James Hird - On the Couch

[Childish Gambino]

Not sure if anyone watched the show last night but Mike Sheehan brought up an article in the Herald Sun written by Mark Stevens on the 16/7/09 and quoted:

Lloyd, who will sit down with coach Matthew Knights to determine his own future, has relished the responsibility of captaincy since taking over from James Hird in 2006.

"I saw a lot of things creep in over time in the early 2000s where we probably just dropped the baton a bit," Lloyd said.

"You want guys to walk in and know immediately how to behave, carry yourself and prepare for footy."

Mike then went on to say that at this time Hird was the one carrying the baton and how did James feel about that. Hird seemed to take offence to what Lloyd had said about him and was very quick to defend himself by saying during his time as captain Essendon made the finals 7 out of his 8 years, which is a very good record.

Seems to me that there may be a bit of a rift between James and Matthew, I know it doesn't seem like a big deal but I think it is the second time Matthew has come out and had a little dig at a past great of the club.

Matthew should know his role at the Essendon Football Club and stop worrying about the past and start concentrating on the future.

 

[DapperDon]

I love Lloydy, but if he made me choose between himself and Sir James, Sir James will get my vote.

In all seriousness though, Lloyd is correct some things did creep in and we saw the effect of it in later years. Some players got too comfortable and slacked off, Lloyd has bought back the professionalism needed to content a premiership.

I await Caroline Wilson's article on how it's disrupting the board and it's effect on women's rights.

 

[Godzke]

I can't see Hird as ever being an enforcer of discipline ... too much of a nice guy in that respect, which is the same reason I don't see him coaching. He had every other trait required of a captain (and then some), but off the field dramas I think he left to Sheeds rather than intervening himself.

Lloyd's taken a more active role off the field because he's not as inspirational on it. I remember him calling the entire squad for a 6am session in the pool the night after a game (several hours before the scheduled one).

Mcveigh seems like another one who tries to enforce discipline but has sufferred a loss of respect after his recent weeks.

They never seemed "natural friends" but I'm pretty sure they (lloyd/hird) get along just fine.

 

[AJ_2000]

I can't see Hird as ever being an enforcer of discipline ... too much of a nice guy in that respect, which is the same reason I don't see him coaching. He had every other trait required of a captain (and then some), but off the field dramas I think he left to Sheeds rather than intervening himself.

Spot on.

Everyone has their own natural management style. There is the type that will get on your case for being 30 seconds late to work, compared with someone who has the expectation that everyone is responsible enough to turn up on time and won't bat an eyelid when people stroll in 20 mins late.

Who gets the better results? A lot of that is determined by the group you have. We did have a culture issue during the mid 2000s, most of that was due to trading for the wrong type of players and not having the right systems in place to stop the minor issues before they became big ones.

 

[Kong]

I remember reading in James Hird's autobiography Reading the Play a passage where he touched on the time around 2000.

He admitted that the team were pretty lucky to have the success they had, considering they were fairly unprofessional (for lack of a better word) at the time; he hinted there was a culture of late nights and drinking after games most weekends etc.

Taking that into consideration, I don't think there's much wrong with what Lloyd said. By all reports he has instilled a culture of professionalism that didn't exist before he took over the captaincy.

 

[Godzke]

Our downfall can be put down to senior players losing the hunger, motivation and professional accord required of a successful AFL player. I refer to the likes of Blumfield, Heffernan, Caracella (although he did ok after essendon), mecuri (worst offender), misiti (a little bit, not as much) and a few others.

Wellman, Fletcher and Lloyd are the only senior players I can think of that can continue to work hard ... Lloyd probably doesn't count as a "senior" player by that stage since he was only 22 or so.

 

[Hencho]

More of a dig at Sheedy I think.

 

[George Washington]

In Hirdys biography he referenced that he didnt really care if players rocked up to training in say the wrong socks, but apparently Lloydy is a stickler for those kinds of things.

It would be those kind of proffesionalism things that Lloydy would have changed when came in.

 

[ant555]

Talk about getting sucked into the media Hird v Lloyd fight.

I do not know why there is even a story. Mike only asked Hirdy becasue he knew it would draw a response. It was Mike simply looking for a headline.

It is a pretty well known fact that the club went off the rails a bit between 2002 and 2006. Blokes out partying, players who thought they did not have to train hard enough becasue they belived their own press, head cases brought in by Sheedy who thought he could sort them out.

Lloyd was right. Things had to change and the only way to do that is draw a line in the sand and start again.
I think that Matthew Knights has also put in place a lot of strict polocies. I know way back at the start a few players where locked out of team meatings for turning up 5 minutes late. The line was drawn then and a new era of profesionalism dawned.

 

[the fairytales complete]

Good mate of mine works with Hird. I am told Lloyd goes in there occasionly to talk football tactics so given that i doubt there is any bad blood between those too.

 

[efcboy]

yeah i'm with ant555. sheedy brought in blokes like ty zantuck, richie cole who were very bad with respect to drinking, late nights, attending training etc. i'd also say guys such as mark johnson and dean solomon were given a little too much latitude with respect to partying post premiership.

was it hird's responsibility to discipline his peers - wouldn't have thought so. at the time it was the senior coach and the board.

what we're seeing is the coaching panel and board allow lloyd and the leadership group to have more input into this area.

back in the early 00s it was the coach and boards responsibility. in the last few years the trend has evolved to allow the leadership groups of each club more control in this area.

