Preview Hawks vs Dees - Changes and discussion

[PottSie2]

Muston has to come in? I don't understand what he did wrong in the first place? He had two good games and maybe one average one didn't he? But they picked suckling over him. Doesn't make sense to me

Unfortunately he wasn't in the 2008 Premiership team so he doesn't get the free pass.

 

[buddylg]

I know its not probable, but I would like to this team and set up against the Dees.

B: Gilham - Stratton- Brown

HB: Schoenmakers- Roughead - Gibson

C: Savage - Mitchell - Young

HF: Osborne - Lisle - Hooper

F: Lewis - Franklin - Muston

R: Renouf - Hodge - Burgoyne

Int: Skipper, Murphy, Peterson, Bateman

What I like about Roughead in the backline is that he has no pressure to kick goals. He is fantastic at crashing packs and taking strong grabs, his field kicking is good and he is excellent at roving his dropped marks.

Lisle and Savage should be allowed the same chance as Suckling and Taylor. However Lisle can kick goals (better kick than Roughy IMO) and Savage is one of the best runners at the club.

I like how Skipper takes chances at grabbing the ball and just throwing it on his boot. Taylor did nothing yesterday. Will someone create bionic unbreakable legs and give them to Bailey asap? And then feed Lowden some undetectable 'roids....

My backline: All of them are defenders first, unlike Guerra and Birchall. Schoenmakers and Gibson are good to rebound (I pulled my hair out over Guerra...lol). Schoenmakers may stuff it occaisionally, however I reckon with Roughead in the backline Schoe will be in good company. Also, now that we know Stratton literally can do everything (nice goal lad) he could swing forward.

Buddy looked great out of the goal square, Muston kicks goals and goes hard and Hooper will snaffle goals easily. He only needs to play 50% game time...he knows how to ruffle opposition players and create opportunity.

Burgoyne and Hodge in the middle at the start please. Hodge and Burgoyne are the best clearance players in our team, so they should always start in the middle.

As I said, this team sheet is irrelevant as it would never happen. But its what I would do.

Birchall, Guerra, Ladson, others....not good enough. Need to find hunger, discipline and effort that made you apart of the 2008 GF team.

 

[HawksonFire]

The papers mention that Hodge may come under scrutiny for incident with Goodes. It was hardly clear what if anything even happened. Surely this is media beat up and nothiong there..... I would hasve thought the sydney bloke who managed to get an elbow into Sucklings face had more concerns- but doesn't seem to rate a mention.
That doesn't worry me- surely Hodge is ok........
Thoughts?

Really hoping Hooper has a good game today- really think we need him without Rioli. Its a very interesting box hill game today with so many Hawk listed players vying for spots, not to mention Box Hills top 4 hopes....

 

[Teamwork Talks]

Out: Suckling, Ladson, Birchall, Moss
In: Brown, Hooper, Peterson, Schoenmakers

Hooper and Peterson in for speed and ghoal kicking ability.
Brwon in for agression at the ball on backline.
Schoenmakers in for height in backline.

 

[Brant]

I am not against the idea of Roughy going back BuddLG - I just see a big hole in our Forward Line if we use a 'untried, first gamer' in Lisle at CHF and leave Franklin at FF - it effectively leaves nobody in the spine between the centreline and the goals if Buddy plays out of the square. Swap the 2 around however & it looks better (IMO).

 

[Bear Goals]

Pretty Obvious ins this week IMO, i didn't see the game only saw highlights but most of the highlights resulted with Sydney having numbers at stoppages and taking the ball away from the stoppage. I also think the SCG didn't suit us, didn't give Young, Bateman or Birch a chance to run and carry.

In: Hooper, Brown and Peterson/Muston ( Depending on how they went in VFL)
Out: Suckling, Moss ( Unlucky, Hooper is that 10% better) and Ladson/Ellis/ Birchall

I reckon we will bounce back, Melbourne will not be easy beats, but i think our mature bodies migth sort them. Roughy and Buddy to fire
Hawks by 39

 

[buddylg]

I am not against the idea of Roughy going back BuddLG - I just see a big hole in our Forward Line if we use a 'untried, first gamer' in Lisle at CHF and leave Franklin at FF - it effectively leaves nobody in the spine between the centreline and the goals if Buddy plays out of the square. Swap the 2 around however & it looks better (IMO).

