Universal Love Princes Park Update

[The_Wookie]

The Legends Stand was filled plenty of times fir big games in the late 90s / early 00s. Don't know why people go on about it being hated.
Plus it was the AFL who screwed us over with Princes Park. Told us to go ahead and develop the ground as they planned to use it as a boutique stadium, but when all permits and contracts had been signed and development started, pulled out and chose to go with the Docklands Stadium idea.

Elliot told 4 corners that it was car parking that was a big deal. Kennet evidently promised an underground car park if he won an election, and he lost.

You've put a lot of development into this fabulous Optus Oval, but you're playing only four games here, is that crowd chasing to go to Colonial?

No it's straight economics, we find we've got a parking problem here if we get more than about 25 or 26,000 had we had Mr Kennett, had he won government, he was going to put an underground carpark into Princess Park, had we got that we could've stayed so we are horses for courses, blockbusters at the MCG, playing other Melbourne Clubs where we should get 35,000 or better at Colonial, interstate clubs will play here. Now other clubs want to adopt that as well so although Carlton's only playing four games at Optus this year, there's another six games played by other clubs so we're going from 9 games last year to 10 this year so this is an important ground because we break even at 15,000 people, MCG probably 25, 30 on a Sunday.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/s526227.htm

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Daniel Andrews (in his infinite wisdom or folly, i've yet to decide) has decided to put in more underground stations under the city loop/swanston st.

Maybe the club should lobby hard to have the government to extend the underground rail loop to Melbourne University, and by extension, further up to Carlton/Princes' Park.

That's about the only way a return to PP/Ikon is feasible, unless there is a much improved public transport infrastructure up there, i doubt the AFL would green light a return there.

 

[thylacine60]

makes me laugh - trams every few minutes pouring supporters onto royal parade - just like they have for a hundred years beforehand

 

[Iamcarlton]

I would think carlton of the future say in 20 years and beyond will be budgeting and expecting a minimum crowd number of atleast 30 -35 thousand crowd for interstate games GC GWS and higher for your adelaides and sydneys . With a membership of atleast 70 thousand within 5 years unless the ground was built to atleast a 45000 seat stadium it would be throwing money away as the ground would not be servicing the demand . All stands except the legends stand id expect would have to be bulldozed and start again . A massive undertaking financially and this project in a northern suburb of melbourne yes not far from the city completely ignores the biggest growth corridor of melbourne the outer south east in which not too many would travel that far .

 

[slashin_velvet]

Maybe the club should lobby hard to have the government to extend the underground rail loop to Melbourne University, and by extension, further up to Carlton/Princes' Park.

If you check the plans, there's already a Parkville station in the works, but it's going to be as far if not further than the zoo station is from the ground.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Actually you dont. You actually gain money, because our total ground rental at princes park per year is less than a hundred thousand dollars. And we arent talking playing every game there, big games will still go to the G, and we'll still play games at Etihad. We're talking about the games against Port, GWS, Gold Coast and Fremantle that we could easily accommodate at Princes Park. 4 games a year - the same amount that Hawthorn play at York Park - and the club makes all the money from the game.



Attendance isnt everything in stadium economics. Clubs at the MCG recieve less than 40% of revenue from games, and Etihad is even lower. At Princes Park the Blues would receive more than 90%. York Park for instance has a capacity of less than 18,000 while the Hawks play the remaining games at the MCG - they took home 4.3 million in match returns last year - more than double what Carlton did.

So in future you would rather lock people out of a smaller stadium so as to receive a higher percentage of gate takings revenue ? . I would have thought building memberships in a bigger stadium is more sensible than worrying about a percentage of gate takings for 4 games a year wouldnt you? Carltons membership in even 5 years i would hope would be 70 k + . Ive gotta say your living in the dark ages move forward with the times our old ground is dead and buried to the AFL .

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

O

The Legends Stand was filled plenty of times fir big games in the late 90s / early 00s. Don't know wh. people go on about it being hated.
Plus it was the AFL who screwed us over with Princes Park. Told us to go ahead and develop the ground as they planned to use it as a boutique stadium, but when all permits and contracts had been signed and development started, pulled out and chose to go with the Docklands Stadium idea.

