Rumour GFC 2023 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt II

[cats_09]

Yep, this is making an appearance here also, and probably getting more useful as the season draws to a close and this discussion ramps up

 

[BORIS332]

Think Toby Green, SJ- brilliant players as forwards, can play brilliantly as mids, even Matty Stokes

Watson is a genuine match-winner. Has the intangibles.

 

[Vdubs]

It's still a ridiculous comment. They're not even close.

You can say they look after their troubled ones. A truly great club wouldn't even let the trouble start in the first place. A lot of these acts aren't even victimless crimes.

Mishaps happen everywhere, but the facts are Collingwood are the ones where it KEEPS happening. That's a trend, and it means in some degree that behaviour is allowed within the club.

How many have there been over the last few years? JDG, Howe, Thomas, Keefe, Swan, Johnson, Cloke, Crisp, Sidebottom, Buckley, Didak, Lumumba, Ginnivan, McGuire, Stephenson, Sier, Elliot, Murray.

Whether it's actually true or not, people talk about our club having a 'No dickheads' policy....From that list it seems like Collingwood have a 'Dickheads only' policy.

From the coach to captain, that policy has changed.
Whether you accept it or not, Collingwood is the most recognised club in the country, the most popular, the most members, movies and series are made about them, and they have played in the most GF's.

 

[BORIS332]

I've been a big Duncan fan over many years. That said, I saw some signs last season that make me worried about how quickly the cliff has approached. Out of our ageing players, I have him as one who I'd seriously doubt can deliver a solid batch of A Grade games. He's never been blessed with pace, but I'm more concerned about what role he can actually play.

He can't run through the midfield or play on a wing as the game is just too quick for him and he's easily exposed. There was a time when you could play someone like that off half back but that's now a slingshot run and carry type role, and where most clubs start their attack from.

Dangerfield and Guthrie still have enough explosiveness away from contests (Danger in shorter busts), and Blicavs is an elite runner with ridiculous aerobic capacity, but out of that older crop of players, I'm not sure what Duncan delivers? Sometimes the end comes quickly for some players, and as much as I've loved him as a player, I think I can easily see him falling outside best 22 throughout next year. Perhaps he plays a bit more footy in a sub role.

It's a young mans game as we so often hear........and there's not many spots you can hide blokes on a footy field in today's style of footy.

He had his pre-season completely derailed by his calf injury. Same thing happened to Sidebottom in 2022 and he had a great year this year. I suspect Duncan to do the same.

 

[Vdubs]

Watson is a genuine match-winner. Has the intangibles.

that's why I say, get him if he's there for us, but don't pigeon hole him as a small forward only

 

[Gee Class Loco]

So, what are the Giants offering for clubs to take on Nick Haynes

19

Nick Haynes

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

326.8

4star

D

17.4

4star

K

13.9

5star

HB

3.5

2star

M

8.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

MG

326.8

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

contract?
Willing to pay a portion is a good start.
But what draft pick would entice and raise the eyebrow of AMack?
Have we the space for another 800k, $900k or even a 1 million?? Not sure...
It's only a season.
But the bigger the salary the better the draft pick given.
Pick 34 from WCE they get for Flynn? Mmm.. not enough.
Pick 15 ? Shirley NOT? deja vu ? Yes please.
Pick 55 ? GTFOH
What i will say Haynes would be an excellent insurance policy for Jack Henry

38

Jack Henry

Age

25

Ht

192cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

142.6

2star

D

8.6

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

142.6

3star

D

9.6

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

4star

.
Thoughts fellas.

 

[Mr Meow]

I've been a big Duncan fan over many years. That said, I saw some signs last season that make me worried about how quickly the cliff has approached. Out of our ageing players, I have him as one who I'd seriously doubt can deliver a solid batch of A Grade games. He's never been blessed with pace, but I'm more concerned about what role he can actually play.

He can't run through the midfield or play on a wing as the game is just too quick for him and he's easily exposed. There was a time when you could play someone like that off half back but that's now a slingshot run and carry type role, and where most clubs start their attack from.

