Geelong - Too old, too slow?

[STPer18]

Yeah you got me there Geelong players this year went so well they will have the same amount of time off over summer as Hawthorn players.

It's a fair point to bring up constantly though when Hawthorn supporters display such unfounded arrogance. The cold hard facts are that Hawthorn are sitting 16th on the ladder ahead of only two of the worst assembled teams in recent history. It's great to have confidence in your club but when you take jibes at other club's and their players it probably pays to keep in mind where yours sits in the grand scheme of things, ie at the arse-end, and has been for years now.

 

[The 747]

Wait, Geelong fans actually believe Tanner Bruhn will become the next Gary Ablett Jnr?

You seem to be very concerned with Geelong in your brief time here on BF.

Whose alt might you be?

 

[STPer18]

You'd be hard pressed to find something more pathetic than posting from a sock puppet account on an anonymous online football forum.

 

[MutinyOnTheBounty]

You used some strange players to compare.

More like

SDK = Scarlett
Bruhn = Ablett
Clark = Bartel

Ridiculous post.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Ridiculous post.

Another one who missed the point.

Is it school holidays?

 

[MutinyOnTheBounty]

Another one who missed the point.

Is it school holidays?

Mate, you made a bafflingly stupid post. Digging your heels on the whole "y-you missed the point!" isn't going to convince anyone.

Just swallow your pride, accept you made a mistake and move on.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Mate, you made a bafflingly stupid post. Digging your heels on the whole "y-you missed the point!" isn't going to convince anyone.

Just swallow your pride, accept you made a mistake and move on.

Oh dear.

 

[My Tilly]

Wow

Conway's a beauty.
Probably becomes one of the best rucks in the comp within 5 years time.

 

[Tonythetiger]

They will stagger their retirements, same way as we have and look to bring in some younger talent at the right age bracket. I'd be surprised if they don't continue going down the same path where their players retire a couple of years later than most clubs, thus extending a few careers and having situation like Higgins and Smith where they are offering an extra year beyond what other clubs were willing to offer. I thought Broad from Tigers would have been a good fit and Grundy too if Dees pay some of his wages.

Geelong still have a pretty decent home ground advantage that whilst they might not be top 4 for a little while, you would expect them to be either the bottom of the 8 or on the fringe like this year.

 

[sobrave]

Another one who missed the point.

Is it school holidays?

The point is, you missed the point entirely to begin with. 2007 and onwards the stars aligned, generational talents like Hawkins and Ablett jnr coming on through father son - a cavalcade of all time greats all hitting their straps at once.

Unless you seriously think the current crop of youth you have is just as good?

The only times the team has looked half decent this year is when clangers, Duncan, Cameron, Hawkins etc have blinders. They're all old.

 

[Shadow89]

They will stagger their retirements, same way as we have and look to bring in some younger talent at the right age bracket. I'd be surprised if they don't continue going down the same path where their players retire a couple of years later than most clubs, thus extending a few careers and having situation like Higgins and Smith where they are offering an extra year beyond what other clubs were willing to offer. I thought Broad from Tigers would have been a good fit and Grundy too if Dees pay some of his wages.

Geelong still have a pretty decent home ground advantage that whilst they might not be top 4 for a little while, you would expect them to be either the bottom of the 8 or on the fringe like this year.

Last year and this year actually points to a mentality change that not a lot of neutral fans seem to have cottoned on to.

It's true that Scott had an unhealthy obsession with competing at the top end with the same players over and over again, believing they were 'this close', but just couldn't get it done when it mattered.

What's changed though, is that we no longer seem to have illusions of where we sit in the grand scheme of things. Even Scott's comments about 'whack a mole's, re: injuries and form, points to this.

After the 2021 flag we stripped everything back, and realized that going to the well over and over again was not working. As a result, we saw SDK lock down a KPD position for the entire year, after only playing 1 game the year before. We saw Conway, Foster and Knevitt taken in the draft alongside Whyte, Clohesy, and Murdoch (local falcons), and Stengle acquired as an SPP and the kids given greater responsibility, while previous stalwarts like Higgins, Dahlhaus and Menegola were kept out.

Then after the flag, we again changed tact and brought in Bruhn, Henry, Bowes and Jhye Clark with Pick 7, instead of trading for older established talent. We also chased an Irish young gun in Mullin, rather than going for McKenna as a lot had thought. We also held onto our 1st rounder this year, instead of trading it out for established talent.

This year we played the majority of our list, due to injury/resting older players/blooding young talent. As a result, only players who were injured or not quite ready, have not yet had a debut.

Pre-2021 I would have agreed with a lot of what was said on this board, but post-2021, there's been a massive shift in mentality - which was actually highlighted by Hocking and others at the end of last year, hence the bigger focus on young talent in the last 2 years.

It's likely Tuohy, Smith and Ceglar all retire this year, and then Hawkins, Rohan, Stanley and Duncan the following year. I don't think we have any illusions about where we sit right now, and I'd say for us now the best thing we can do is to drop down a bit and embrace the next stage of our future, as we have the last 2 years.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The point is, you missed the point entirely to begin with. 2007 and onwards the stars aligned, generational talents like Hawkins and Ablett jnr coming on through father son - a cavalcade of all time greats all hitting their straps at once.

