Autopsy Geelong defeated by Port by 16 points.

[someday-somehow]

I made sure I didn't post last night so I could take the emotion out of it. I and others have been banging on about this for a few years now and I will say it again - this needs to change.

Nick Reivoldt summed it up perfectly after the game last night when he said he thought everything had to go right for geelong to win a final against a good opponent whereas teams that move the ball quickly and at all costs (i.e. bash, crash type of football) can still win even if everything doesn't go their way. And since you need to win three finals to win a flag that means the odds are stacked too much against that happenning.

We simply do not have the cattle to win a flag, we need good young talent that can form a cohesive unit over many years not just keep adding top ups from other clubs, did I hear correctly that we fielded the oldest, most experienced side in vfl/afl history last night? and still couldn't win in a shortened version of the game - what does that tell you?

Joel Selwood came to our club for pick 6, we got lucky with Tom Hawkins being a FS for a second round pick (rules have now changed), we've had to pay a hefty price for the only decent pickups - Danger, Henderson, Stanley (debatable) and Ottens. Most of the others were let go for a reason.

I know many will say players like Rohan, Steven and Dalhouse didn't cost us much so were worth a punt, to them I would say that they take up a list spot and are played in the seniors regularly in front of drafted youth who seem to have to play out of their skins in their early games to earn their spot. Then we seem to trade or delist many of these young blokes when they don't make it, either we need higher draft picks, better player development or both.

The Geelong cats as a football club need some serious soul-searching and self-reflection, they may think its an acceptable KPI to make finals every year but we all know we are all here to see our team win flags, if you're not giving yourself the best chance for that to happen (and we most certainly are not!) then you accept mediocrity. If we have to dip out of finals contention for 2-3 years to build a list that can go all the way then that's exactly what we should do and if the football club think they need to make finals every year to keep memberships up then I don't think they give their supporters enough credit.

I'll put my hand up and say that I am part of that small "rump" of suporters that wants to see change and that small "rump" grows year by year, it's the hubris of some in the club that don't see it.

 

[catters_28]

I've said it for a couple of years now but honestly if you judge a player's finals record by comparing their H&A output to their finals output he might be the worst finals player of all time. Even his finals that have looked good on the stats sheet have consisted of winning the ball but using it poorly and being completely exposed defensively. Last night was no different.

Danger and Martin are similar and comparable quality players. But if their finals output was switched it's probably us with the recent premierships and the Tigers questioning why they're not quite good enough. Martin steps up big time in finals while Danger loses all composure and it has cost us time and time again.

Say it louder for the people in the back.

 

[Strange Cat]

And yet we will have record membership next year and the club will continue to not listen to the supporters and think everything is peachy perfect

rinse and repeat year in year out

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Can someone start a group called...
The PISS & MOANERS.
Coz there are plenty on here when we lose... and even a few when we win.
FFS.
We lost. Beaten by a better side on the night. By 16pts... 16pts in Adelaide.
Blame, Blame, Blame... He did, she did, they did...
Shouldda. Couldda. Wouldda. DIDN'T.
We LOST, get over yourselves.
Fair dinkum some blokes on here sound like 9 year old kids.
It's footy. A game.
One week you're SHYTE & the next you're The KINGS of The WORLD.
Move on. There is a game next week.
But going by some comments here they wont be watching or have given up already.
Cheers boys!

 

[STPer18]

There should be serious consideration about Henry and Kolo's spot in the side, not just for next week, but into the future now as well. Henry has played 60-odd games, Kolo over 100 now, and both have a worrying trend of becoming stunned mullets when the stakes are raised. Plus the fact they offer literally zero offensively. I know they're two of 'Scarlo's Boys', but there'd be a lot of blokes in the squad wishing they got the charmed run at selection week-in week-out these two get.

 

[Strange Cat]

Can someone start a group called...
The PISS & MOANERS.
Coz there are plenty on here when we lose... and even a few when we win.
FFS.
We lost. Beaten by a better side on the night. By 16pts... 16pts in Adelaide.
Blame, Blame, Blame... He did, she did, they did...
Shouldda. Couldda. Wouldda. DIDN'T.
We LOST, get over yourselves.
Fair dinkum some blokes on here sound like 9 year old kids.
It's footy. A game.
One week you're sh*te & the next you're The KINGS of The WORLD.
Move on. There is a game next week.
But going by some comments here they wont be watching or have given up already.
Cheers boys!

So how many more years of the same perfomance do you need before you recognise there is a problem?

serious question our final perfomance is like clockwork, we have lost by 18 points , then 31 points in most of the finals over the last few years.

it is a reoccurring theme

 

[romeohwho]

I've said it for a couple of years now but honestly if you judge a player's finals record by comparing their H&A output to their finals output he might be the worst finals player of all time. Even his finals that have looked good on the stats sheet have consisted of winning the ball but using it poorly and being completely exposed defensively. Last night was no different.