Dangerfield and Guthrie still have enough explosiveness away from contests (Danger in shorter busts), and Blicavs is an elite runner with ridiculous aerobic capacity, but out of that older crop of players, I'm not sure what Duncan delivers? Sometimes the end comes quickly for some players, and as much as I've loved him as a player, I think I can easily see him falling outside best 22 throughout next year. Perhaps he plays a bit more footy in a sub role.

It's a young mans game as we so often hear........and there's not many spots you can hide blokes on a footy field in today's style of footy.

His role is to fire off 17-18 effective disposals a game as he did in 2023 (behind only Stewart) and the 8 seasons before that. Probably in the Tuohy role, or failing that an attacking half forward pinging it into our excellent forwards.

Duncan is fine. He works better in a fit side that gives options ala 2022.

 

[Mr Meow]

He had his pre-season completely derailed by his calf injury. Same thing happened to Sidebottom in 2022 and he had a great year this year. I suspect Duncan to do the same.

And then another injury interruption mid year. He still pulled things around despite a few memorable errors, as one of our only genuine ball winners.

 

[moond0g]

I've been a big Duncan fan over many years. That said, I saw some signs last season that make me worried about how quickly the cliff has approached. Out of our ageing players, I have him as one who I'd seriously doubt can deliver a solid batch of A Grade games. He's never been blessed with pace, but I'm more concerned about what role he can actually play.

He can't run through the midfield or play on a wing as the game is just too quick for him and he's easily exposed. There was a time when you could play someone like that off half back but that's now a slingshot run and carry type role, and where most clubs start their attack from.

Dangerfield and Guthrie still have enough explosiveness away from contests (Danger in shorter busts), and Blicavs is an elite runner with ridiculous aerobic capacity, but out of that older crop of players, I'm not sure what Duncan delivers? Sometimes the end comes quickly for some players, and as much as I've loved him as a player, I think I can easily see him falling outside best 22 throughout next year. Perhaps he plays a bit more footy in a sub role.

It's a young mans game as we so often hear........and there's not many spots you can hide blokes on a footy field in today's style of footy.

For me it depends on his foot skills.

Anecdotally they seemed to drop a bit this year. If they go back to what we've been used to over the past decade, then there's certainly still a spot in my opinion, similar to Sidebottom this year maybe. But if they don't, then he may have problems contributing like you say.

 

[year of the cat]

I don’t think this is correct. Aaron Lord debuted in the 94 finals I believe and bruns retired after 92.

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story....

Who was dropped for Bruns? .......or also who came in for Lord in '94? Partridge ?

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

So, what are the Giants offering for clubs to take on Nick Haynes contract?
Willing to pay a portion is a good start.
But what draft pick would entice and raise the eyebrow of AMack?
Have we the space for another 800k, $900k or even a 1 million?? Not sure...
It's only a season.
But the bigger the salary the better the draft pick given.
Pick 34 from WCE they get for Flynn? Mmm.. not enough.
Pick 15 ? Shirley NOT? deja vu ? Yes please.
Pick 55 ? GTFOH
What i will say Haynes would be an excellent insurance policy for Jack Henry.
Thoughts fellas.

I think we could try for Haynes if we rate him as a player for 2024/25, otherwise don't take him.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

His role is to fire off 17-18 effective disposals a game as he did in 2023 (behind only Stewart) and the 8 seasons before that. Probably in the Tuohy role, or failing that an attacking half forward pinging it into our excellent forwards.

Duncan is fine. He works better in a fit side that gives options ala 2022.

That's the role he played to great effect in the 22GF - maybe we will see more of that going forward ( pardon the pun)

 

[Gee Class Loco]

I think we could try for Haynes if we rate him as a player for 2024/25, otherwise don't take him.

Yeah if we want just just a free agent.
But if we want insurance for 2024 and more so a nice draft pick this year then its entirely a different slant on what opportunity exists here.
Bowes Mark 2 ?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I don’t think this is correct. Aaron Lord debuted in the 94 finals I believe and bruns retired after 92.

Lord debuted in round 5 of 94. His next game that year was in the final against Carlton when Bairstow, Couch and Hocking were late outs.

 

[Hinkley29]

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story....

Who was dropped for Bruns? .......or also who came in for Lord in '94? Partridge ?

