How do you fix Melbourne?

[Reykjavik]

The true reason the previous pope decided to step down - he tested positive for popetides.

At least he would have confessed and shown repentance...

 

[loki04]

The problem is the losing mindset! To pick up draft picks sets up the wrong believe system. I am not the one to say lose but breeding failure breeds failure. Also after last season there should been been going to the draft and rebuilding. The only player they should have traded for was Chris Dawes as he played in a successful team. They mucked up big time and this will set the club back 4 or 5 years in rebuilding.

What you and many other fail to realise is "rebuilding" is more then just getting a heap of picks, all the successful rebuilds actually bought in multiple solid footballers to help lead and groom the talent coming through.

When MM came to the pies we were a rabble he went out and got hardned bodies and got a competitive group before then adding the cream ie top picks.

If any thing Melb can afford to off load some more picks for genuine quality players and also should be looking t the 2nd teir leagues best players more then they have.

People suggesting they need to rebuild through picks must be bat shit crazy not 1 club has tanked their way to a flag off a list full of 1st rounders. Melb hav tried this route and look where they are, smart trading like Swans and Pies have done will help much more then adding another Watts, Toumpas, Trengove etc. They need on field leaders and getting Dawes, Rhodan and Burns was a start but they need another 3-4 next trade period to steer the ship and also make the top picks earn their spot.

Last night there were all bar about 4 players who should be playing VFL due to endeavour and attitude, if I was Neeld i would make wholesale changes this week and get players in who will commit 100% as they are getting reemed with the piss poor attitude of the current 22.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Why would the players play for Roos??? Ex Fitzroy, won a premiership with propped up Swans, media player.

Because he was a champion player and has proven ability as a premiership coach. Doesn't seem like Melbourne has had either of those things in their coaches, let alone both, much in the past 30 years.

People say that Melbourne needs time. That was five years ago. They've had time. They are in serious strife if this is allowed to continue for much longer. They need improvement from 'uncompetitive' to 'competitive' in the next 2-3 weeks, or Neeld will be gone. And they need to be able to make a Port-esque turnaround (I'm well aware that Port has only beaten Melbourne and GWS so far this year, but they look to be a cut above those sides now, when last year they were in the same category) next year.

The Dees look to be absolute certainties to get the #1 pick at this stage and there are plenty of strong inside mids this year to help them. Hogan will be on board by then. Toumpas will hopefully be light years ahead of what he is producing now. They'll have a very early pick in the rookie and preseason drafts to target some state leaguers and discarded AFL players who can help them (the priority being on players with a suicidal attack on the ball and maybe a Maric/Jacobs type bargain ruckman). They should have money to throw around during the free agency period. They already have talent. Looking at what Rivers has produced so far at Geelong, compared to what the Dees have dished up, you'd think he would have been their B&F last year by an absolute mile, but he wasn't even close. Getting rid of 8-10 players who are taking the club absolutely nowhere is the start, but then they have to ace the same number of recruits in the drafts/trades/free agency. That's all it should take to see drastic improvement in 12 months time. Right now, this year is already about just finding the players that are worth keeping.

 

[Reykjavik]

Ctrl - Alt - Delete?

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Pot. Kettle. Two finals appearances in 30 years...

Although we have been SHIT we have at least shown a steady improvement since Dimma was appointed, which has included a shift in culture at the club.

The Tigers also have a huge supporter base (currently over 50,000 members), with equally huge attendances at games.

TBH I haven't see any fundamental changes at the Demons which would give members hope since Garry Lyon anointed Neeld as coach.

(It's my opinion that Lyon should be banned from giving advice to your club and to stick to "comedy" on footy shows, and let the running of multi-million dollar football organisations to experienced professionals with integrity who know what they are doing)

The league needs to keep clubs with a rich history such as the Demons intact, and I'd hate to see a relocation or merger due to an dysfunctional board.

The other thing that was clear to me last night is that the team is no longer playing for the jumper, or the coach.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Gameday just showed a graphic.

The Dees are 4-20 under Neeld with an average losing margin of 57 points.

 

[TheKanga]

Gameday just showed a graphic.

The Dees are 4-20 under Neeld with an average losing margin of 57 points.

Melbourne are lucky they are alright financially, otherwise their future could be in danger.
I'm glad North have never bottomed out to the extent the Dee's have.
Week after week of 50+ losses must take it's toll on the supporters.

