Actually melb is in a good position, gawn and preus two time combo. Serious threat they covered all their holes this yesr
Prediction Is it a weakness to rely on your Ruckman being in your top 3?
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Minor injury to Grigg is a great chance for a fresh player to step up. Balta, Moore JCD all talls that I’d love to see get games
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Don't think Gawn is that good. Lucky he's tall. Grundy is quite a bit better.
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Balta looks a fair bit more ready than Coleman Jones. He attacks marking contests with more power and charges down the field with the ball with confidence.
Cdog71
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That’s sort’ve getting to what I was on about and this might be a little left field
With Gawn and Grundy both of em (i think spiritual leader is a bit over the top) but both of em are almost measuring sticks for how well their team is playing and when the oppo attacked them in the finals to diminish them it affected the whole team mojo I reckon.
I reckon the tiger players got a kick outve seeing the Grigg experiment work
when it did.
The Balta idea could really inject some enthusiasm and energy and that’s something he could bring that doesn’t require a three year apprenticeship to get good at.
With Gawn and Grundy both of em (i think spiritual leader is a bit over the top) but both of em are almost measuring sticks for how well their team is playing and when the oppo attacked them in the finals to diminish them it affected the whole team mojo I reckon.
I reckon the tiger players got a kick outve seeing the Grigg experiment work
when it did.
The Balta idea could really inject some enthusiasm and energy and that’s something he could bring that doesn’t require a three year apprenticeship to get good at.
Collingwood and melbourne Grundy and Gawn sheesh do they rely on these players. Both teams were 1 and 2 for clearances and contested ball they have midfielders who win these positions ruckman or no ruckman.It would probably be a tougher task but to say they rely on these players is grasping at straws imo.
With Gawn and Grundy there it just makes it that much harder to win in these areas against them id give my right arm to have a ruckman of their calibre at our club.
With Gawn and Grundy there it just makes it that much harder to win in these areas against them id give my right arm to have a ruckman of their calibre at our club.
telsor
Hall of Famer
Balta might look better, but CCJ gets better results.
Very happy with the way both these boys are coming along and the tigers are developing them brilliantly
CCJ is a very good foward and hopefully becomes a brilliant Ruckman and could become that 2nd ruck that we are looking for that can also kick goals when not rucking.
Who knows we may just end up playing the 3 tall foward line with Lynch,Riewoldt & CCj
and Have Balta playing off the wing
Now wouldnt that put the Cat amongst the pigeons with the new afl rules
telsor
Hall of Famer
In a few years I can see us playing CCJ/Balta as our ruck/forward duo. (with the resting player partnering up with Lynch up forward).
The new rules mean you need a good tap ruck, and as good as Nank is around the ground and as a physical presence, we just wont be able to afford losing the ruck contests nearly as much as we can now.
This year, I can see Soldo getting a lot more time in the firsts due to this...They'll try Nank up forward as a 3rd tall/2nd ruck (which is actually the role we originally recruited him for IIRC), but honestly, I'm not seeing 3 tall forwards working for us without a radical change in game plan (and they're not going to want to majorly change a premiership winning game plan without trying everything to make it work), so by the end of the year Lynch and Jack will be forced to provide the ruck chop out between them, with the first ruck being more a week by week prospect and selected based on form and opposition.
Another option would be to play Jack nominally at CHF, but use him pretty much as an extra mid, leaving Tom/Nank as the 2 tall forwards (and also not the stay at home kind).
Tiger_Of_Old
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I sorta like the idea of giving away a free at the centre bounce(using Grigga) to allow us to setup like we have in the backline against the likes of Gawn & Grundy.
Grigga on purpose runs over the centre line to interfere with Gawn/Grundy and actually tackles them so the ball spills and no advantage which gives us time to send our wingers to the backline.
Keeps our change of team balance with Lynch not to much of an issue.
I think Nankervis is really under rated. Not saying he is as good as these two, but he not far behind. I think Grundy's tires get pumped a bit due to his midfield abilities. Of course he is a good tap ruck as well, but their duels have been far more even than often the commentators call. They always call a tap out Grundy's way when it is 50/50, just like they do with a lot of players, Cyril, Rance, Pendelbury, they tend to overstate the normal things they do.
Grundy was well beaten by West Coast rucks in the GF after half time.
Against Collingwood in r.6 Nankervis had 29 possessions, and was named out 6th best. I thought he was easily BOG behind Cotchin who was brilliant. Grundy did go off injured in the last granted.
R.19 Grundy had 23 possession to Nankervis 18. But Grundy has 18 handpasses, ie linking play, against Nankervis 5. Nank had 13 kicks to 5. I think kicks are more important, especially when Nankervis took 6 marks, many good strong pack marks. Grundy took a couple, but almost never takes pack marks. And Nankervis was very good again in the last Q.
The problem is Nank has no back up. This year will change that. I would guarantee if Soldo was to play against Grundy, the tap outs would be fairly even, (but Grundy would kill him at ground level). Soldo is easily the best tap ruckman in the VFL, and with a solid preseason will be even better given his age and experience. Balta or CCJ could come in when Cox rucks and we would not be disadvantaged.
It will be a really interesting year for the ruck division. One which that gaping hole of no second ruck I think will be addressed.
Tiger_Of_Old
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Sort of a risk at his age but what about throwing Jack in the ruck and Nank up Fwd for a rest.
Jack is smart enough too know his limitations but be effective enough to halve a contest in the middle but more importantly be of a huge concern around the ground because of his smarts.
Jack is smart enough too know his limitations but be effective enough to halve a contest in the middle but more importantly be of a huge concern around the ground because of his smarts.
Jeez that sounds like a good ploy..
But I'm of the opinion now, given JRs age, we need to maximize his longevity with smart management...