Problems with the legends stand.
1. Overpriced tickets. Proberly why it
was never full
2. Sitting there on a sunny day . The sun blares right across you behind the goals.
3. Cost. Cost us a lot of money to build and left us in debt.
4. Wrong design. Looks like an elephant with its odly shaped roof.
Simply the wrong stand to build at the time. Should of kicked down the Gardiner stand and built there.

 

[HBF]

Would love to go back to PP, but I just can't see it happening. Unless we got a huge amount of funding from both the state government and the AFL we'll never see footy back there.

 

[thylacine60]

Simply the wrong stand to build at the time. Should of kicked down the Gardiner stand and built there.

But I sat there?

 

[Azul]

More likely to be knocked down and redeveloped as a boutique venue for the 2030 FIFA World Cup and subsequent 2036 Olympics.

Playing base for Melbourne City and funded by their UAE Sheik owner. With their deal at La Trobe Uni they'd be keen to capture the northern suburbs and leave Victory as AAMI park tenant.

 

[Navara79]

O

Problems with the legends stand.
1. Overpriced tickets. Proberly why it
was never full
2. Sitting there on a sunny day . The sun blares right across you behind the goals.
3. Cost. Cost us a lot of money to build and left us in debt.
4. Wrong design. Looks like an elephant with its odly shaped roof.
Simply the wrong stand to build at the time. Should of kicked down the Gardiner stand and built there.

Ever sat at the Punt road end of the MCG on a sunny day?
Ever sat at the Coventry end of Etihad Stadium when the roof has been open on a sunny day?

 

[BluesRule]

Ever sat at the Punt road end of the MCG on a sunny day?
Ever sat at the Coventry end of Etihad Stadium when the roof has been open on a sunny day?

1. Bring sun glasses and a hat.
2. Enjoy the warmth.
3. Get a tan.

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

Ever sat at the Punt road end of the MCG on a sunny day?
Ever sat at the Coventry end of Etihad Stadium when the roof has been open on a sunny day?

I get your point, all I am trying to say is that the stand should not have been built the way it is

 

[Azul]

From that foto, the cheap seats near the fence are in the sun. If you want shade you pay us big bucks for a reserved seat miles from the action.

Any wonder opposition fans hated the joint?

 

[Dramoth]

Look I know my first comment may have seamed a bit arrogant, but if we are going to be successful it all starts from your clubs culture. This ground has been our home for since the 1900's, we are one of the only Victorian clubs to still train on our ground and it holds about 25 000, a few upgrades round the back would made it doable. Agreed about the tassie grounds and TIO holding less than Ikon Park.
By the way I am 15

I get what you're saying, but the cats train at Kardinia Park, North still trains at Arden St, the Doggies at the Western Oval and Bitchmond at Punt Road... the only difference is that out of the Melboune based clubs still at their original grounds, ours is the closest to being upto AFL standard.

If I was the club, I would get planning permission to start developing oval 2... which falls under our lease. Build grand stands at either end that'll hold upto 10k people each and terraces on one wing and a bank on the other. Limit the terraces to 15k max and the banks to 10k... Bam... you have a suburban ground with a capacity of 45k. If you want corporate boxes, put them at the top of the terraces.

And, the best thing about oval 2... it's just far enough away from the housing that they can't complain any flood lights we put in.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The Legends stand is the number one reason the Carlton Football Club is in the position it is in now.

Massive debt building a stand no-one used or liked, with no corporate facilities, staring straight into the sun all afternoon. Was the straw that broke the AFL back in terms of club support.

That stand set us back decades. It has been an albatross around the neck of the club since it was planned.

To add insult to injury building it changed the dimensions of the ground from a short ground where we had a massive home ground advantage to an MCG-ish length ground where we completely lost one of the most unique aspects of the ground.

If Collo had not have sold us out and made us sign the ridiculous deal at Ethiad, we would be playing 5 home games at Princes Park, The Bulldogs & north would lease it from us to play interstate games and we would be the richest club in the country..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

It was John Elliott's legacy which led to us abandoning Princes Park as a playing venue.

