Scandal Jack Ziebell coward punched

[Bjo187]

* me, i couldn't believe the slap on the wrist this scumbag got. Hopefully a pissed off north fan tracks him down.

 

[leon123]

Rehabilitation is just ONE purpose of prison.

It is also to provide JUSTICE for the victim, DETER other potential criminals and PROTECT society from a thug who bashes strangers.

The judge has completely failed to provide justice, completely failed to deter other criminals, or protect society from a clearly violent thug.

Fines are the dumbest punishment ever, if he's rich it's literally no punishment at all.

You know kappa, i rarely agree with you, this one i will.

Fines work well for so called crimes that dont directly hurt people, this was senseless violence. Over my life ive seen people killed and permantley disabled over acts like this.

Im not sure about rehabilitation, but a fine, not good enough

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Yeah just let degenerates, scumbags, junkies and idiotic tik tok pranksters get away with all their senseless violence and bullshit. Too many excuses made for these type of *******s nowdays. * them.

I think you missed the point.

Firstly, $25k isn't 'getting away with it'. That's a decent whack.

Secondly, the desire for punishment is surely outweighed by the net benefit to society?

If jailing a 21yo will make him a better person who is less likely to reoffend when he gets out - then s**t yeah, send him to jail. It's not about him, it's about us. About what is best for society.
If jailing him for this, will make others less likely to do this sort of stuff - then absolutely I'd be pushing for a jail term.

But I'm just not sure that in reality it actually works like that. People that go to jail statistically come out worse. Especially young people.

From memory, I think it's about 60% of people that do a jail term, will reoffend.

It also costs about $150k per year to have someone in jail.

So spending $50k on putting someone in jail for 3 months, when they have a 60% chance of reoffending once they get out just doesn't seem that practical.


I don't know what the answer is, but I do think that throwing people in jail aisnt neccessarily the obvious and correct choice. Whilst it does provide short term satisfaction for people to see offenders cop their whack, it's not always best for society in the long run.

 

[HairyO]

But is anyone actually surprised ?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

But is anyone actually surprised ?

FWIW, I've personally known 4 people who have been charged with assault - and none went to jail.

One of them actually whacked a cop too.

So no, I'm not surprised.

 

[Kappa]

FWIW, I've personally known 4 people who have been charged with assault - and none went to jail.

One of them actually whacked a cop too.

So no, I'm not surprised.

Assault can be anything, a mild push is assault.

This is punches to the face that required surgery, bit different.

If judges are letting people punch cops without jail time they should be stood down immediately

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Assault can be anything, a mild push is assault.

This is punches to the face that required surgery, bit different.

The guys I know were charged because they bashed people. One king hit a copper.

I also saw some of my mates get bashed, and the offenders never did time.

This was going back 20-30 years.

People not being put in jail for whacking people, is not a new phenomenon. Rightly or wrongly.


I think I saw video once of Michael Voss punching someone at a pub. I don't think he was even charged. Dane Swan didn't do time.

 

[sosos]

Pretty easy to criticise a judge. I don't condone any violence, but as flawed as our legal system may be, I trust the person placed in that difficult position to make the right decision.

 

[HairyO]

The guys I know were charged because they bashed people. One king hit a copper.

I also saw some of my mates get bashed, and the offenders never did time.

This was going back 20-30 years.

People not being put in jail for whacking people, is not a new phenomenon. Rightly or wrongly.


I think I saw video once of Michael Voss punching someone at a pub. I don't think he was even charged. Dane Swan didn't do time.

Violent crimes involving us lesser folk has always been less important than crimes of theft where the victims are rich people.

 

[Devington]

Could have accepted it if there was a suspended sentence too, but with just a financial penalty it really does seem excessively weak.

 

[Anynameyouwish]

People that go to jail statistically come out worse. Especially young people.

From memory, I think it's about 60% of people that do a jail term, will reoffend.

I think you are confusing 'correlation' with 'causation'?

Where is the data of the control group? i.e. where is the data on the 'reoffending rate' on innocent people being sent to jail?

 

[Kappa]

Pretty easy to criticise a judge. I don't condone any violence, but as flawed as our legal system may be, I trust the person placed in that difficult position to make the right decision.

Blind faith in authority is an extremely silly and dangerous stance to have.

And I disagree that it's a difficult position, violent unprovoked crimes = serious punishment.

 

[yaco55]

Doubt that many 21 year olds have 25K lying around - The Australian system of fines are exorbitant , especially for minor dismeanours.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Pretty easy to criticise a judge. I don't condone any violence, but as flawed as our legal system may be, I trust the person placed in that difficult position to make the right decision. on the balance of probabilities the likely least worst decision.

EFA

 

[76woodenspooners]

Blind faith in authority is an extremely silly and dangerous stance to have.

It’s not blind faith.

We have a choice on how we want these things to roll every three years at the ballot box.

If you want to live in a community that spends more taxpayer dollars on building more prisons to lock more people up for longer periods of time (because that’s effectively what you’re advocating) then you can vote for politicians who pledge that. And you can write to your local reps to advocate that. And you can donate your $$$ to the parties / reps who pledge those policies.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Genuinely sick of you flakes banging on about rehabilitation.

Harsh. You do know what “devil’s advocate” means?

Screw your rehabilitation. This is about justice and keeping violent psychos off the street. A subhuman piece of trash like him belongs in jail. 21 years old? No excuse.

Dunno if I agree / disagree with you because I don’t know the facts of the case beyond the brief snippets we get in the media (which have been known to sensationalise things) - but on the face of it, it doesn’t look good.