I get ya. How about clear out the 50, Buddy and Hooper approx 20m out and Lisle on the goal line? Its never gonna happen! But I dare to dream

 

[Roby]

Ironically the last time we played Melbourne Peterson was the best player on the ground in the first half and his pressure along with Hoopers and Brown up forward allowed us to record 21 tackles inside 50. It stopped Melbourne's play on at all costs from defence and we comprehensively beat them

Brown, Hooper, Peterson and Skipper IN.

Taylor, Suckling, Moss and Ladson OUT.

I want to get Muston in but I wonder if that is too many changes. Ellis, Birchall and Osborne are the only other which have a question mark on them but I find it difficult to drop them.

 

[TheFourPillars]

If you are going on form Muston has to come in. Shiels is a chance. Dare i say it Morton has had a few good weeks playing in defence. Maybe he is a shot. Oh almost forgot skipper must come back in i think peterson and hooper are interesting because they had some good periods but were largely quiet this game

 

[Pessimistic]

On a side note. Does anyone think it would be possible if we could request to not have Kelli Underwood commentate our games next year when we submit our fixture requests for next year?

I was more and more peed off at the dribblings of that whining woman commentating.

Kelli wasnt much better either

 

[Hawks1523]

Outs - Simple Simon, Ladson, Suckling, Moss

Ins - Skipper, Brown, Hooper, Peterson,

Nailed it in the first post. Exact same ins and outs I had in mind.

I can not believe we dropped Skipper for Taylor. Skipper was trying his guts out for the footy side and did some good things. Simon Taylor is one of the worst rucks in the AFL

IMO Skipper is ahead of Taylor. Said in 2008 he isn't a premiership ruckman, he never will be.. the fact he still gets a game for us just shows how weak our ruck division is atm. (Be that through injury or the players not being ready to play AFL)

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

In: Brown and Hooper

Out: Suckling and Moss

 

[madhawksfan]

Poor doesn't do enough to sun up the effort in the 1st half. We got shown up by a team of second rate players (except Goodes and O'Keefe) and didn't look like we wanted to be there. The sad thing is we could have still been in the game at half time if we had converted some of our rare shots on goals. This despite having the least possessions of any side in the comp in the first half of any game this season. Gibbo, Stratts, Mitch, Burger, Lewis and Sewell are the only guys who can hold their heads up IMO. We need some fire and pace back this week, so for me:

In: Brown, Hooper, Schoey, Skipper
Out: Suckling (pathetic), Moss (did ok but Hoops is better), Ellis (had enough chances) and Taylor

 

[MinerBoy]

No wholesale changes. Now isn't the time to be mucking around with the likes of Lisle, Bruest and Savage.

Definitely in - Brown.
If fit, definitely in - Hooper.

The only reserves we should consider if required - Muston, Peterson.

Skipper v Taylor - honestly don't know. We are getting smashed in the middle. Taylor does have the tap game to rectify this. Whether he does or not is the big question.

Outs - Suckling (and Moss if we make two changes).


Summary - get Brown and Hooper in this week and smash the Demons. Get Cyril back the week after and smash the Dockers. The side remains the same for the rest of the season as long as they bring 'their game'.

 

[discoduck]

i'm not a traditional thomas murphy basher and i know he performed well during our 7 game winning streak BUT

saturday's game showed me why hawthorn will not and can not win a premiership with him in the team.

my prime example is the first goal of the game, when you're supposed to be full of energy and right on the job.

murphy - pissy contest at the top of the goal square, ball falls over the back.
murphy - half-hearted attempt to get to the ball, but goodes gets there first and baulks.
murphy - stops and star gazes before goodes baulks back towards him.
murphy - half-hearted attempt to get near him to smother, but goodes goals.

terrible, terrible, terrible and we can not win with him.

not the lone ranger by any means. i recall an opportunity for gilham to put his body on the line when dennis-lane got a hand to it and knocked it forward before regathering and he was soft too, but gilham does a job murphy can not do and we cannot win a premiership with him in the team.