Danger and Martin are similar and comparable quality players. But if their finals output was switched it's probably us with the recent premierships and the Tigers questioning why they're not quite good enough. Martin steps up big time in finals while Danger loses all composure and it has cost us time and time again.

He tries his guts out, he messes up sometimes. Sheesh if he’s our biggest final problem...

 

[feelinfeline]

We are the new Collingwood of the finals

Unlike us, Collingwood made grand finals.

 

[goyoucatters]

He tries his guts out, he messes up sometimes. Sheesh if he’s our biggest final problem...

He is far from our biggest finals problem. Admittedly, Dusty does go to another level in finals that Danger has struggled to match.

But if you're having to blame one of your only possible match-winners for the deficiencies of all his teammates when the heat goes on, you really have become a little myopic in your analysis.

In the end, how far below his 'standard performance' was Danger last night, compared to a whole bunch of his teammates? That's all you need to know about how much of a finals problem he is for us.

 

[Strange Cat]

Unlike us, Collingwood made grand finals.

Didn’t say we were the successful version

but I’d rather not make the GF, rather than make the GF and get beaten tbh

 

[afl genius]

I'll put my hand up and say that I am part of that small "rump" of suporters that wants to see change and that small "rump" grows year by year, it's the hubris of some in the club that don't see it.

I'd say you are in the vast majority now. Every Geelong supporter I know had a gutful multiple seasons ago, doubt it's been eased based on recent years. Not sure how much influence supporters really have though

 

[Down at K Park]

And yet we will have record membership next year and the club will continue to not listen to the supporters and think everything is peachy perfect

rinse and repeat year in year out

If our membership sinks they will just blame it on covid.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

There should be serious consideration about Henry and Kolo's spot in the side, not just for next week, but into the future now as well. Henry has played 60-odd games, Kolo over 100 now, and both have a worrying trend of becoming stunned mullets when the stakes are raised. Plus the fact they offer literally zero offensively. I know they're two of 'Scarlo's Boys', but there'd be a lot of blokes in the squad wishing they got the charmed run at selection week-in week-out these two get.

Our defence can defend the high ball better than any other team - that relies a lot on pressure up the ground so when our mids exert that pressure our tall defence excels.
However we are very poor in defence at defending the ground ball with only OConnor and Bews capable of doing it consistently.
I think it's a fair argument to question having them both there along with Taylor and Henderson - same goes for next season if we replace Taylor with Blitz.
Really hope Clark can step up and maybe we look at Saad or using a low draft pick to pick up a skilful , quick medium size defender.

 

[Footy Smarts]

He tries his guts out, he messes up sometimes. Sheesh if he’s our biggest final problem...

Trying our guys out and messing up is the story of our finals failures and our highest paid player has set the tone of that failure time and time again. If you think effort is what's missing you're deluded. Fumbles, turnovers and disorganisation comes from lack of composure not lack of effort. Sadly again last night 3 of our best players (Hawkins, Stewart and Danger) were our 3 biggest liabilities in that regard.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Usually the Im the one going off my head.
But I think this is one of the better first round finals performances we've had in years.
Game wasn't over in 10 minutes and no stupid selections.
This is the best I can hope for now. Funny how expectations drop.

 

[romeohwho]

He is far from our biggest finals problem. Admittedly, Dusty does go to another level in finals that Danger has struggled to match.

But if you're having to blame one of your only possible match-winners for the deficiencies of all his teammates when the heat goes on, you really have become a little myopic in your analysis.

In the end, how far below his 'standard performance' was Danger last night, compared to a whole bunch of his teammates? That's all you need to know about how much of a finals problem he is for us.

Exactly, and why the constant comparison to dusty anyway- like who cares? Are we better for having him in the team- yes.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Port did only what they had to do in that third quarter and held in the fourth, as much as it looked as though we wasted an opportunity, that third quarter showed the result to be about right.

Last nights post match discussion on K Rock was one of the best analysis I have heard of our team currently:
* We dont have the talent or depth we had 10 years ago.
* Chris Scott is a good coach, not a great coach.
* Not saying Scott is done, but do the older players need a fresh voice?
* We don't worry Richmond in Finals.
* Lake of Depth means Pressure will always expose us.
* In finals we need Dangerfield, Hawkins and Selwood in our best 5 players to be a chance, until this changes we are going to continue this.

I actually asked someone this morning, if Chris Scott was coaching Richmond, does Marlon Pickett get a game in the GF? I would say no, and that's the small difference between success and failure, that ability to take a risk and not go into safe mode come Finals.