But in general:

• Do I think our society is perfect? No, no society is.
• Do I think our society is pretty good? Yeah, I reckon we generally do well.
• Are there societies out there that more readily imprison more people for longer periods? Yes indeed there are.
• Do I know anything about those societies? Yes, I do, I have lived in them.
• Would I like our society to be more like that? Hell, no!

 

[NYCFC]

Physically assault someone like this, you absolutely should be in prison.
The problem is, prison should be equal parts punishment and rehabilitation.
If we run our prisons so badly they can't rehabilitate anyone, then we need to sort that out.

But this person 100% deserves to lose his freedom, not just 25k. Which I'm sure between family and friends he can cobble together.
And while he's off the streets, then yes the prison system should be set up to give him a reasonable chance at not remaining a violent piece of **** when he gets out.

Refusing to put people in prison because we've failed in our duty to provide both punishment and rehabilitation inside our prisons is pretty crazy.

Make the prisons do what they're designed to do, and then don't hesitate to put people like this guy into them.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Physically assault someone like this, you absolutely should be in prison.
The problem is, prison should be equal parts punishment and rehabilitation …

… and deterence.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Meanwhile the scum who attacked him can go home laughing…

Sure, it’s hard to empathise with somebody who bashes a random on a night out for kicks …

… but you think a first time offender who has just been through the criminal legal system, and who has been convicted and now has a criminal record would now be laughing?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Physically assault someone like this, you absolutely should be in prison.
The problem is, prison should be equal parts punishment and rehabilitation.
If we run our prisons so badly they can't rehabilitate anyone, then we need to sort that out.

But this person 100% deserves to lose his freedom, not just 25k. Which I'm sure between family and friends he can cobble together.
And while he's off the streets, then yes the prison system should be set up to give him a reasonable chance at not remaining a violent piece of **** when he gets out.

Refusing to put people in prison because we've failed in our duty to provide both punishment and rehabilitation inside our prisons is pretty crazy.

Make the prisons do what they're designed to do, and then don't hesitate to put people like this guy into them.

Agree.

A big issue really is that once you've been locked up, it's very hard to get a decent job. Even a conviction without actual jail time will rule you out of most jobs.

So whilst a 3-6 month sentence in prison feels right in some cases for shitty behaviour, the actual impact of that usually goes way beyond that person simply losing their freedom for 3 months.

In some instances, it becomes a life sentence in terms of the impact to someone's life.

But having said that, I'm not even arguing against harsh punishments.

My concern is that once the punishment is complete, will this person be more dangerous to society as a result of the punishment? If the answer is yes, then is it really a good idea to punish them? Is the short term satisfaction we all get really worth it?


It's kind of like beating your dog to punish him. Sure, it will probably work in terms of him learning not to chew your slippers, and might even give you some short term satisfaction in terms of releasing some frustration - but when he mauls your children in a few years time, although your slippers are still intact - you've got to question whether beatings versus proper training was really the right approach.



Regardless, my point is that I'm just not sure that jail time is always the best way forward. I'm sure sometimes it is, but I don't think it's as clear cut as people want it to be.

 

[Kappa]

It’s not blind faith.

We have a choice on how we want these things to roll every three years at the ballot box.

If you want to live in a community that spends more taxpayer dollars on building more prisons to lock more people up for longer periods of time (because that’s effectively what you’re advocating) then you can vote for politicians who pledge that. And you can write to your local reps to advocate that. And you can donate your $$$ to the parties / reps who pledge those policies.

Do you think me changing my vote, or writing to my local member, will have an impact on the criminal justice system?

Sure, it’s hard to empathise with somebody who bashes a random on a night out for kicks …

… but you think a first time offender who has just been through the criminal legal system, and who has been convicted and now has a criminal record would now be laughing?

For lots of wealthy nepo babies, yes. There lots of young rich people for which 25k is nothing, he'll be extremely happy with the outcome.

Fines are only punishments for the non-wealthy. I heard he left court wearing a jacket worth several thousand dollars, doubt it'll bother him. That's why fines are a joke for serious violent offences.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Do you think me changing my vote, or writing to my local member, will have an impact on the criminal justice system?

Sure, how else does our society evolve?

Or even better, throw your own hat into the ring and if you can convince enough people that you’re onto something then you can work to change the criminal justice system yourself.

For lots of wealthy nepo babies, yes. There lots of young rich people for which 25k is nothing, he'll be extremely happy with the outcome.

Fines are only punishments for the non-wealthy. I heard he left court wearing a jacket worth several thousand dollars, doubt it'll bother him. That's why fines are a joke for serious violent offences.

Forget the fine.

Getting taken through the criminal courts, having to explain to your own lawyer WTF happened, having them grill you on how your story stacks up against the evidence, having your own lawyer explain the sentencing guidelines, having that hanging over your head until sentencing, going through the alien environment of a courtroom, having to figure out how to pay for the lawyers, having to deal with the social conversations with everyone from Grandma to girls to mates, being advised strongly by your lawyers that you need to stay clear of your co-defendants, etc, etc.

Relieved? Yes
Happy? No

 

[Shell]

Lmfao. You really think this piece of s**t will pay the fine?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Lmfao. You really think this piece of s**t will pay the fine?

I'm not familiar with how fines work at that level.

Why wouldn't he pay it? How can you avoid not paying it?

 

[00Stinger]

To play devil's advocate here...

He was fined $25k. And is sending a 21yo to prison really ideal?

I don't think the numbers are good in terms of rehabilitation in prison. You're more likely to come out as a genuine crook that a mild mannered law abiding citizen.

Whilst part of me really wants to see dickheads like this suffer in prison, another part of me wonders if it really helps society in the long run?

Does it benefit society to not really punish him though?