 

[pazza]

Of course the coach can control that. In fact its the numebr one thing he can control.

The coach isn't the one out there not manning up, not tackling, not putting pressure on his direct opponent.

The coach isn't the one out there not giving a crap about trying to win. The playing group is not playing for Neeld and it should be.

There is one problem with Neeld and that is he is loathe to make tough decisions on players - or is he being held back by the club hierachy in playing blokes like Watts etc even though most of them aren't worthy of selection. That's a question the club itself needs to answer.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Sacking Neeld is the first step. They need a coach who realises playing with 5 KPPs in defense isnt a smart idea. That playing with James Sellar is not a smart idea. Neeld is literally the worst coach I can remember ever seeing at AFL level. His archaic game style has no place in todays game. He is 10 years too late.

The answer for this season obviously isnt a cleanout. Its Round 2. For this year they need a structure change.Next weeks team should be

FB: J.McDonald Frawley Bail
HB: Grimes T.McDonald Blease
C: Howe Sylvia N.Jones
HF: Davey Clark Garland
FF: Byrnes Pedersen Rodan
R: Spencer Viney Trengrove
I/C: Jetta, Watts, M. Jones SUB: McKenzie

They need to put some pace back into that backline. Blease + Grimes are needed to both run and give some cleaner disposal. They need a true lockdown small defender. Bail is there best option on there list atm. They also need someone who isnt Jack Watts to take kick ins. They need James Frawley to return to his best role as the number 1 FB and never play Tom Gillies again. In the midfield Sylvia needs to play in the guts 24/7. Forget this forward thing. Play him where he is needed. Move Nathan Jones to a wing. He is the only player they have with a big enough tank to play that role for them sadly enough. Move Howe to a wing. His marking would be a good outlet for the defense. Mitch Clark has to play as a lead up CHF. He needs to make more contests. Contests he wont make when he is at FF. Forward line needs to be filled with speedy players. Flood back and then hit them with pace on the counter. Jamar needs to go too and someone with more aggression is needed. Spencer is horrible but atleast he gives a honest effort. Watts needs to be moved from the backline and trialled as a midfielder IMO too

Worst coach in the last 10 years? Same thing was said about Matthew Primus, and Matthew Knights before that. How can we be sure it's the coach and not the players??

Mark Neeld was a highly respected assistant under malthouse who malthouse deferred to a lot.

I don;t believe it's the coach, I believe it's the list. Look at Richmond, it's taken Hardwick 4 years to re-shape the disfunctional list to get something that is finally looking competitive. Whilst some of the recruitments in recent times have been questionable, barring Dawes and Clark they've paid SFA for them.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The coach isn't the one out there not manning up, not tackling, not putting pressure on his direct opponent.

The coach isn't the one out there not giving a crap about trying to win. The playing group is not playing for Neeld and it should be.

It's the coach's job to motivate them. If the players couldn't do those fundamental things, they wouldn't be on an AFL list, even Melbourne's. It's possibly the first sign that the coach has lost the players and it's why, if those things don't change, Neeld will be gone before May.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Pot. Kettle. Two finals appearances in 30 years...

They can't begin to imagine that world of pain then.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Sacking Neeld is the first step. They need a coach who realises playing with 5 KPPs in defense isnt a smart idea. That playing with James Sellar is not a smart idea. Neeld is literally the worst coach I can remember ever seeing at AFL level. His archaic game style has no place in todays game. He is 10 years too late.

The answer for this season obviously isnt a cleanout. Its Round 2. For this year they need a structure change.Next weeks team should be

FB: J.McDonald Frawley Bail
HB: Grimes T.McDonald Blease
C: Howe Sylvia N.Jones
HF: Davey Clark Garland
FF: Byrnes Pedersen Rodan
R: Spencer Viney Trengrove
I/C: Jetta, Watts, M. Jones SUB: McKenzie

