Autopsy Geelong defeated by Port by 16 points.

[AM]

You can analyse everything to within an inch of its life but in the end the game plan doesn't work in finals and the team selection isn't right. Which is all the coach

Well if you are simplistic that should satisfy you.

Unlike many, I don't look through rose colored glasses at our squad. In my view not only do the 3 teams that finished above us have more talented squads but so do 2 teams below us. A well-credentialed coach who has a terrific record at a lower level and who spent time as an assistant at AFL in conversation with me today went further today suggesting our list doesn't have the talent or depth of any of the other top 8 sides.

I'm sure CS would love Wojo breaking the lines from the back half. Michael Turner's pace on the wing. Gaz at his mercurial best with his pace and weaving. SJ running riot in the front half et al. But he doesn't.

Only one of our back 6 would make it into the Tigers back 6. It's been the rolling back of the wings and the high press that has been a major contributor to our reasonable record there.

3, maybe 4, of those in the 25 named yesterday would struggle to be picked up by any other club - the Crows included. Such is our depth.

We've been carried over the line or come back after the poor starts by the cream. No better example than Danger in the last game against the Swans. Without his effort on that day, we'd have finished outside the top 4.

Despite our deficiencies and having so many players as spectators with a little luck and some straight kicking we could have pinched a game against a more talented side, playing on their dunghill, in front of a hugely partisan crowd.

Coaching isn't an exact science. Your job is to make the best of what you're given. There isn't a worthwhile coach who won't tell you it's principally about the cattle at your disposal.

All that said, there are things that I question. Why Narkle, who is good in heavy traffic, has clean hands, and makes good decisions hasn't got more game time. The same applies to Jordan Clark when we are crying out for leg speed and who was performing well until the shoulder injury. I don't see in Zac Guthrie what the match committee does etc.

I also know that those on the inside have much more info than me or you, know better how to analyse it, and are way more qualified to make calls than us.

End of rant.

btw. Much more relaxed about watching tonight's game as I don't give a stuff about the result.

 

[feelinfeline]

Well if you are simplistic that should satisfy you.

Unlike many, I don't look through rose colored glasses at our squad. In my view not only do the 3 teams that finished above us have more talented squads but so do 2 teams below us. A well-credentialed coach who has a terrific record at a lower level and who spent time as an assistant at AFL in conversation with me today went further today suggesting our list doesn't have the talent or depth of any of the other top 8 sides.

I'm sure CS would love Wojo breaking the lines from the back half. Michael Turner's pace on the wing. Gaz at his mercurial best with his pace and weaving. SJ running riot in the front half et al. But he doesn't.

Only one of our back 6 would make it into the Tigers back 6. It's been the rolling back of the wings and the high press that has been a major contributor to our reasonable record there.

3, maybe 4, of those in the 25 named yesterday would struggle to be picked up by any other club - the Crows included. Such is our depth.

We've been carried over the line or come back after the poor starts by the cream. No better example than Danger in the last game against the Swans. Without his effort on that day, we'd have finished outside the top 4.

Despite our deficiencies and having so many players as spectators with a little luck and some straight kicking we could have pinched a game against a more talented side, playing on their dunghill, in front of a hugely partisan crowd.

Coaching isn't an exact science. Your job is to make the best of what you're given. There isn't a worthwhile coach who won't tell you it's principally about the cattle at your disposal.

All that said, there are things that I question. Why Narkle, who is good in heavy traffic, has clean hands, and makes good decisions hasn't got more game time. The same applies to Jordan Clark when we are crying out for leg speed and who was performing well until the shoulder injury. I don't see in Zac Guthrie what the match committee does etc.

I also know that those on the inside have much more info than me or you, know better how to analyse it, and are way more qualified to make calls than us.

End of rant.

btw. Much more relaxed about watching tonight's game as I don't give a stuff about the result.

There’s a fair bit of truth to this, but if it is true I think Scott and the club are somewhat delusional. They stated that we weren’t far off it last season and with a few tweaks we could go close this season. Why else would they be happy for Harry and Gaz (who, from their comments, believed the same) to play on?

 

[jezza1435]

what about last years QF?

Yes I agree, we have had ones we were favoured in

4/16

Yes agreed, how many times did we start favourite? Not 16 times I can assure you.... are Brisbane chokers if they lose 3 on the trot? They have been underdog atleast 2/3

 

[Footy Smarts]

Yes I agree, we have had ones we were favoured in

Yes agreed, how many times did we start favourite? Not 16 times I can assure you.... are Brisbane chokers if they lose 3 on the trot? They have been underdog atleast 2/3

Whether we were favorites or not is irrelevant. We had the game there for the taking and choked in front of goal in the first half and exiting defence in the second. It was players not being able to execute simple skills on the big stage.