Unless you seriously think the current crop of youth you have is just as good?

The only times the team has looked half decent this year is when clangers, Duncan, Cameron, Hawkins etc have blinders. They're all old.

Fmd.

 

[Taper]

The point is, you missed the point entirely to begin with. 2007 and onwards the stars aligned, generational talents like Hawkins and Ablett jnr coming on through father son - a cavalcade of all time greats all hitting their straps at once.

Unless you seriously think the current crop of youth you have is just as good?

The only times the team has looked half decent this year is when clangers, Duncan, Cameron, Hawkins etc have blinders. They're all old.

We beat a star studded Bulldogs midfield with our starting midfield being Bruhn, Holmes and Knevitt.
I'm confident those three along with Clark will form a star quality fab 4 midfield quartet for the next decade, with Clark being the best of the lot.

 

[matey]

We beat a star studded Bulldogs midfield with our starting midfield being Bruhn, Holmes and Knevitt.
I'm confident those three along with Clark will form a star quality fab 4 midfield quartet for the next decade, with Clark being the best of the lot.

The only thing that will do for the next decade is keep a thread going relating to tanking!

 

[STPer18]

Then after the flag, we again changed tact and brought in Bruhn, Henry, Bowes and Jhye Clark with Pick 7, instead of trading for older established talent. We also chased an Irish young gun in Mullin, rather than going for McKenna as a lot had thought. We also held onto our 1st rounder this year, instead of trading it out for established talent.

Good post, but this part specifically. If there was ever a year we'd go back to the top-up method you'd have banked on it being after winning a flag, but we did a complete 180 and brought in two highly touted 20 year olds in Bruhn and Henry (both who went before our earliest pick in their respective draft) + our first single draft pick since Selwood that we actually used ourselves rather than on-trading. The opposition 'concern' would be a lot more understandable if we threw all that away for some washed up oldies rather than adding to players we already have coming through the ranks like De Koning, Holmes, Stengle, Miers plus a few blokes at VFL level who look like taking the step up in the coming years.

 

[Wojcinski]

Good post, but this part specifically. If there was ever a year we'd go back to the top-up method you'd have banked on it being after winning a flag, but we did a complete 180 and brought in two highly touted 20 year olds in Bruhn and Henry (both who went before our earliest pick in their respective draft) + our first single draft pick since Selwood that we actually used ourselves rather than on-trading. The opposition 'concern' would be a lot more understandable if we threw all that away for some washed up oldies rather than adding to players we already have coming through the ranks like De Koning, Holmes, Stengle, Miers plus a few blokes at VFL level who look like taking the step up in the coming years.

stop making sense, all the accounts in here with Aug 2023 join dates need more fuel for their imaginary fire

 

[sobrave]

We beat a star studded Bulldogs midfield with our starting midfield being Bruhn, Holmes and Knevitt.
I'm confident those three along with Clark will form a star quality fab 4 midfield quartet for the next decade, with Clark being the best of the lot.

Lol you won because you kicked straight and the Bulldogs didnt. Lost pretty much every statistical category and had less scoring shots. But kicked 15.5 instead of 10.15. If you're relying on really accurate kicking to win it for you, that's not very sustainable. Again, most of your score was kicked by guys over 30.

Also I wouldn't be bragging too much about beating an ordinary Bulldogs team.

 

[STPer18]

stop making sense, all the accounts in here with Aug 2023 join dates need more fuel for their imaginary fire

Hey, they're just new users to our community who all happen to be mightily concerned about Geelong's future all of a sudden. No coincidence I'm sure!

 

[Shadow89]

Good post, but this part specifically. If there was ever a year we'd go back to the top-up method you'd have banked on it being after winning a flag, but we did a complete 180 and brought in two highly touted 20 year olds in Bruhn and Henry (both who went before our earliest pick in their respective draft) + our first single draft pick since Selwood that we actually used ourselves rather than on-trading. The opposition 'concern' would be a lot more understandable if we threw all that away for some washed up oldies rather than adding to players we already have coming through the ranks like De Koning, Holmes, Stengle, Miers plus a few blokes at VFL level who look like taking the step up in the coming years.

Yeah that's exactly it, spot on. It's always hard to convey the talent you have coming up, as a lot of it is speculative and nothing is guaranteed. With that said, this is the most talent we've brought in since the 99-01 drafting era, so we're definitely in a much different position than I thought we'd be post 2021 Prelim - and we snagged a flag in the process.

Not a lot probably realise either, but 15/23 of our players on the weekend were 28 or younger. Then you add in Conway, Jhye, Knevitt, Dempsey, Pick 8 this year and Mullin, and you basically have the bones of what will be our post Danger, Hawkins, Duncan side.

It won't be perfect, and we'll probably continue to slide for a couple of years, but we're definitely not in for the 'world of hurt' I thought we would be in 2021, when the philosophy was 'always compete and always top up.'