Avoid the physical argy bargies...(save it for the GF!)
Love to squeeze another burgoynian 5 years out of him...
Tiger_Of_Old
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Yeah i tend too agree.His age and longevity sorta puts that to bed.Jeez that sounds like a good ploy..
But I'm of the opinion now, given JRs age, we need to maximize his longevity with smart management...
Avoid the physical argy bargies...(save it for the GF!)
Love to squeeze another burgoynian 5 years out of him...
Cdog71
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We’re really lucky to have Nank, he played all of 12 games for sydney over two years and 40 odd games for us.
If you look at Grundy’s stats as a third year player there’s not alot of difference.
I think Melbourne relied on Gawn heaps for intercept marks with Lever out last year and even though they picked up Preus it’s not for certain they’ll play two Ruckman.
We got thumped by West coast over there and their gamestyle is polar opposite to ours with them trying to dominate the air but I hope we don’t ditch our pressure game for another traditional Ruck no one can handle it when we redline that pressure.
If you look at Grundy’s stats as a third year player there’s not alot of difference.
I think Melbourne relied on Gawn heaps for intercept marks with Lever out last year and even though they picked up Preus it’s not for certain they’ll play two Ruckman.
We got thumped by West coast over there and their gamestyle is polar opposite to ours with them trying to dominate the air but I hope we don’t ditch our pressure game for another traditional Ruck no one can handle it when we redline that pressure.
Dr Tigris
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Couldn't say it better. We have a guy that is mature, big, and ready to play AFL. In a couple of years he will be passed by CCJ. But right now play him. He's apparently OKish resting forward. So play Tom leading up and Jack can go wherever he wants. We effectively retain 2 tall forwards and gain a brilliant tall mid (Jack). Nank plays the other ruck and rests forward if needed.
The problem is that if we need to deal with ruck contents when Nank is resting, then we actually need a proper ruck. And so we have to set up for that.
Yeah the beauty of JR is his versatility...tall mid, half forward, CHF, FF...Just a difficult match up for the oppo, which means we have options in playing tall forwards...
Only concern is JR doesn't get bashed and crashed into retirement at his age from the oppo...
Love to see JR pinch 5 more years of playing...
Dr Tigris
Brownlow Medallist
Yep. If we play Tom and 2 rucks then I reckon that's too many talls really. But if we play Soldo and Nank in a way that allows us to use Jack as a roaming player then we might come out ahead.
If you were a tall defender and faced Tom Lynch and Nank resting forward, and Jack roaming you'd have to man Nank and Tom. Then Jack just turns up where you don't want him. I am not sure that there is any other KPF that has Jack's versatility. So we might just be able to play too many talls and use Jack to play KPF when needed, and then roaming tall/mid. I'm not sure that we would get best value out of that set up.
But if the ruck thing is for real and we have to have a genuine tap ruck, then we should totally alter our tall set up. Play Soldo as the big main tap ruck, Nankervis as 2nd ruck, ruck rover and resting forward. Have Soldo run him self ragged and smash bodies (65% game time first ruck) Nank does the rest of the rucking and we don't lose with him pinch hitting. Jack makes sure that it all works. Not awesome, but maybe workable
We won't be playing two rucks, it will be Nank and a pinch hitter as usual. If we sacrifice a mid for a back up ruck who will do no more than 20% of the rucking i'll blow up. You don't change your whole set up because of one damn game.
Cdog71
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I’m all for giving things a go
2017 it was about July we started really consolidating the pressure game and the “Grigg” game
2018 that was when it looked like we started to try and pace ourselves and it looked like we weren’t ever really redlining in top gear.
It’ll be interesting to see what bubbles up outve the FD think tank but whatever it is I doubt they’ll cement it in before August.
One thing I’m convinced on is we will need to kick 17 goals at least to beat WC and Demons.
Pretty sure they can kick 15/16 when they’re on
2017 it was about July we started really consolidating the pressure game and the “Grigg” game
2018 that was when it looked like we started to try and pace ourselves and it looked like we weren’t ever really redlining in top gear.
It’ll be interesting to see what bubbles up outve the FD think tank but whatever it is I doubt they’ll cement it in before August.
One thing I’m convinced on is we will need to kick 17 goals at least to beat WC and Demons.
Pretty sure they can kick 15/16 when they’re on
Dr Tigris
Brownlow Medallist
It'll be interesting. The club is saying repeatedly that they are looking at 2 rucks. But they also cover themselves by saying they'll see how it all goes. I reckon playing Soldo or CCJ is likely to make us give up a lot in terms of midfield run and pressure. It's that balance, will a good tap ruck cause us more problems than us losing some midfield depth and flexibility?
telsor
Hall of Famer
It's not over one game.
It's mostly due to the rules changes, that make a winning (or at least competitive) ruck a MUCH bigger deal this year.
Playing a pinch hitter who isn't at least a decent ruckman will cost goals. It becomes a question of which will cost more...playing one ruck or playing one less mid?
There is no rule change, the ruck has been grabbing the ball out of the ruck without penalty for the last two years, all they have done is make it official.
Also we outscored the opposition with the pinch hitter.
telsor
Hall of Famer
Having it official will make it more frequent and pushed further. We won with a pinch hitter by having players behind the ball...doesn't work so well with 666.
So 2 rule changes, both of which significantly increase the importance of the ruck.
6-6-6 is not for around the ground and by the way every team had numbers behind the ball at centre bounces, and no it won't make it more frequent because when the ruck grabs it he still has to dispose of it, a tap still is the best way of hitting a teammate.
People are over thinking this, nothing is going to change. It's still 4 v 4 in the middle and more often than not the ball goes to ground ruck or pinch hitter.
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