They need to put some pace back into that backline. Blease + Grimes are needed to both run and give some cleaner disposal. They need a true lockdown small defender. Bail is there best option on there list atm. They also need someone who isnt Jack Watts to take kick ins. They need James Frawley to return to his best role as the number 1 FB and never play Tom Gillies again. In the midfield Sylvia needs to play in the guts 24/7. Forget this forward thing. Play him where he is needed. Move Nathan Jones to a wing. He is the only player they have with a big enough tank to play that role for them sadly enough. Move Howe to a wing. His marking would be a good outlet for the defense. Mitch Clark has to play as a lead up CHF. He needs to make more contests. Contests he wont make when he is at FF. Forward line needs to be filled with speedy players. Flood back and then hit them with pace on the counter. Jamar needs to go too and someone with more aggression is needed. Spencer is horrible but atleast he gives a honest effort. Watts needs to be moved from the backline and trialled as a midfielder IMO too

To be honest watching last nights game there are only 3 players any club would consider recruiting from Melbourne . Jones , Howe and Viney , the only 3 who have anything which resembles a spine when the chips are down. Sylvia is a absolute joke, reckon I seen he had less supercoach points than Watts , when in fact he should have been one of the ones showing the way when the chips where down.
Whilst it is common thought that Clark going to Melbourne was on the back of being guaranteed he would be played at FF.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The playing group is not playing for Neeld and it should be.

Then the coach isnt doing his job.

 

[Coledinho]

Lets compare Ports mature aged rebuild too Melbournes

Port Adelaide mature aged recruits :

Brent Renouf (2nd rounder)
Brad Ebert (2nd rounder)
Lewis Stevenson (4th round)
Campbell Heath (5th round)
Angus Monfries (3rd rounder)
Darren Pfeiffer (rookie pick)
Jack Hombsch + Jake Neade (2nd rounder)

Melbourne

Mitch Clark (1 first rounder)
Chris Dawes (1 first rounder)
Shannon Byrnes (FA)
David Rodan (FA)
Cam Pedersen (Gysberts)
Tom Gillies (FA)
Joel McDonald (PSD)
James Sellar (rookie)

Port Adelaide took mature aged recruits who had shown alot in the reserves but were not given the chances. Theres a chance they could be top AFL players. Melbourne took mature aged recruits who had been given many chances. Proved they were finished (Rodan, Byrnes) or simply not up to it (Sellar, Pedersen, Gillies). Port took none of those stupid picks. They spent little to get a group of young players aching for a chance. Melbourne spent plenty on a bunch of not good enough players looking for a last pay cheque and players who are so far from AFL level its bewildering they got another go at it

 

[Zgope1]

I reckon they need to delist all of their developing young players apart from the really good ones which is their call, then they need to pack their list with the best that the vfl, wafl and sanfl have to offer and obviously keep players like Jones, Clark etc.
Provided every one they bring in has a good attitude, they should get competitive fast and that should change the culture dramatically.

 

[pazza]

If Melbourne is to follow the old Richmond route and sack the coach mercilessly, even though he would be only partly to blame, they must take a coach on who is prepared to develop the youth whilst making the tough decisions the club clearly needs to take with it's list.

There's one VFL coach who would be updating his resume currently.

 

[theflea]

Melbourne are lucky they are alright financially, otherwise their future could be in danger.
I'm glad North have never bottomed out to the extent the Dee's have.
Week after week of 50+ losses must take it's toll on the supporters.

This is the exact reason why the afl did not find them guilty of tanking. They would have potentially lost the bentleigh club (via deregistration from regulatory bodies).

 

[theflea]

The coach isn't the one out there not manning up, not tackling, not putting pressure on his direct opponent.

The coach isn't the one out there not giving a crap about trying to win. The playing group is not playing for Neeld and it should be.

There is one problem with Neeld and that is he is loathe to make tough decisions on players - or is he being held back by the club hierachy in playing blokes like Watts etc even though most of them aren't worthy of selection. That's a question the club itself needs to answer.

Whether Neeld is going to be a scapegoat or not, it will be just another out for the players.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

To be honest watching last nights game there are only 3 players any club would consider recruiting from Melbourne . Jones , Howe and Viney , the only 3 who have anything which resembles a spine when the chips are down.

