Scandal Jack Ziebell coward punched

[Shell]

I'm not familiar with how fines work at that level.

Why wouldn't he pay it? How can you avoid not paying it?

Well, they had someone on AW (sorry cannot remember his exact job) say the courts consider their ability to pay the fine.

If they can't then usually they wont be chased up and they wont have to pay it.

 

[Shell]

Considering he is 21, I would expect he has nowhere near 25k in the bank.

100% they should appeal this. Community service would be better than this joke of a punishment.

 

[DojoWarrior]

Considering he is 21, I would expect he has nowhere near 25k in the bank.

100% they should appeal this. Community service would be better than this joke of a punishment.

He's wearing a $2000 jacket to cover his face leaving court, wouldn't assume anything!

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Does it benefit society to not really punish him though?

That's the question that needs to be asked.

 

[Kram]

Agree.

A big issue really is that once you've been locked up, it's very hard to get a decent job. Even a conviction without actual jail time will rule you out of most jobs.

So whilst a 3-6 month sentence in prison feels right in some cases for shitty behaviour, the actual impact of that usually goes way beyond that person simply losing their freedom for 3 months.

In some instances, it becomes a life sentence in terms of the impact to someone's life.

But having said that, I'm not even arguing against harsh punishments.

My concern is that once the punishment is complete, will this person be more dangerous to society as a result of the punishment? If the answer is yes, then is it really a good idea to punish them? Is the short term satisfaction we all get really worth it?


It's kind of like beating your dog to punish him. Sure, it will probably work in terms of him learning not to chew your slippers, and might even give you some short term satisfaction in terms of releasing some frustration - but when he mauls your children in a few years time, although your slippers are still intact - you've got to question whether beatings versus proper training was really the right approach.



Regardless, my point is that I'm just not sure that jail time is always the best way forward. I'm sure sometimes it is, but I don't think it's as clear cut as people want it to be.

Do you think that some meat head reading this story will be put off throwing a punch at someone this weekend seeing this guy get off with a slap on the wrist, or do you think it might be a bit different if they seen that they went away for a couple of months?

 

[00Stinger]

That's the question that needs to be asked.

If someone isn't really punished, do you think they are more or less likely to reoffend knowing that the consequences aren't really there?

I get the sentiment of not wanting to put young offenders in the jail system. I do agree with it in certain areas/crimes, but when it comes to violent crimes I am 100% in the basket of putting the offender behind bars

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Im fairly certain that if you arrive at 20, 21 years of age and youre going around king hitting unsuspecting strangers youre probably a piece of s**t who cant be rehabilitated anyway so lock the prick up and keep it there.
This type of scumbag will probably shift some meth onto kids to fund his fine and in doing so make a whole heap of others victims too.

 

[Pacman82]

Got to understand the good old R card -The Racist Card would have been brought out to get this piece of Garbage off from doing Jail .
But if it was the other way around and if was someone of Middle Eastern,Asian,Islander or African appearance that would have been bashed by someone of caucasian appearance let say wearing a Neo Nazi scumbag clothing then that person would be jailed.
I don’t care if your black white pink green yellow in shin colour or of any background commit the crime and get caught do the jail time.
What these A-Holes did to Zieball was disgrace but are now laughing at Zieball and the law and I expect scum like this will do this to someone else and if caught again will know they will get off.

So you've read the court transcripts & it states they used their ethnic background to avoid a prison sentence? Sounds like you're just making stuff up to me.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Do you think that some meat head reading this story will be put off throwing a punch at someone this weekend seeing this guy get off with a slap on the wrist, or do you think it might be a bit different if they seen that they went away for a couple of months?

I definitely think jail term is a stronger deterrent. No doubt.

 

[HoldingThe Ball]

Honestly, this is disgraceful

The facts are this - this guy and a couple of mates got into it inside with a couple of AFL players and were ejected.

They WAITED outside for the first player they recognised, hit him from behind and then beat him nearly senseless when he lay unprotected on the floor.

They CHOSE to do this.

They could have gone home, to another venue, got some food - but no, they chose to wait to inflict physical injury to another human just because he played the same sport as the actual people they had a row with inside.

This was Ziebells retirement.

Instead of a night of good memories, all he has is a memory of lying in his own blood and piss, wondering if he was going to die.

A fine is absurd - how many times will the assailant miss payments (as there will be a payment 'plan) before he gets hauled back to court?

This was a premeditated assault on a defenceless person because those 3 guys felt slighted by whatever happened inside.

As for race - you betcha.