 

[And_ROOS]

Well if you are simplistic that should satisfy you.

Unlike many, I don't look through rose colored glasses at our squad. In my view not only do the 3 teams that finished above us have more talented squads but so do 2 teams below us. A well-credentialed coach who has a terrific record at a lower level and who spent time as an assistant at AFL in conversation with me today went further today suggesting our list doesn't have the talent or depth of any of the other top 8 sides.

I wouldn't call the Richmond list overly talented from top to bottom. Their elite players are elite, their bottom 6 are very suspect. They are certainly not much more talented than us by any stretch. What they have is a coach who understands how to get the best out of what he has and can exploit that while minimising the weaknesses. We had Henry, with no awareness, caught in the middle of the field with 2 players free either side and he did nothing and get tackled, that directly led to a goal. You wouldn't see an inexperienced player like Balta do that for them. He knows his role and plays to it.

I'm sure CS would love Wojo breaking the lines from the back half. Michael Turner's pace on the wing. Gaz at his mercurial best with his pace and weaving. SJ running riot in the front half et al. But he doesn't.

Funny how the run off the HBF wasn't an issue earlier in the season until the coach changed the personnel and changed tactics 6 weeks ago to a slower build up play...

Only one of our back 6 would make it into the Tigers back 6. It's been the rolling back of the wings and the high press that has been a major contributor to our reasonable record there.

Stewart and Blicavs would be instant admissions in my opinion. And Henderson and Bews are maybes.

Coaching isn't an exact science. Your job is to make the best of what you're given. There isn't a worthwhile coach who won't tell you it's principally about the cattle at your disposal.

And yet we have a coach determined to shoehorn every defender we have into the team. And once again it failed. No one has the cattle to make Scotts ultra conservative and precise gameplan. Its why I was happy earlier in the season we were a long kicking, play on at all times midfield and half back line.

Long, quick direct ball movement. It won flags in the 90s, 2000s, and for the last 4 years...

All that said, there are things that I question. Why Narkle, who is good in heavy traffic, has clean hands, and makes good decisions hasn't got more game time. The same applies to Jordan Clark when we are crying out for leg speed and who was performing well until the shoulder injury. I don't see in Zac Guthrie what the match committee does etc.

Scott clearly either has his favourites, or doesn't trust the kids. But we have looked slow for weeks. Absolutely staggering we didn't take Clark, Narkle and Close into this match. Instead we go with Atkins (woeful) and a top heavy defense. And who did the damage? A small, quick player.

Football is about balance. The last 4 weeks we haven't had it.

 

[steady2]

Just appeared, 40 pages OMG. Why is it that there is always more interest in our losses than our wins, and the greater the win the fewer posts? I started to peruse, Scott this, Scott that...same old, same old. I don't know if Scott is good enough to coach our team to another premiership, but watching that game, we were too slow and lacked strength, they broke tackles or always got a handpass away. Losing by 16 points when Hawkins should have kicked at least 3 and perhaps another 2 from other shots at goal should have been enough for a win...although from what I observed they looked a 6 goal better team than us.

At our best we are almost good enough, we did not play at our best. Where was Rohan? Ablett did little...is this Scott's fault? I'm torn between two views, one; we are simply not good enough, our players do not have the collective ability, skills, speed and strength to win a premiership, or, we are good enough but the players do not have the mental toughness to win a premiership. In the first quarter Hawkins missed two difficult shots, no big deal, or at least it should not have been. He then missed everything after...why? Was that Scott's fault? Perhaps it is, or perhaps it isn't. At any rate, I don't think we can win a premiership this year, but it is possible, so I'll be barracking hard. If we don't get there, GO Port!

 

[foxdog50]

Is anyone feeling any better? Its been close to 20 hours and I still feel angry and annoyed

 

[Jeff76]

Finally watched the game today as I’m holidaying with bugger all reception. Haven’t got much to say apart from
1. Hawkins is crap in finals, and that’s when he’s actually not rubbed out.
2. Coach isn’t right in the head, Danger is the best mid in the comp so why play him forward.
3. Miers should be in the AFLW competition, he’s got no balls what so ever.
4. Did anyone even think we’d win this game with the form we’ve shown the last month?
5. Worst game plan in footy history
6. Seeya next year

 

[Finknottle]

I wouldn't call the Richmond list overly talented. Certainly not more than ours by any stretch. What they have is a coach who understands how to get the best out of what he has and can exploit that while minimising the weaknesses.