AND how many times in the last two weeks have we had a third man go up in a contest, only for him to have little impact and the ball to fall to his opponent for an easy goal.

IF YOU CAN'T INFLUENCE THE CONTEST, STAY ON YOUR MAN.

 

[Henry Jr]

Roos had this one won before the first bounce.

All week, everyone was talking up that the long ball is the danger re the Port game.

And Roos knew that this was an area that we would OVER FOCUS on. So everytime there was a long ball in, every Hawthorn player would fly and he instructed his players to stay on the ground for the crumb (see Jesse Smith palm the ball down rather than going for the mark).

Worked beautifully. Well done Swans.

 

[hawkheart]

Roos had this one won before the first bounce.

All week, everyone was talking up that the long ball is the danger re the Port game.

And Roos knew that this was an area that we would OVER FOCUS on. So everytime there was a long ball in, every Hawthorn player would fly and he instructed his players to stay on the ground for the crumb (see Jesse Smith palm the ball down rather than going for the mark).

Worked beautifully. Well done Swans.

Astute comment.

 

[Hawks1523]

Skipper v Taylor - honestly don't know. We are getting smashed in the middle. Taylor does have the tap game to rectify this. Whether he does or not is the big question.

He may have the tap game, but his around the ground work is piss poor, and that's putting it nicely. At least Skipper can get the ball, and doesn't look completely clueless once he gets it. We're playing against Jamar, who will take Taylor to the cleaners if we play him.

 

[go hawks!!!]

What are your thoughts on tuck replacing Ellis?

Tuck cleared the ball some much yesterday at box hill which Mitch and sewell are not doing great ATM. Tuck does not have legspeed but I feel he could take the next step if given the opportunity. Ellis has been extremely poor.

For me

Hooper for moss
brown for laddo/ suckling
ruck for Ellis

Taylor well we don't usually make 4 changes so I don't see clarko dropping Ellis so Taylor will be the third.

Sewell- on notice again way too loose
gilham- needs to get his body in there one more poor game and I would put gibbo at full back and shoey at half back. However I am sure gilham will come good just under pressure due to us losing the midfield

 

[MinerBoy]

He may have the tap game, but his around the ground work is piss poor, and that's putting it nicely. At least Skipper can get the ball, and doesn't look completely clueless once he gets it. We're playing against Jamar, who will take Taylor to the cleaners if we play him.

How much better around the ground do you really think Skipper is? He isn't Jim Stynes, Jeff White or Adam Goodes. No doubt he moves better and is better with the ball in his hands. However, in terms of that making absolutely any difference to the result of our games, I reckon our ruckmen's ball winning ability means 4/5ths of f-all.

On the other hand, if we can get a ruckman actually putting some ball on the tit of a streaming forward Hodge, Mitch, Burger etc, then that will have a significant scoreboard impact. For such a talented group of extractors, we have been getting rogered out of the middle for the past 18 months. We need a ruckman who can feed our ball winners.

Whether Taylor can do this or not is the big question - but he is the most likely of those available.

Just wish Spida was 6 years younger and a good bloke. Man he could set Mitch and Crawf away.

 

[WWSD]

In: Brown and Hooper

Out: Suckling and Moss

Agree!

EMG Peterson Muston Skipper

 

[alexhawk]

I know its not probable, but I would like to this team and set up against the Dees.

B: Gilham - Stratton- Brown

HB: Schoenmakers- Roughead - Gibson

C: Savage - Mitchell - Young

HF: Osborne - Lisle - Hooper

F: Lewis - Franklin - Muston

R: Renouf - Hodge - Burgoyne

Int: Skipper, Murphy, Peterson, Bateman

What I like about Roughead in the backline is that he has no pressure to kick goals. He is fantastic at crashing packs and taking strong grabs, his field kicking is good and he is excellent at roving his dropped marks.

Lisle and Savage should be allowed the same chance as Suckling and Taylor. However Lisle can kick goals (better kick than Roughy IMO) and Savage is one of the best runners at the club.

I like how Skipper takes chances at grabbing the ball and just throwing it on his boot. Taylor did nothing yesterday. Will someone create bionic unbreakable legs and give them to Bailey asap? And then feed Lowden some undetectable 'roids....

