Greg Williams vs James Hird

[windyhill]

He never captained any of his 3 clubs, he was almost introverted off the field. Hird was pretty much annointed from day one as a future captain.

 

[Dan26]

He never captained any of his 3 clubs, he was almost introverted off the field. Hird was pretty much annointed from day one as a future captain.

I agree, but that is more of a charcter trait. On field, though, the "way" Williams played was pure team. He made his teamates look good, by bringing them into the game.

 

[sr36]

Diesel

Different eras and different style of player. the only real way of comparing them is with their standing in the game at the time. Diesel was the undisputed best player in the league for a while. Hird never was. It was carey in the first half of Hird's career and the perpetual Buckley, Hird and voss comparison.

The Williams anecdote that summed up how good he was was told once by Michael Turner. It was Diesel's first game and Turner was the captain at the time. At the first bounce Williams told his captain, who was playing on the wing, to move ten metres further forward and where to run to. a bemused captain followed the instructions of this arrogant first gamer. Williams then won the ball at the first centre bounce and passed it to Turner who found himself in the clear and was able to have a shot at goal.
No doubt there is a bit of licence in the story, but he was that good.

 

[mediumsizered]

He never captained any of his 3 clubs, he was almost introverted off the field. Hird was pretty much annointed from day one as a future captain.

You are correct in saying Williams was (still is) introverted off the field. On the field though, he was a leader, constantly marshalling players into position & flying the flag, even on days when Carlton were struggling.

It is such a shame that Williams is so introverted, because with his above average understanding of the game he could have been a great coach. Suffice to say that Jobe Watson is very grateful for the advice he received from Diesel.

I have no hesitation in rating Williams as the best midfielder I have seen in 40+ years of following the game.

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

Hird easily better.

I find it strange that one person voted equal so far. I mean seriously, 2 players are exactly as good as each other.

 

[Thrawn]

Hird easily better.

And you base this on, what, exactly?

 

[sr36]

Hird easily better.

I find it strange that one person voted equal so far. I mean seriously, 2 players are exactly as good as each other.

I find your claim that Hird was easily better much stranger.

Hird was very good at everything and didn't really have a weakness, but wasn't truly great at any one facet of the game.

williams, on the other hand, had his share of weaknesses - slow, didn't think the defensive side of the game was necessary (played in an era were stars were afforded this luxury) But on the positive side of the ledger, he was simply the best there has ever been when it comes to winning and distributing the football in congestion.

 

[MinerBoy]

When creating these polls there should be another dimension added....

Hird - but I saw Diesel's full career.
Hird - I am a teenager/20-something who never saw Diesel play.

 

[Gone Critical]

Have to laugh at BF polls sometimes ... Diesel was the better player; and by some way too. Hird is better suited to Buckley/Voss comparisons and Sheehan got this one right on having at least 10 players between them, as the gap is fairly significant.

Watching Diesel play at the Swans was just awesome and I was ecstatic when he came to the Blues; 10 fold when compared to Judd's arrival, he was just that good. Out and out the best mid I've seen.

You obviously are too young to have seen Leigh Matthews then. Their careers just overlapped but i can assure you if you loved watching Diesel you would have been in heaven watching Lethal.

"Diesel was the better player; and by some way too at his best".This needs to be prefaced by "in my opinion".

I wax and wane a little on this comparison, they are close. I believe Williams falls well into the group of Voss Buckley and Hird. They are all very close. I would put Voss top of the group but can live with any opinion that rates one or other of the 4 as the best

 

[Gone Critical]

You are correct in saying Williams was (still is) introverted off the field. On the field though, he was a leader, constantly marshalling players into position & flying the flag, even on days when Carlton were struggling.

It is such a shame that Williams is so introverted, because with his above average understanding of the game he could have been a great coach. Suffice to say that Jobe Watson is very grateful for the advice he received from Diesel.

I have no hesitation in rating Williams as the best midfielder I have seen in 40+ years of following the game.

Now with 40+ years of following game you dont have the youth excuse.

Its hard to make an argument for any other than Lethal through this time. Not only the best midfielder I have seen but the best player.

 

[Footy Is The Win]

James Hird.

Diesel was good but Hird was a champion.

I hate Essendon with a passion, but James Hird was one of the most guttiest, most honest & most skillful players to ever play this great game.

Diesel never had the X-Factor like Jimmy did.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Both equally good in their different ways.

 

[Monkey King]

You obviously are too young to have seen Leigh Matthews then. Their careers just overlapped but i can assure you if you loved watching Diesel you would have been in heaven watching Lethal.

I saw enough of Lethal live, courtesy of my Hawk supporting grandfather. I rate Diesel as a pure mid, better than Lethal as a pure rover. As players though, I'd put Lethal in the best two I've seen - he simply had dimensions to his game that Diesel didn't. To qualify this, I can't really remember the first 5-6 years of Lethal's career.