Funny how the run off the HBF wasn't an issue earlier in the season until the coach changed the personnel and changed tactics 6 weeks ago to a slower build up play...


Stewart and Blicavs would be instant admissions in my opinion. And Henderson and Bews are maybes.


And yet we have a coach determined to shoehorn every defender we have into the team. And once again it failed. No one has the cattle to make Scotts ultra conservative and precise gameplan. Its why I was happy earlier in the season we were a long kicking, play on at all times midfield and half back line.

Long, quick direct ball movement. It won flags in the 90s, 2000s, and for the last 4 years...


Scott clearly either has his favourites, or doesn't trust the kids. But we have looked slow for weeks. Absolutely staggering we didn't take Clark, Narkle and Close into this match. Instead we go with Atkins (woeful) and a top heavy defense. And who did the damage? A small, quick player.

Football is about balance. The last 4 weeks we haven't had it.

You mentioned Narkle. He has something special, you just have to watch the way he moves in confined spaces. But Geelong seems to favour one dimensional role players over Narkle. With guys like Narkle and Clarke you can see they want to do more than just play a role. Stevie Johnson was a classic for doing creative and sometimes crazy stuff to influence the game. It could backfire sometimes but when it came off it lifted the whole team and his unpredictability made him a great finals player. Other teams were always scared of him. Dustin Martin does that for Richmond and he is an incredible finals player. I agree with others here who have suggested the coaches unleash the shackles and see what this team can really do. But that would mean ditching Chris Scott's zone that leaks like a sieve in finals. Maybe the players could be unpredictable for a change.

 

[winty]

Just mentioned on Seven the skipper needs surgery on his dislocated finger.

 

[cats_09]

Selwood to have surgery on his dislocated finger put it back into place & stabilise the joint

Sounds like they couldn't get it back in last night and he tried to play on in the last quarter with the finger still dislocated, but obviously got to the point when he couldn't play through it

Believed he'll be ok for our next final

 

[MattyJayJ]

The frustrating part is that outside of the 3rd quarter we were in it up to our necks, and really we had the best of them in the first half but just failed to convert our chances. After rewatching the entire 3rd qtr knowing the result and removing my emotion from it, I’d have to say that like most things Geelong weren’t as bad as I thought and Port weren’t as good as I thought.

At the time I thought we were destroyed in contested possession, and we were, and I thought they were too fast and outworked us on the spread, and they did, but that’s not really how Port came to kick their 3 goals. Their first goal came from that Jack Henry HTB in the middle of the ground which completely opened us up. He had the ball for an eternity and had he held the ball for that long in a regular game it would’ve been costly, let alone in a high-pressure final in which players have way less time. Simply a brain fart or lack of awareness on his behalf.

Their 2nd goal came after Guthrie had the ball at half back and attempted a kick to a Geelong player in the middle, but he shanked it and it went straight to Port who sent it back inside 50 and kicked a goal while our defence was out of position.

Their 3rd goal was also a result of a kick into the middle to Selwood that he would’ve marked 10 out of 10 times, but he slipped over at the last second and was immediately surrounded by three Port players. Naturally they got the ball forward and registered yet another quick goal.

Yes we looked slow, yes we seemed to be outworked, but every single goal they kicked for the quarter came from a Geelong error. And it wasn’t errors that were a result of Port’s intense pressure, it was a shank, a slip, and Jack Henry having zero awareness. To top it off, every time we kicked the ball inside 50 it seemed to be a long bomb directed at a small (Atkins, Parfitt) and multiple Port players. Even Jack Henry found himself as the deepest forward for one of our inside 50s which is staggering, although I understand how it can happen.

No doubt we shat the bed, and Port had a lot to do with that, but had we executed basic skills and converted some of our missed opportunities, we could have easily won this game. For what it’s worth, I don’t think either of these teams would get within 4 goals of Richmond based on last nights performance, but I’d much rather be straight into the prelim bolstered by a gutsy win and have a shot at it instead of having to go through West Coast or Collingwood in a cut-throat semi.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Finals pressure the cats and coaches start boiling.. It's a sign of mental weakness. Every person who watched the game could see who wanted it more, Port Adelaids pressure and desire stood out. We folded into a deck of cards and turned the ball over at the smallest hint of pressure.

