a lot in close games when we are behind, but means we are very capable of getting a run on against a team that is trying to score.

Nah some players had some seriously poor errors that had nothing to do with just playing conservatively. O'Brien's shank, Keays horrendous snap into the man, Jones missing O'Brien's clean tap... we're talking simple execution errors and usually by experienced players. In fact Keays snap, which was a major factor in costing us the game, was the opposite of conservative play. It was a stupid decision and terrible execution.

And even when we did attempt to play conservatively on purpose we couldn't even kick to contests properly. Jones kicking it to Frampton's advantage, Butts kicking to about 5 Collingwood player's advantage, leaving Collingwood players free around packs to win crumbs...

 

[GreyCrow]

It's difficult to describe how bad of a decision and strategy this is when the game is in this position

View attachment 1993112

Butts kicks long in red to an area where there are FIVE Collingwood players in better position to get to the fall of the ball

Meanwhile out wide we have two players in the clear and the ability to work into that space (blue). It's a risky move to go corridor side but we played it safe and Collingwood won the ball and delivered it back into the corridor

With a minute to go - he would have been told from the sideline - the chip over the top creates the same issues as the long kick

His best option with 8 hours hindsight is the player in the 2nd blue dot from the right. Kick to him he runs 10 then drives long into the danger spot or alternatively he kicks to the 3rd blue dot guy who has a tonne of space to run into

The ideal training video says all our forwards are on the half forward line which brings Collingwood players up leaving less players to flood - once we take that 2nd kick in the middle is the time to run forward towards goals creating many options

 

[Go the Guts]

Never wanted to say it but, Tex is absolutely cooked. Not a patch on his mobility he had last year.
Still has the skills and footy smarts, and still the most sublime kick of the football, but his body is just getting old for AFL footy. Will be his last season for sure.

 

[JP Sauce]

ROB, Smith, Crouch and Laird should never play for the club again. Trade or retire them, stick them in the back of a ute for our next home game. None of them offer any value.

 

[GreyCrow]

Butts is not an intelligent footballer. And he won't be in our side for much longer unless only for depth, once we have Murray, Keane and Worrall all in as our talls. Butts makes very poor decisions, is slow to react, and rarely looks right around at his options. If he does, it''s slow and too late to have any impact.

I wouldnt be that harsh but he did make a poor decision by going safe

If you look at the above picture Butts is clearly facing those open players

That he chose to go ''safe'' was more him not trusting himself or even having too much info

I am sure ( I would hope) that part of his review will be asking what his thought process was and if a coach can ease whatever issue he had

 

[Go the Guts]

I wouldnt be that harsh but he did make a poor decision by going safe

If you look at the above picture Butts is clearly facing those open players

That he chose to go ''safe'' was more him not trusting himself or even having too much info

I am sure ( I would hope) that part of his review will be asking what his thought process was and if a coach can ease whatever issue he had

My comment was based on watching him closely at AO for a few seasons now, not that picture. He's not a smart decision maker, is slow, and overall, not part of our next premiership assault....whenever the hell that will be. But I just don't rate him.

 

[Sanders]

I don't dislike Bickley.

But reckon even he woukd have Roo and Tex ahead of himself.

Dawson and him on par, with McDermott.


Bottom tier Sloane and Goodwin.


Honestly, all good choices as skipper. No duds there.


McGuinness the one dud, I guess?

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Making the schoolboy error of confusing the captain with the player

 

[Sanders]

Can't win with some of you blokes, you scream out for Rankine (93% T.O.G. 30 disposals 8 clearances 4 score involvements), Soligo (76% T.O.G. 24 disposals 3 clearances 4 score involvements) Dawson (88% T.O.G 29 disposals 4 clearances 5 score involvements) to get more on ball minutes and when they do you still find fault.

Crouch (65% T.O.G 34 disposals 5 clearances 7 score involvements). Laird (68% T.O.G. 22 disposals 3 clearances 4 score involvements).

Someone has to make way for Rankine getting so much on ball time and it's pretty obvious Crouch and Laird are making way.

That makes no sense at all.

For one you’re confusing time on the ball with time on the ground, a pretty basic error

And in all that, you ignore the basic fact that Laird and crouch have low time on the ground because they provide little run and absolutely do not provide any defensive running. Their short comings can’t be hidden off the ball - so unlike everyone else, they have to get their rest on the bench

 

[Sanders]

Ok, sitting next to the AFC Chairman on the flight back in Business.

He is currently reviewing the Memorandum for the developer of Thebarton. Three on the panel, one is Commercial and General.

It’s a lot of work for an unpaid volunteer

 

[Sanders]

Same goes for Murphy - what on earth is he doing in that group when blind Freddy can see he’s not in the best 20 players at the club and is lucky to ever be selected?

Maybe Blind Freddy isn’t someone to listen to?

Murphy was good today.

 

[huludicidal]

Maybe Blind Freddy isn’t someone to listen to?

Murphy was good today.

He was definitely good today, which I noted in the post where I was actually talking about today’s game. Two other players who aren’t in the best 20 at the club, Hamill and Butts, were good today too. The reference to Murphy’s highly questionable position in the leadership group is in no way linked to his one-off performance today.

Murphy has recently been running around the SANFL, was pretty lucky to be recalled for today’s game, and the chances of him repeating today’s performance any time soon are slim at best, which makes his position in the leadership group tenuous at best is all I’m saying.

Having said that, I’m slightly less opposed to Murphy being a “leader” moving forward than Brodie Smith, who continues to make a complete fool of himself and the club weekly.

 

[Brett Cummings]

Nank showed again today that Nicks is a moron for making him sub last week

Honestly how does roo not see all of these deplorable decisions. The hack is untenable.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It's difficult to describe how bad of a decision and strategy this is when the game is in this position

View attachment 1993112

Butts kicks long in red to an area where there are FIVE Collingwood players in better position to get to the fall of the ball

Meanwhile out wide we have two players in the clear and the ability to work into that space (blue). It's a risky move to go corridor side but we played it safe and Collingwood won the ball and delivered it back into the corridor

Didn't trust himself because he knows he's a terrible kick