I believe Williams falls well into the group of Voss Buckley and Hird. They are all very close. I would put Voss top of the group but can live with any opinion that rates one or other of the 4 as the best

IMO Williams is a step above all those players. IMO he comes very close to the Ablett bracket in his own way. The guy was an out and out freak and it doesn't surprise me one bit that Sheehan rates him 10th among all those he's seen play the game.

Ironically, I rate Voss - as a player - last out of the other 3 over their careers.

 

[Monkey King]

Diesel was good but Hird was a champion.

This is probably one of the stranger comments I've seen on BF.

When creating these polls there should be another dimension added....

Hird - but I saw Diesel's full career.
Hird - I am a teenager/20-something who never saw Diesel play.

Agree 100%. Would be a necessary distinction.

 

[bluepride]

So so many teenages around 15/16 posting here I think.

If you saw Diesel play you would have him by that much its not funny.

I saw Hird play and he was special, but just missed so many games of football through injury and had to recover once getting back.

Diesel was just suspended abit.

Get a clue people.

 

[Gone Critical]

I saw enough of Lethal live, courtesy of my Hawk supporting grandfather. I rate Diesel as a pure mid, better than Lethal as a pure rover. As players though, I'd put Lethal in the best two I've seen - he simply had dimensions to his game that Diesel didn't. To qualify this, I can't really remember the first 5-6 years of Lethal's career.

I am assuming you are meaning Diesel is the best centreman you have seen vs Leigh being the best rover. To me a midfielder would encompass the centreline plus rover and ruck rover.

The distinction between rover and centreman had meaning back in Leighs and even Diesels day but was largely irrelevant by the time Voss Buckley and Hird played and is completely redundant now.

 

[Gone Critical]

A clear rung above Hird, whose legend has grown 10 fold since retirement.

Ironically, I rate Voss - as a player - last out of the other 3 over their careers.

Absolutely agree with your comment on Hird. Finishing his playing career on a high note then the business success and smooth media performances has pushed his stocks up significantly

On the flip side Voss who was in my memory most often rated highest of Voss, Buckley and Hird while they were playing has been in a bear market when it comes to playing reputation

He was a physical wreck in his final season which unlike Hird was not at all representative of his overall career. His foray into the media was subpar. Pedestrian cliched and banal would describe his special comments while Hird/Buckley exuded football intelligence and insight with theirs

Now the less than illustrious coaching career

My feeling is these factors have significantly changed the perception of Voss the player. Sorry for the tangent

 

[HighettBomber]

I saw plenty of Williams play and he couldn't hold a candle to Jimmy Hird. They were different types of players, but Diesel was useless defensively and while he had great games where he dominated, there were also plenty where his opponent cut his side up. I don't remember too many opponents of Hird cutting Essendon up, they did well if they curbed his influence.

Williams was also a sook, and incredibly dirty.

 

[Gone Critical]

If you saw Diesel play you would have him by that much its not funny.


Get a clue people.

I saw plenty of Williams play and he couldn't hold a candle to Jimmy Hird. .

This is signature worthy, your a muppet if you think thats true.

Of course Bluepride yours is a balanced unbiased view

Also love your opinion that the majority who have an alternate view must just be ignorant 15 year olds because they dont agree with you. Not biased much?

 

[Jesse Custer]

Of course Bluepride yours is a balanced unbiased view

Also love your opinion that the majority who have an alternate view must just be ignorant 15 year olds because they dont agree with you. Not biased much?

Exactly. Too hard to judge because they were brilliant in their own ways. But its obvious that James had many more strings to his bow.

 

[MinerBoy]

Exactly. Too hard to judge because they were brilliant in their own ways. But its obvious that James had many more strings to his bow.

The amount of strings on your bow doesn't really matter if the one string you use always makes the kill.

 

[sydjackson]

So so many teenages around 15/16 posting here I think.

If you saw Diesel play you would have him by that much its not funny.

I saw Hird play and he was special, but just missed so many games of football through injury and had to recover once getting back.

Diesel was just suspended abit.

Get a clue people.

And you claim to be around the 22 years of age mark which means you were about 6 or 7 when Diesel retired! So, what are you basing your claim on.
You haven't got a picture of yourself sitting on his knee have you?

 

[Jesse Custer]

The amount of strings on your bow doesn't really matter if the one string you use always makes the kill.

Fair enough, but all of James strings were very deadly.

 

[MinerBoy]

Fair enough, but all of James strings were very deadly.

Jack of all trades - master of none.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Jack of all trades - master of none.

yeah nah. He definitely was a master on the footy field.