I disagree. Look at Rivers last year. Really just a solid player for the Dees last year, didn't look like a world-beater or anything. Put him in the right system and he fits like a glove. That's what opposition teams would see in players like Frawley, Clark, Tom McDonald, Blease, Pedersen, Garland, McKenzie and maybe even Trengove. All of those players (and several others in the lineup) have shown that they can play in the AFL. That's where I could potentially see this going: contenders just hovering over Melbourne like vultures, ready to snatch their valuable players. If that happens, they'll be like an expansion team without the compromised drafts. Currently, they look better on paper than what they are producing on the park.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

For me, to fix melbourne, I would start like this:

Firstly, I would be talking to Paul Roos and Tom Harley to come in and look over the club and provide an independant view of the culture and overall structure of the club, and ways they can implement a successul culture into the club.

Secondly, I would put consistantly under-performing players like Jamar, Sylvia and Watts down to Casey and not bring them back till they are dominating at that level, as a quality AFL player should. They should have a set criteria that they have to hit, including 1%ers, tackles, sacrificial acts etc. Every week they don't hit their benchmarks, they stay a further 2 games in the twos. If this stretches to next season, then so be it. If they don't get anywhere near those levels, then they play in the casey twos until they hit the benchmarks. This isn't just limited to the above 3, but any senior player.

Thirdly, scrap the process's of footy and make every player accountable for a player on match day for the next 3 weeks. If that player goes to the bench, so do you, if that player switches into the middle, then so do you. You have one player to manage, you have to beat said opponent.

Fourthly, I would ban all past players from coming into the rooms, from being a part of the group. Too many mixed messages.

Fifthly, I would ignore any advice from the sports scientists, and start 6:30am 'Tom Hafey training' every day barring Saturday and Sunday. These players have got to hurt and hurt and hurt. Any time someone is late, then they lust start 15 minutes earlier the next day and every day there on.

Lastly, I would also make every player get a job, that they must keep all season, and must donate all salaries earnt to charity. And not some glorified office job with a sponsor. I mean waiting, or a trade or something like that. They have to be shown what their lives could be like if they don't do what they should be on the footy field. Show them that they really have life pretty good as an AFL footballer.

End of the year, all major positions, like President, football manager, CEO etc must reapply for their positions to ensure you have the best people in the roles

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

I disagree. Look at Rivers last year. Really just a solid player for the Dees last year, didn't look like a world-beater or anything. Put him in the right system and he fits like a glove. That's what opposition teams would see in players like Frawley, Clark, Tom McDonald, Blease, Pedersen, Garland, McKenzie and maybe even Trengove. All of those players (and several others in the lineup) have shown that they can play in the AFL. That's where I could potentially see this going: contenders just hovering over Melbourne like vultures, ready to snatch their valuable players. If that happens, they'll be like an expansion team without the compromised drafts. Currently, they look better on paper than what they are producing on the park.

Ii would take Blease at Hawthorn for sure. Quick outside player who uses it pretty well and has shown an aability to kick goals. Would fit in nicely. 100% agree with what you are saying

 

[theflea]

If Melbourne is to follow the old Richmond route and sack the coach mercilessly, even though he would be only partly to blame, they must take a coach on who is prepared to develop the youth whilst making the tough decisions the club clearly needs to take with it's list.

There's one VFL coach who would be updating his resume currently.

To be fair it wasnt just a 'richmond' thing.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Ii would take Blease at Hawthorn for sure. Quick outside player who uses it pretty well and has shown an aability to kick goals. Would fit in nicely. 100% agree with what you are saying

The thread is how to fix Melbourne, not how to feast off their carcass.

 

[Richo83]

Get rid of Watts. Seriously. Tambling was a millstone around Richmond's neck. Watts is a millstone around Melbourne's neck.

The problem with Watts is that if he's picked, if he has a bad game, the vultures circle and people start to wonder whether he's being picked on form. Other players start to question on what standard are players picked. And if he's not picked, the team starts to wonder if they've wasted efforts on him and they're making a mistake not playing him. He only creates uncertainty. So there's so much pressure on Watts to perform, not only on Watts, but on Neeld as well, given he's desperately hoping that he comes good. This kind of pressure only screws clubs over. It's not fair on Neeld, and it's not fair on Watts, who has the weight of the world on his shoulders. For the good of Melbourne and Watts, they need to part. This is not a troll, it's the same problem that Richmond had with Tambling and it's only going to get worse for a player who is shot for confidence.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

TAmbling wasnt Richmonds problem and Watts isnt Melbournes problem. Not internally anyway, who cares about outside perceptions. Getting rid of Watts is the easy option but wont fix anything.