If this was an African or Middle-Eastern fella getting a brutal beating by 3 white men who WAITED for him outside a pub, these 3 would be looking at 10 yrs jail time each.

This needs a judicial review and resentencing - a fine is simply an insult to Jack Ziebell

7

Jack Ziebell

Age

33

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.1

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

4.6

5star

MG

369.5

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.6

3star

MG

125.8

2star

D

16.2

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.0

5star

, his family and every other innocent human being who gets viciously beaten, because some meathead has had a bad night.


Have all the apologists not seen his injuries - Ziebell could have been killed.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

If someone isn't really punished, do you think they are more or less likely to reoffend knowing that the consequences aren't really there?

I get the sentiment of not wanting to put young offenders in the jail system. I do agree with it in certain areas/crimes, but when it comes to violent crimes I am 100% in the basket of putting the offender behind bars

Honestly, I don't know the answer to this. I don't know what the data says, so I can only offer my own opinion.

My own personal experience has been that the threat of serious consequence has been enough to ensure that the people I know personally that were charged with assault, didn't do it again.


Having said that, I do think there are three types of people that do this sort of s**t. There are those who do something stupid as a once off, and regret their actions.
There are those who do it more than once, and only regret their actions once they're caught and face the realisation of how serious their actions are.

And then there are those that will keep doing it regardless of any consequence.

The first one, whilst deserving of punishment, doesn't feel like a jail term type scenario to me in most cases. I can understand why a judge may not send someone to jail for this type of thing.
I feel that jail for these ones (depending on the victim impact of course) will likely do more harm to society in the long run.

Same for the second one. There needs to be a punishment, but there is a case that society will be better off by not sending people to jail in this scenario.

The latter is a no brainer and these dudes need to both be punished and also put away in order to protect society from them.


If course the issue is that judges aren't really ever going to be certain which scenario each case fits under. That's what makes it difficult to get right.

I think the 'chuck 'em all in jail!' crowd are being short sighted and not thinking rationally.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I think you are confusing 'correlation' with 'causation'?

Where is the data of the control group? i.e. where is the data on the 'reoffending rate' on innocent people being sent to jail?

True.

 

[Drought Break]

Blind faith in authority is an extremely silly and dangerous stance to have.

And I disagree that it's a difficult position, violent unprovoked crimes = serious punishment.

Exactly. I lost all respect for our judicial system when a family member was punched and kicked to his death in an unprovoked attack and his killer walked free.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

As for race - you betcha.

If this was an African or Middle-Eastern fella getting a brutal beating by 3 white men who WAITED for him outside a pub, these 3 would be looking at 10 yrs jail time each.

I don't think that's true. I think that's nonsense. And unfortunately it's that type of factually unsupported nonsense that derails decent discussion.


This took me 10 seconds to find. I reckon I could find plenty more examples if I tried:

Brisbane man shouts racist tirade, strikes couple with crutches on Anzac Day

A group of people were attacked by a man who insulted them while they were fishing at Newstead.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Bash a defenseless woman with crutches and launch a racist tirade - and cop a 400 buck fine. No charges even laid, let alone jail time.


Trying to make this a race thing is just stupid.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

And you're an embarrassing joke, being an apologist for a king-hitting piece of trash.

You obviously haven't read a word I've written.

 

[00Stinger]

Honestly, I don't know the answer to this. I don't know what the data says, so I can only offer my own opinion.

My own personal experience has been that the threat of serious consequence has been enough to ensure that the people I know personally that were charged with assault, didn't do it again.


Having said that, I do think there are three types of people that do this sort of s**t. There are those who do something stupid as a once off, and regret their actions.
There are those who do it more than once, and only regret their actions once they're caught and face the realisation of how serious their actions are.

And then there are those that will keep doing it regardless of any consequence.

The first one, whilst deserving of punishment, doesn't feel like a jail term type scenario to me in most cases. I can understand why a judge may not send someone to jail for this type of thing.
I feel that jail for these ones (depending on the victim impact of course) will likely do more harm to society in the long run.

Same for the second one. There needs to be a punishment, but there is a case that society will be better off by not sending people to jail in this scenario.

The latter is a no brainer and these dudes need to both be punished and also put away in order to protect society from them.


If course the issue is that judges aren't really ever going to be certain which scenario each case fits under. That's what makes it difficult to get right.

I think the 'chuck 'em all in jail!' crowd are being short sighted and not thinking rationally.

I do agree with a lot of this

I reckon if you wait outside and attack someone from behind its almost like 1st degree murder (in the sense that its pre meditated). In that case I would put that straight in the jail basket. As opposed to if it was a fight that randomly broke out or something similar

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Everyone can see you're spouting a load of embarrassing garbage and being an apologist for human trash.