 

[cats_09]

‍♀

No shit

 

[Catman]

Richmond have a mindfulness coach. Puts the players on their baseline mentally. They seem to play well when it matters and not get over awed like we do.

This should be the biggest investment the club makes in the offseason

Simon Lloyd is a qualified Sports Psychologist. Wonder if we've ever put him to work as one?

 

[rocker_oz33]

Some of guys I work with.
Thier betting AP said Selwood was out with a hammy.

FFS get it right flogs ...it's not hard.

 

[lionbear]

I would argue the opposite on that last point about taking risks, and that Scott has taken massive risks in finals for example Blicavs in the ruck.

I won't argue we don't have the depth we had 10 years ago. I would argue no current club does either.

That Scott is a good coach not a great coach is also probably true but not really relevant. What great coach would we have instead of him? There's more clubs than qualified coaches to begin with and there's arguably 2 great coaches i think in hardwick and Clarkson.

I'd argue Scott is trying to get the best out of a very old list and has modified playing styles to suit the advantages that it gives or doesn't give. When we move to a younger list structure it may remain to be seen whether he can modify it again so we'll have to see.

For me whether or not the coach is the right one for the club is down to one question: are the players getting in line behind him or not? If the players are putting their best efforts into the game plan set out by the coach then it doesn't matter if they can't execute it or if it's the wrong game plan, you have to keep him.

Sacking a coach that the players have bought into is what the blues did to Ratten.

Everything you've said can be true and replacing Chris Scott is still the wrong decision.

For the record I am not sold on replacing Scott, to be honest I am not sure what the best move here is, was just putting together a list of info that was discussed by K Rock and thoughts of myself.

I think the reality after last night we have to face is there is enough results now to say we out perform in home and away and under perform come finals. How do we fix that? I honeslt y dont know.

I think Scott is a good coach, but how many years years to you end up with the same result before you realise things have to change:

Is it time to go to the draft.
Is it time to bring in more 20 to 25 year old players currently on our list.
Do we need new Senior assitants.
Do we need a new coach.
Do we need to move on older players.
Do we need more free agents.

I am not sure which one or two of these we apply, but we need to do something.

Scott is contracted to 2022 and has more than erned the right to coach until then, but that doesn't change the fact something needs to change to work towards to fixing whatever goes wrong come finals.

I am onboard with Scott and want him coaching, but the lazy comment in last night wasn't well placed, but I think he was highly emotional about the result which shows he cares.

 

[frggr]

**** me dead. Tomahawk charged with striking. $1500 fine, thankfully.

Striking Tom Rockliff at some point in the game

 

[frggr]

Match Review: More trouble for Tomahawk in Cats' loss

Geelong forward Tom Hawkins has been charged with striking after Thursday night's qualifying final

www.afl.com.au

 

[Strange Cat]

The more things change and all that

 

[cats_09]

fu** me dead. Tomahawk charged with striking. $1500 fine, thankfully.

Striking Tom Rockliff at some point in the game

On Friday, Hawkins was listed as the only player on the AFL match review officer’s charge sheet.

He faces a $1500 fine for striking Port midfielder Tom Rockliff in the first quarter.

It is Hawkins’ second striking offence of the season.

---

I was thinking the second quarter - remember when we won a free kick on the wing, the crowd got pissed off, there was a lot of umpire whistles and then a free kick to Port for something that no one saw, and ultimately a free kick to Ebert in the forward pocket...

If it came from that passage I could maybe understand as the umpires seemed to lose control for a few minutes & could maybe make sense of the off the ball free

But can't remember anything from the first quarter

 

[Gavin Excell]

Is anyone feeling any better? Its been close to 20 hours and I still feel angry and annoyed

My white fire fury replaced with a more sustainable simmering anger

 

[Chinacats]

Simon Lloyd is a qualified Sports Psychologist. Wonder if we've ever put him to work as one?

Really? Good question.

 

[gaz love x]

What about Butters's intentional, low-impact headbutt on O'Connor? Nothing? Oh ok

 

[rocker_oz33]

I didn't watch much last night was working.

Stanley kicks a goal in the last Q.
I think we were 2 goals down.
Centre square crew of Stanley Duncan Dollhouse...Adkins....WTF.....
That was the next crew after port kicked the next 2.

FFS pull rank Selwood, Danger Guthrie...

Why are Atkins and dolly in there any ways...
Dumbdumbdumb ....