I can’t remember who was dropped for Bruns.

lord came into the 94 team against Carlton when bairstow, couch and Buddha were injured. He was dropped the following week against north when they all came back.

 

[terry_bright]

He had his pre-season completely derailed by his calf injury. Same thing happened to Sidebottom in 2022 and he had a great year this year. I suspect Duncan to do the same.

Nearly every preseason is derailed by injury of late for Duncan. Seems to always be unavailable for the first few rounds of a season. Used to be one of the most dependable (in terms of injury) players. Not so for the last five season.

Duncan has something to offer still, and I reckon it could be as a sub. Duncan or Tuohy. The impact they could have on a game when the sting has gone out of it, could be as beneficial as if they started.

 

[stac]

I can’t remember who was dropped for Bruns.

lord came into the 94 team against Carlton when bairstow, couch and Buddha were injured. He was dropped the following week against north when they all came back.

and from memory played a really good game
unlucky to be dropped the following week

 

[year of the cat]

Lord debuted in round 5 of 94. His next game that year was in the final against Carlton when Bairstow, Couch and Hocking were late outs.

One of the best finals we had in that era. To win without those 3 was extraordinary. Lord and Tanner dominated the midfield and Ablett..... was just Ablett.

 

[Hinkley29]

and from memory played a really good game
unlucky to be dropped the following week

Yeah, 24 possessions and a goal back when 24 possessions was a big total. 17 kicks, second most on the ground behind Pickering.

He was unlucky to be dropped but Buddha came in against north with a lazy 34 possies and Couch came back with 26 possessions and 3 goals so I think they made the right call. Probably should have dropped Wills who had a combined 8 possessions across the 2 games.

 

[Turbocat]

Bring in a large group of developing talls, with no expectation of a quick return.

I was thinking something along this line ...the next draft or two will be mid heavy. The resale on talls seems solid..and getting too many is a situation not many clubs have to be concerned with. Certainly add another developing ruck like Pike or Goad. Add a tall capable of multiple roles ...and just bank them. Have a look at Lord at Port ... he was there for the taking and we took Stevens.Would it influence your choices with the early picks? Caddy's upside has been talked about but one that has gone quiet is Archer Reid.

 

[And_ROOS]

him being omitted for that final was our biggest match committee and coaching screw up of the last 15 years.

The thing I hated about that omission was it was due to potential "heavy rain" which ended up not happening, and pre-match when asked about it Scott replied "we are still pretty tall" or something to that effect.

Esava was poor, Blicavs wasn't much better in the ruck after having a great season in defence, they combined for a total of 24 hit outs to Grundys 47, a combined 21 disposals 6 clearances to Grundys 21 disposals and 7 clearances.
Stanley the next week was straight back into the team.
The match before the finals in Rd 23 against the Blues Stanley beat Kruezer when he was a decent ruck. Dropping him made absolutely no sense its not like Stanley was wildly out of form. He had 35 HOs, 15 disposals and a goal.


I still think the worst decision the club has made in the last 15 years was making Chapman the sub against Fremantle in the 2013 QF in Geelong.

 

[Catman]

I can’t remember who was dropped for Bruns.

lord came into the 94 team against Carlton when bairstow, couch and Buddha were injured. He was dropped the following week against north when they all came back.

Andrew Bews was the player that was dropped for Bruns in 92.

 

[And_ROOS]

Stanley has been a below average player for his entire career.

His stats have him slightly above average, but the issue is he has a purple patch each season then usually picks up an injury and kills his momentum.
His best seasons, he usually gets an average of around 14 disposals, 28 hit outs a game, kicks a few goals when he rests forward.

The issue is besides 2022/2021/2019 he is missing too many games and usually right when we really need him and as he gets older the concern is that it continues.

Can't rely on Conway yet, which is why a decent back up ruck is required for 2024.

I have a lot of faith that Conway becomes a top tier ruck, but I can't see it happening consistently for another 2 or 3 years. We need something for the gap between now and then because if Stanley goes down, and Esava is traded out, and Conway has a 2024 like his 2023 we are completely ****ed.