I'd be surprised if anyone, let alone everyone, deduced any of that from what I've written.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Nobody cares if prison wouldn't rehabilitate this person. Prison is simply where subhuman trash belongs. Anyone who thinks it's ok to indiscriminately hit people in the head does not deserve freedom.

Are you saying that anyone that indiscriminantly hits someone in the head should get Life in prison?


And further, are you of the belief that that is the case everywhere else except in Victoria?

 

[HoldingThe Ball]

I don't think that's true. I think that's nonsense. And unfortunately it's that type of factually unsupported nonsense that derails decent discussion.


This took me 10 seconds to find. I reckon I could find plenty more examples if I tried:

Brisbane man shouts racist tirade, strikes couple with crutches on Anzac Day

A group of people were attacked by a man who insulted them while they were fishing at Newstead.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Bash a defenseless woman with crutches and launch a racist tirade - and cop a 400 buck fine. No charges even laid, let alone jail time.


Trying to make this a race thing is just stupid.

You are not reading this - you are too busy arguing.

No-one is saying this is a racial attack

What people are trying to suggest to you is that had 3 White men laid in wait and savagely beaten a Black man, the penalties would be higher than 3 Black men savagely beating a White bloke.

Not a single person on this thread has suggested Jack Ziebell was targeted because of his skin colour. No-one.


And again (it seems to be a trend with certain political types) if you actually READ THE ARTICLE YOU QUOTED - you would see that it was a small fine for verbal abuse only - as no charges were laid for the 'assault' which mysteriously nobody else witnessed except the bloke ( the 'muay thai figher' ) in the article.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

Should be at least a 12 month suspended sentence on top of that and can be triggered if he offends in the next five years. He then has to consciously think of his actions hopefully until he reaches maturity. Even an intensive corrections order with compulsory anger management training and significant community service would be more of a deterrent if it seems that he is pretty well cashed up and the financial penalty might not affect him that much.
Would like to see this appealed , I am not a throw everyone in jail type but the pre meditated nature of this assault deserves much more stringent punishment

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

You are not reading this - you are too busy arguing.

No-one is saying this is a racial attack


Not a single person on this thread has suggested Jack Ziebell was targeted because of his skin colour. No-one.

I never said that anyone claimed it was a racial attack.

The racial nonsense I refer to, is people suggesting that he avoided jail because of his race. There's literally no evidence anywhere to support that. There's certainly no precedent of white people going to jail for this stuff (hence me being able to find an example in about 10 seconds).

As I said, the racial angle being suggested is just rubbish.

And again (it seems to be a trend with certain political types) if you actually READ THE ARTICLE YOU QUOTED - you would see that it was a small fine for verbal abuse only - as no charges were laid for the 'assault' which mysteriously nobody else witnessed except the bloke ( the 'muay thai figher' ) in the article.

??

There's literally a video of it.

 

[Toump Ass]

Pretty easy to criticise a judge.

Because they make inept decisions.
The one judge I know has lived a privileged life. A good person, sure, but he's never had to get to flinders street by train.

 

[Mr north man]

Considering he is 21, I would expect he has nowhere near 25k in the bank.

100% they should appeal this. Community service would be better than this joke of a punishment.

What would your opinion be if Joel Selwood had been bashed on the night of the 2022 Grand Final after being a premiership captain?

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I do agree with a lot of this

I reckon if you wait outside and attack someone from behind its almost like 1st degree murder (in the sense that its pre meditated). In that case I would put that straight in the jail basket. As opposed to if it was a fight that randomly broke out or something similar

I don't think it is much of a stretch to argue that they could have been charged with attempted murder.

Further, I find it very hard to believe that this was the first time this person has done this, whether caught, convicted or whatever.

Prisons are very far from perfect but frankly I don't give a s**t if they are in place to protect the rest of society from these campaigners.

 

[ferball]

Everyone can see you're spouting a load of embarrassing garbage and being an apologist for human trash.

Nobody cares about your preaching about "rehabilitation". This is about justice, and only an utterly broken society like the state of Victoria would allow a subhuman piece of garbage get away with literally king-hitting a person, which could've easily killed them.

Nobody cares if prison wouldn't rehabilitate this person. Prison is simply where subhuman trash belongs. Anyone who thinks it's ok to indiscriminately hit people in the head does not deserve freedom.

When are you off to prison then?

I don't like these campaigners either but they're human, not sub human. Don't bring your nazi master race s**t into this or use my footy club as an excuse to spout your crap.