With the club on the verge of handing back the keys, the financial incentive offered by the AFL to move our home games to Etihad was a guarantee ensuring the financial survival of our club.

That is complete BS.. Do you honestly believe that the club was ever not going to survive.. WE are Carlton FFS..

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

I get what you're saying, but the cats train at Kardinia Park, North still trains at Arden St, the Doggies at the Western Oval and Bitchmond (nice) at Punt Road... the only difference is that out of the Melboune based clubs still at their original grounds, ours is the closest to being upto AFL standard.

If I was the club, I would get planning permission to start developing oval 2... which falls under our lease. Build grand stands at either end that'll hold upto 10k people each and terraces on one wing and a bank on the other. Limit the terraces to 15k max and the banks to 10k... Bam... you have a suburban ground with a capacity of 45k. If you want corporate boxes, put them at the top of the terraces.

And, the best thing about oval 2... it's just far enough away from the housing that they can't complain any flood lights we put in.

Would you agree that new grandstand would need to be built at the Heatley end?. Looking at the Carlton cheer squad in the Legends stand in the preseason match was disappointing, plus didn't we sign an agreement in 1994 to play 8 games at the ground until 2020 or 2025, did Collo just rip that up as well?

 

[FootyGeek]

If Collo had not have sold us out and made us sign the ridiculous deal at Ethiad, we would be playing 5 home games at Princes Park, The Bulldogs & north would lease it from us to play interstate games and we would be the richest club in the country..

The AFL controls the fixture and our deal with them at Princes Park ran out and they were never going to extend it.

Ian Collins saved the club from going under. He cops a lot of unfair crap online from Elliot apologists who have as much idea about running a footy club as Elliot did.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

The AFL controls the fixture and our deal with them at Princes Park ran out and they were never going to extend it.

Ian Collins saved the club from going under. He cops a lot of unfair crap online from Elliot apologists who have as much idea about running a footy club as Elliot did.

Wasn't Elliot instrumental in the recruitment of Kernahan, Bradley, Motley, Naley et al? Not saying he was without fault, but he did oversee a fairly successful era.

Collins bent the club over, he was rewarded handsomely for getting another strong Melbourne club over to the stadium he was in charge of. Used the club to benefit himself when it was on it's knees.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

The Legends stand is the number one reason the Carlton Football Club is in the position it is in now.

Massive debt building a stand no-one used or liked, with no corporate facilities, staring straight into the sun all afternoon. Was the straw that broke the AFL back in terms of club support.

That stand set us back decades. It has been an albatross around the neck of the club since it was planned.

To add insult to injury building it changed the dimensions of the ground from a short ground where we had a massive home ground advantage to an MCG-ish length ground where we completely lost one of the most unique aspects of the ground.

The stand set us back decades. What rubbish.

 

[Dramoth]

Would you agree that new grandstand would need to be built at the Heatley end?. Looking at the Carlton cheer squad in the Legends stand in the preseason match was disappointing, plus didn't we sign an agreement in 1994 to play 8 games at the ground until 2020 or 2025, did Collo just rip that up as well?

We would be building a whole new stadium around the oval closer to the city. If you are facing the current ground from Royal Parade, it's off to the right... on the other side of the Walker St and Royal Parade intersecion. There is what appears to be a cricket club house there and the Princes Hill Tennis Club on Princes Park Drive... which could cause us a few hiccups (see the bowls club that got Essendon kicked out of Windy Hill).

Princes Park Map

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

From what I know. John Elliott was sacked as President at the end of 2002 and was blamed for us finishing last for the first time. Then Ian Collins takes over and it is then all the salary cap problems came up. If Elliott had still been President he would of taken it to court and won, but Collins didn't have enough guts to do that. I funny that this all came up when we were most vulnerable after we won the spoon and Collins was working with the AFL. His plan all along was to take over the club make us loose lots of money so we would have no choose but to move to etihad.

 

[P_Crippy]

Not how i remember it at all.

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

Not how i remember it at all.

What do you mean?