Round 13 2016: Defeated Premiers Western Bulldogs by 57 points.
Round 11 2017: Defeated Grand Finalist Adelaide in Adelaide by 22 Points.
Round 12 2019: Defeated Premiers Richmond by 67 points.
Round 12 2020: Defeated Minor premier Port Adelaide by 60 points.

This has happened too many times now for it to be a coincidence, but how do you change it?

I would argue the opposite on that last point about taking risks, and that Scott has taken massive risks in finals for example Blicavs in the ruck.

I won't argue we don't have the depth we had 10 years ago. I would argue no current club does either.

That Scott is a good coach not a great coach is also probably true but not really relevant. What great coach would we have instead of him? There's more clubs than qualified coaches to begin with and there's arguably 2 great coaches i think in hardwick and Clarkson.

I'd argue Scott is trying to get the best out of a very old list and has modified playing styles to suit the advantages that it gives or doesn't give. When we move to a younger list structure it may remain to be seen whether he can modify it again so we'll have to see.

For me whether or not the coach is the right one for the club is down to one question: are the players getting in line behind him or not? If the players are putting their best efforts into the game plan set out by the coach then it doesn't matter if they can't execute it or if it's the wrong game plan, you have to keep him.

Sacking a coach that the players have bought into is what the blues did to Ratten.

Everything you've said can be true and replacing Chris Scott is still the wrong decision.

 

[kicksome]

Gary Rohan vs neon Leon in a final, who would win?

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

 

[romeohwho]

Trying our guys out and messing up is the story of our finals failures and our highest paid player has set the tone of that failure time and time again. If you think effort is what's missing you're deluded. Fumbles, turnovers and disorganisation comes from lack of composure not lack of effort. Sadly again last night 3 of our best players (Hawkins, Stewart and Danger) were our 3 biggest liabilities in that regard.

Just seems mean spirited to me. Do you think he/they deliberately makes mistakes and you think he wants to be below his best? Everything I see of him suggests he works very hard on the training track, and he certainly works hard on the field. In anycase, he’s not nearly as bad as your description. Nor are the other two.

 

[SSwans2011]

I come in peace, so apologies if this seems like I'm shitting on him, but was that a standard Rohan performance in a big game for you, or has he stood up a bit more in the past?

When he was at the Swans, it never seemed to matter what form he was in, he'd shit the bed and be unsighted in big games. To the point where if he was still playing for us and we were playing finals, I'd be tempted to drop him. I love the guy, but I struggle to remember anyone else more prone to providing next to nothing in big games. He did have a career best game in a PF off half-back for us, but we also belted North right from the bounce that night.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

So how many more years of the same perfomance do you need before you recognise there is a problem?

serious question our final perfomance is like clockwork, we have lost by 18 points , then 31 points in most of the finals over the last few years.

it is a reoccurring theme

Problem??? Getting beaten by a better teams?? Happens all the time. Even to other teams... true story.
That's football.
Beaten by a better side on their own deck. PORT
Beaten by better teams in previous years. Take your pick.
Our best team i've ever seen is the 2008 team that ran around like champs until their final game. It happens.
That DYNASTY that people still live in the shadow of has left us and we have never come close to it since.
We are a better than average side and have been for a few years.
We win more than we lose but not great enough to win the whole enchilada.
That is it in a nutshell.

 

[OddYears]

Besides Selwood we just don’t have any competitive beats. Any players that relish the big occasions and make the most of them. Guys that hate losing more than they like winning. Unfortunately they’re soft mentally. There were many times last night you could see the fear, like oh shit the ball is coming my way, what am I gonna do. It does really make you appreciate even more the mental toughness of the Chapman, Johnson, Bartel, rooke, et al. generation that lived for these moments and demanded excellence. I remember Bartel said in 2010 he wouldn’t be watching the grand final because the cats weren’t in it. He wanted to use that to drive himself to be better. It’s that winners mentality this bunch don’t have.

 

[jezza1435]

I made sure I didn't post last night so I could take the emotion out of it.

How very Chris Scott of you....

 

[STPer18]

I come in peace, so apologies if this seems like I'm shitting on him, but was that a standard Rohan performance in a big game for you, or has he stood up a bit more in the past?

When he was at the Swans, it never seemed to matter what form he was in, he'd sh*t the bed and be unsighted in big games. To the point where if he was still playing for us and we were playing finals, I'd be tempted to drop him. I love the guy, but I struggle to remember anyone else more prone to providing next to nothing in big games. He did have a career best game in a PF off half-back for us, but we also belted North right from the bounce that night.

That's pretty much the norm. The worrying part for us is he is a key component of the way we structure up forward, which is actually an incredible recipe for disaster considering how poor we've been in finals before he was recruited.