 

[sobrave]

It made absolutely zero sense for Geelong to win the flag last year with a team that old, but it happened so congratulations. But you can't avoid the cliff forever, and it's pretty much here.

If Hawkins and Dangerfield can stay fit most of next year, and Cameron returns to god mode then I suspect you'll be able to fight in the mid table jumble, but if you get injury woes then it'll be west coast territory.

 

[PhatBoy]

The point is, you missed the point entirely to begin with. 2007 and onwards the stars aligned, generational talents like Hawkins and Ablett jnr coming on through father son - a cavalcade of all time greats all hitting their straps at once.

Unless you seriously think the current crop of youth you have is just as good?

The only times the team has looked half decent this year is when clangers, Duncan, Cameron, Hawkins etc have blinders. They're all old.

This is what people are saying: aside from Hawkins - who barely played in 07-08 anyway - the only players who either were already elite, or were predicted to be elite, before 2007, were Scarlett and to an extent Bartel.

You could argue Ottens but he was a whipping boy.

The rest?
Johnson was flashy but rarely played more than the odd good game here and there. Mooney was bog ordinary. Chapman had never done a lot. Ling was hopeless. No one knew who Egan was. Lonergan was about to nearly be killed and it was a miracle he played again. Ablett was a flashy small forward good for 20-30 goals in a year. Selwood was a pick 7 who no one wanted because of his knees. Mackie had achieved nothing. Wojinscki was fast and useless. Joel Corey was no different to 150 other serviceable midfielders, Corey Enright didn’t even play as a permanent defender. Josh Hunt was a mistake prone Jake Kolodjashnij prototype with a penchant for turning the ball over. Matthew Stokes had played 9 games of senior footy. James Kelly had played 5 seasons and had only managed to play 20 games once. Our captain was a back pocket that no one would recognise.

Then we lost roughly 20 games in 5 years.


Does our current squad have any even remote potential to do that? The odds are that it doesn’t. I would be shocked if it did.
It doesn’t mean it can’t, and it definitely doesn’t mean the players we have can’t make the same improvements that players from other generations have made, and I’m baffled as to why people think any player group is just completely condemned to not being able to improve

 

[Art Vandelay_]

You'd be hard pressed to find something more pathetic than posting from a sock puppet account on an anonymous online football forum.

Roby goes close.

Didn’t like being called out yesterday so I am in his ignored club now. Badge of honour.

 

[Shadow89]

The only thing that will do for the next decade is keep a thread going relating to tanking!

What exactly are you trying to contribute now, except for trying to drive the boot in and wax lyrical about how amazing your club is and how shit ours is? You do realize we won a flag last year, you finished 16th this year and you haven't played Finals since 2018, yeah?

Christ you don't seem to shut up in this thread.

 

[STPer18]

Yeah that's exactly it, spot on. It's always hard to convey the talent you have coming up, as a lot of it is speculative and nothing is guaranteed. With that said, this is the most talent we've brought in since the 99-01 drafting era, so we're definitely in a much different position than I thought we'd be post 2021 Prelim - and we snagged a flag in the process.

Not a lot probably realise either, but 15/23 of our players on the weekend were 28 or younger. Then you add in Conway, Jhye, Knevitt, Dempsey, Pick 8 this year and Mullin, and you basically have the bones of what will be our post Danger, Hawkins, Duncan side.

It won't be perfect, and we'll probably continue to slide for a couple of years, but we're definitely not in for the 'world of hurt' I thought we would be in 2021, when the philosophy was 'always compete and always top up.'

It's a good point, things looked pretty grim Prelim final night 2021, yet we're sitting here a couple of years later with a flag in the bank and arguably our best crop of young talent in a long time. Maybe to opposition fans we look a little delirious, but considering where we were then to where we are now it's hard to get too worked up. There's no guarantee it'll end up in premiership success, but the same can be said for 17 other teams and their current lists, and when it comes to trade and draft time the guys in our corner seem to do alright more often than not.

 

[Shadow89]

It made absolutely zero sense for Geelong to win the flag last year with a team that old, but it happened so congratulations. But you can't avoid the cliff forever, and it's pretty much here.

If Hawkins and Dangerfield can stay fit most of next year, and Cameron returns to god mode then I suspect you'll be able to fight in the mid table jumble, but if you get injury woes then it'll be west coast territory.

We haven't avoided drafting like West Coast though...so not exactly sure that would be true.

In the past 4 years we've added (25 or under players that club/supporters think will make it):

Bruhn
O. Henry
Bowes
Close
Holmes
S. De Koning
Knevitt
Conway (yet to debut)
Jhye Clark
Stengle
Dempsey
S. Neale
Mullin

to 25 or under players already on the list in -

Z. Guthrie
J. Henry
Miers
Ratugolea (likely to be traded)
Parfitt

*********

That's 18 players. It's not the same as West Coast, as we didn't completely avoid the draft for years while we were trying to compete. Is it perfect? No. Is it catastrophic and a deliberate strategy of trying to eek out every last drop of our current list and then being in no man's land for the next decade? No.