My backline: All of them are defenders first, unlike Guerra and Birchall. Schoenmakers and Gibson are good to rebound (I pulled my hair out over Guerra...lol). Schoenmakers may stuff it occaisionally, however I reckon with Roughead in the backline Schoe will be in good company. Also, now that we know Stratton literally can do everything (nice goal lad) he could swing forward.

Buddy looked great out of the goal square, Muston kicks goals and goes hard and Hooper will snaffle goals easily. He only needs to play 50% game time...he knows how to ruffle opposition players and create opportunity.

Burgoyne and Hodge in the middle at the start please. Hodge and Burgoyne are the best clearance players in our team, so they should always start in the middle.

As I said, this team sheet is irrelevant as it would never happen. But its what I would do.

Birchall, Guerra, Ladson, others....not good enough. Need to find hunger, discipline and effort that made you apart of the 2008 GF team.

Actually agree with a lot of this, Guerra makes me pull my hair out as well. Can't remember whether it was the Age or the Herald Sun, but someone named him in Hawthorn's best... HOW? Perhaps look beyond number of possessions and see what he does with them!!??

Hodge and Burgoyne definitely should start in the middle. Can't believe Clarkson let O'Keefe play a negative half forward role on Hodge, he is a dngerous player and was always going to kick 3 or 4.

Agree that Birchall Guerra and Ladson need to display a bit more passion for the contest, but even Hodge looked like he was chasing tail on Saturday....

BUT.... Roughy is a FORWARD, and will remain a forward. The suggestion that he be swapped to a completely different position 3 rounds from the end of the home and away season is just ridiculous. The back line you have suggested is too tall, and too slow. Leave things as they are for the most part, and demand better performances.

Regarding the ruck, i don't think the coaching staff will drop Taylor, having brought him back in they will give him two weeks to prove himself. Which IMHO is the wrong thing. Skipper did nothing to warrant being dropped, and Taylor's pathetic performance on the weekend did nothing to convince me that the coaching staff know something about Taylor the rest of us can't see.....

So this won't happen, but what i want;

Ins: Hooper, Brown, Skipper

Outs: Taylor, Ladson, Suckling

 

[buddylg]

BUT.... Roughy is a FORWARD, and will remain a forward. The suggestion that he be swapped to a completely different position 3 rounds from the end of the home and away season is just ridiculous. The back line you have suggested is too tall, and too slow. Leave things as they are for the most part, and demand better performances.

What will it take to experiment with Rough at CHB????

Croad and Tarrant were "forwards and will remain a FORWARD" but went on to become solid, AA (or almost in Tarrant's case) defenders.

I mean if I said to you at r1 in 2008 that Hodge would win a Norm Smitch playing CHB you would have called me crazy....

As I said tho, its just a wish list or perhaps something we should have done in r4-5. Just a bit of arm-chair coaching.

I actually think it will be

In: Hooper, Brown, Skipper
Out: Don't know

Shiels and Schoey are playing well at BH, Morton probably close too.

 

[Buddy Guy]

I would be interested in hearing the thoughts of Go Hawks and others who are qualified to comment of excactly where JKT "is at" at this stage of the year.

He had one very ordinary game against Essendon and was obviously banished to pergatory for that effort.

Is he any chance of playing another game this year?
Would he be a suitable replacement for Ellis/Ladson/Moss/Suckling in the coming weeks?

Reading the Box Hill reports he does seem to get mentioned in the best players quite regularly but he doesnt seem to rate a mention on these boards when discussing team selections.

 

[Taskmaster]

Ins: Hooper, Skipper, Brown and Peterson

Outs: Taylor (My 4 year old son has better football ability, he knows how to kick and handball and even take a chest mark!!!), Suckling (Not up to it), Ellis (Still playing school boy footy, how many chances does this boy get??) and either Ladson or Moss.

And very close behind the outs are : Birchall and Guerra.

Time to make the hard decisions.

All the players mentioned are all passengers, they leave it to the likes of Hodgey, Mitch, Buddy etc to do there work. As good as these 3 are, they still need help, which they are not getting! Maybe they need to watch a Geel or Coll game and see how they block and help out Ablett, Selwood, Swan and Pendilbury!

Stand up Hawks now or never!