 

[Godzke]

Good mate of mine works with Hird. I am told Lloyd goes in there occasionly to talk football tactics so given that i doubt there is any bad blood between those too.

Is that at his sports management business?

Because I did work experience at Goldman Sachs JBWere in 2003 (yr 11) when Hirdy was a stockbroker. I remember envying the guy sitting next to him because on his otherside he had Leigh Colbert.

I took my bombers top up there to get it signed ... i think he freaked a bit thinking "wtf ... here at work?"

 

[the fairytales complete]

Is that at his sports management business?

Because I did work experience at Goldman Sachs JBWere in 2003 (yr 11) when Hirdy was a stockbroker. I remember envying the guy sitting next to him because on his otherside he had Leigh Colbert.

I took my bombers top up there to get it signed ... i think he freaked a bit thinking "wtf ... here at work?"

yeah the company is called Gemba. I am extremely jealous of this mate!

 

[Macca18]

Again another media blow-up about nothing.

How did such an irrelevant issue actually demand space in a newspaper? I love how the authors of this articles (I'm surprised in this case it isn't from the queen of all rubbish tabloid articles in Caro) make it sound like those in question have actually come out and made statements in reply to criticism, when it is nearly always a journalist asking them about it in order to generate an irrelevant & uninteresting story. Totally blown out of proportion.

I don't expect the pair of them to be the greatest of friends but they have maintained a professional relationship over the years and still do to this day.

 

[Childish Gambino]

Again another media blow-up about nothing.

How did such an irrelevant issue actually demand space in a newspaper? I love how the authors of this articles (I'm surprised in this case it isn't from the queen of all rubbish tabloid articles in Caro) make it sound like those in question have actually come out and made statements in reply to criticism, when it is nearly always a journalist asking them about it in order to generate an irrelevant & uninteresting story. Totally blown out of proportion.

I don't expect the pair of them to be the greatest of friends but they have maintained a professional relationship over the years and still do to this day.

I totally agree, but I think it was Mike who took the quote out of context. I think he is more so having a go at Sheedy.

The only reason I brought up the issue is because it seemed to me that Hirdy was genuinely offended by those comments. But I'm sure he will speak to Lloyd during the week and gain a better understanding on what Lloyd actually meant.

 

[james_omahoney]

Talk about getting sucked into the media Hird v Lloyd fight.

I do not know why there is even a story. Mike only asked Hirdy becasue he knew it would draw a response. It was Mike simply looking for a headline.

It is a pretty well known fact that the club went off the rails a bit between 2002 and 2006. Blokes out partying, players who thought they did not have to train hard enough becasue they belived their own press, head cases brought in by Sheedy who thought he could sort them out.

Lloyd was right. Things had to change and the only way to do that is draw a line in the sand and start again.
I think that Matthew Knights has also put in place a lot of strict polocies. I know way back at the start a few players where locked out of team meatings for turning up 5 minutes late. The line was drawn then and a new era of profesionalism dawned.

I love that shit! One of our head managers at work came on board at the start of the year and did the same thing. Sends a pretty clear message.

 

[Pumper Rubberfunk]

I love Lloydy, but if he made me choose between himself and Sir James, Sir James will get my vote.

right on the money jim's quote on the couch "maybe you should just go out an captain instead of talking how to". the same socks at training wont win us a flag and maybe loyld should think about how he can contribute to the team as hird was at 35!!! i still love you loyld but please stop hangin out with the dead beat walls on chan 10

 

[Redb#]

I love Lloydy, but if he made me choose between himself and Sir James, Sir James will get my vote.

right on the money jim's quote on the couch "maybe you should just go out an captain instead of talking how to". the same socks at training wont win us a flag and maybe loyld should think about how he can contribute to the team as hird was at 35!!! i still love you loyld but please stop hangin out with the dead beat walls on chan 10

Hird is a legend, Lloyd will be the loser in my mind as well.

Lloyd is positioning for a post playing media career, he seems to be in the media a lot lately and perhaps dropping into controversy mode to get a profile for being outspoken.

That's Ok, but dont even think about slagging James Hird who has not needed to resort to sensationalism and has already become one of the better modern football commentators/special comments operators.

Redb

 

[james_omahoney]

Mountains out of molehills. They have differing leadership styles. Big deal.

 

[ant555]

Mountains out of molehills. They have differing leadership styles. Big deal.

You are right.
Some people getting carried away and making stupid comments .
FFS people the question was only asked by Sheehan so he could get a headline.

I don't know why people are making commens about Lloyd and backing Hird.
What Lloydy has said was on the money.
In Hirds last 2 or 3 years as captain a lot of crap went on. Hirdy says everything was fine becasue it did not end up in the paper but the reason for that is the club is very good at sweeping stuff under the carpet.

It is a simple fact that there was problems in certain areas as far as diciplin and profesionalism go and it was not simply about wearing the correct socks to training. A few of our on field leaders where leaders in the party stakes off field.
Lloyd was handed a ticking time bomb when he took over as captain and he has done a good job in seeing it did not blow up in his face.

Hirdy was a star and he is a reasonably good bloke but his downfall was that he was not always a good people person.