 

[CatRiot]

My personal assessment of our list only (understand opinions differ):

View attachment 1823834

View attachment 1823832

Based on this, I'd be looking for a KPD and ruckman in the trade period/free agency. A huge chunk of our list is in the midfield, at the draft (with later picks) we should look at beefing up KPD and forward stocks.

I agree mostly with this.

Bring in a large group of developing talls, with no expectation of a quick return.

Depending on how we draft, we either get Sanders (probably unlikely with our first pick), and then with a later pick you'd be looking at best available. I think we will split 7, and I do think we will get 28 for Esava and maybe a little bit more like late pick swaps potentially 72 for 83, not that will make a huge difference, but may boost us another 3-4 spots with that last pick.

If we decide to do pick swaps with our draft hand, I will expect a key position player to be selected, maybe even two.

I agree with this assessment. One key defender or ruck goes down with injury and its trouble with a knock on effect in other areas of the ground. Our midfields not perfect but at least we have some youth and depth there. If we don't bring in a ruck and a key defender, its probable our season will be screwed.

Keen to see ZZ's combine data, as he looks like a Blitz clone and can provide us with that 2nd ruck and mid option as well as key position. If not, then I'd be very keen to get Arie Shoenmakers as a Key Defender with a pick in the 15-30 range which I suspect he could go. He not only can shutdown opponent, he takes loads of intercept marks and has a beautiful kick on him that can set play up. A very good partnering option to SDK.

If we are looking at a combination of players, probably this list is what I'd be looking at:
Ryley Sanders - best pure mid with size (probably excluding McKercher for hurt factor, and Reid when he plays in the guts)
Nate Caddy - could be best of the draft, or a bust, but has high end talent, both as a Key Forward (curnow style as the No2) or as an Outside Mid (depending on running capability at combine - i suspect he has it).
Connor O'Sullivan - Big Key Defender, probably a similar style to SDK, would prefer Schoenmakers as he sets up play better.
If we downgrade Pick 7, I'd look at these sort of options and others:
Darcy Wilson - decent outside mid that takes marks and can go goal side and has hurt factor
Charlie Edwards - might have similar upside to Wilson, but not as consistent.
Arie Shoenmakers - the intercept key defender, with a nice kick, can setup play.
ZZ - Looks similar to Blicavs, plug and play player, can chop out in ruck.
George Stevens - BoyBeast - Could end up being a better extractor than the rest of the mids, but doesnt have the same high end running capability or hurt factor.

If we are looking at late picks, don't mind a ready made player, or something like Haste - bigger body and can run fast, break lines.

Don't mind if we get another Irish kid, but he must have very high athletic traits that are through the roof compared to our local kids and have high skills, otherwise don't bother. He needs to have higher upside than say MOC, who I think is a decent player, but nothing exceptional other than lockdown roles tbh.

 

[And_ROOS]

So, what are the Giants offering for clubs to take on Nick Haynes contract?
Willing to pay a portion is a good start.
But what draft pick would entice and raise the eyebrow of AMack?
Have we the space for another 800k, $900k or even a 1 million?? Not sure...
It's only a season.
But the bigger the salary the better the draft pick given.
Pick 34 from WCE they get for Flynn? Mmm.. not enough.
Pick 15 ? Shirley NOT? deja vu ? Yes please.
Pick 55 ? GTFOH
What i will say Haynes would be an excellent insurance policy for Jack Henry.
Thoughts fellas.

I rate Haynes as depth, especially if its for a season or two and if it comes with an excellent draft pick then I see it the same way as the Bowes selection. Bowes was ok this season, but in the midfield against the Dogs was much better and gives me hope he kicks on and does well as a pure midfielder next season rather than playing off HBF.

So if we get Haynes for a year or 2 with a great pick, do it, Henry has had injury issues two years in a row, Haynes hasn't dropped off that much as he has hit 31, and was still was a good intercept marker so if we lose Stewart or ZGuthrie he can fill that role too.
And in his best games this season against the Lions, the Demons and the Bulldogs he was taking a lot of intercepts so not like his best games are against trash teams.

 

[Sire of Claude]

All the players on the move want Hawthorn, Eesendon, Carlton or the Saints. Essendon is the flavour of the month. A few want to go to the Roos.

What's wrong with us? True, we haven't got much trade capital - but even so.