MRP / Trib. James Sicily - 3 weeks for dangerous tackle - SUSPENSION STANDS!

[DogDaySonny]

For the record, I thought Hawthorn argued the case as well as was possible.

• The AFL didn't consider or explain the classifying as they are supposed to. Response: "Just because we don't say we did doesn't mean it didn't happen."
• The AFL didn't consider the expert testimony. Response: "It doesn't matter if we did or not since we don't believe it would make a material difference, despite not looking at it. Also, past players know better, so there."

Hawthorn's two points are absolutely correct. But if the AFL is able to respond with "because I said so" to any challenge then there is no way to win in that forum. And I wonder what the AFL constitution and club agreements allow in terms of challenging "because I said so" rulings. It could be that the rules governing the body are so bent that the AFL can do anything it deems appropriate and the clubs have no recourse. I know that Carlton took them to court and won, but I also bet that the AFL changed whatever it was in the charter/constitution that made that possible. And they probably could make those changes without club input, just using the AFL board.

 

[josephine666]

My mate has been banging on for years that there should be no prior opportunity. If you have the ball and are tackled and don't dispose of it legally, HTB. I've argued against (for various reasons others have stated) but I have to admit I'm coming around. It would mean a lot more tap ons in congestion which makes for much faster and exciting play.

Keep it simple, if you have the ball in your possession and are tackled, you have 2 seconds to dispose of it legally, if not HTB. Simple for the umpires, no need to take a player to ground to dispossess. On the down side, it kind of feels like we are turning this once great physical sport into a game of tag, but AFL house is doing that anyway.

 

[Stranglers]

This.
It slows down play so much.

Also, constantly making players go over the mark. If they play on, they play on!

While we are adjusting the rules I'd also have the umpire award a 50m more readily when a player deliberately slows down play when a free is awarded against them. Starfishing on your opponent and feigning that you somehow have lost the ability to stand up while the defence floods back should be treated with the same level of tolerance as not returning the ball directly to the player taking the free kick.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Is there still any avenue for appeal outside the AFL, and if so when does that need to be done?

I would have thought that restraint of trade could be an avenue to civil court.

The people upholding the sentence at appeal, have followed the "AFL rule book" but they have in fact disregarded the truth that everyone knows, that is the tackle was fair and was rewarded with a free kick.

The only thing that was not ruled fairly was that McCluggage landed awkwardly , and even his tackler Sicily attempted to ease his opponent to the ground as another Hawk jumped over them.

So they followed the rule book (an AFL rule book remember not civil law book.

A book that has been tampered with by the AFL for over 20 years.

A book that has its users confused so badly that they use a set-in writing penalty list locked in stone, on how injured the player is! Heave help the footballer that takes a brilliant specky places his knee in a blokes neck and breaks his neck?
How many weeks for that , you see thats what this is maybe not as pronounced but Sicily like a high flyer was playing legal football tackling .
Decision made not on what legal or illegal tackle was delivered. Even McCluggage would understand that.
Even though one of his mouthy mates made a comment that probably didn't help Sicily after the event.

Then the medicos walked the man around the ground , good or bad I am no doctor but it looked bad enough to take him off on a stretcher.
I bet his family looked at that and felt ill.

So surely there is common sense in someone inside the AFL hierarchy, they fiddled the game long enough and its beginning to shake a lot of fans up SO IT SHOULD. This is grossly unfair , but worse its stupid and wrong.

A Kings Council on the appeals board for goodness sake, All that KC had to do was see the rule as written be informed of the injury to McCluggage, and hell, that KC had no choice but to uphold the words of a sports rule book.

Which does two things it showsthat the KC had no choice and the main point is

THAT THE AFL HAVE MADE RULES THAT ARE SO COMFUSING AND UNFAIR AND UNWARRANTED IN LOTS OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN CHANGED IN OUR SPORTS RULES . We all know this.
It will stuff the game amd the mindsetof players, it needs to be overhauled totally new thought patterns and new people in the AFL administration. That is an absolute, they are corporate a d money driven and politically correct to a fault, a big fault last week too!
It points tome anyway one way only Hawthorn should go to civil court because the decision was wrong
What ever was written in a sports book! That book being tampered with and changed to the confusion of everyone and keeps putting players OFF THE FIELD, for playing contact -contest football. There 'll be more like this more inconsistancies and more mistakes and confused umpires and players and paying followers of the sport?????

 

[triple treat]

Not sure if this has been mentioned ( haven’t read through the entire thread) but if the AFL are serious about protecting the head of players, make it mandatory to wear helmets. If they keep changing the rules like they are then the game is gonna be unrecognisable very quickly!

 

[DogDaySonny]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-tackle-crackdown-justin-koschitzke-reveals-impact-of-head-knocks/news-story/ce187df12777197d49107fd756b0f43d

There’s been no official rule change, but the numbers behind the AFL’s tackle crackdown are clear. Find out how and why things are changing.

Dangerous tackle suspensions have quadrupled this season as the AFL urges players to modify their tackle technique to help limit head knocks.

In a move strongly backed by AFL PA president Patrick Dangerfield, the league has handed out 23 suspensions and four fines to players across the first 14 rounds this season.

 

[offtherails9]

Not sure if this has been mentioned ( haven’t read through the entire thread) but if the AFL are serious about protecting the head of players, make it mandatory to wear helmets. If they keep changing the rules like they are then the game is gonna be unrecognisable very quickly!

Helmets have absolutely no affect on preventing concussions. Helmets don't stop the brain rattling against the skull.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Not sure if this has been mentioned ( haven’t read through the entire thread) but if the AFL are serious about protecting the head of players, make it mandatory to wear helmets. If they keep changing the rules like they are then the game is gonna be unrecognisable very quickly!

Helmets stop the skull getting caved in, they don't stop concussions

 

[Yardie]

Dangerous tackle suspensions have quadrupled this season as the AFL urges players to modify their tackle technique to help limit head knocks.

But the AFL aren't punishing poor techniques. It only works if you give a week for a poor tackle, regardless of outcome, and more if the player is injured FOR A POOR TACKLE.

 

[DogDaySonny]

But the AFL aren't punishing poor techniques. It only works if you give a week for a poor tackle, regardless of outcome, and more if the player is injured FOR A POOR TACKLE.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

But the AFL aren't punishing poor techniques. It only works if you give a week for a poor tackle, regardless of outcome, and more if the player is injured FOR A POOR TACKLE.

Take your vitriolic statement back where it came from. How dare you accuse them of not punishing poor tackles!

 

[Khmerhawk]

Seeing as the new rule seems to be that if anyone gets concussed then somebody needs to pay no matter what circumstances should Rohan now get rubbed out for Knocking out Cameron ?

 

[SC fish]

Seeing as the new rule seems to be that if anyone gets concussed then somebody needs to pay no matter what circumstances should Rohan now get rubbed out for Knocking out Cameron ?

Absolutely. Careless + Severe impact + High = straight to the tribunal

 

[triple treat]

Helmets stop the skull getting caved in, they don't stop concussions

So players like Brayshaw are wearing them to prevent there skull been smashed in? Fair enough I suppose, I’m no expert!

 

[KermitJagger]

So players like Brayshaw are wearing them to prevent there skull been smashed in? Fair enough I suppose, I’m no expert!

MMs comment is strange about skulls being smashed in, but it's half right. They're good at protecting against surface level damage but concussions are caused from the brain rattling inside the skull. The minor amount of cushioning to the outside of the head provided by a helmet isn't stopping concussions. If padding was all it took to stop concussions then boxing would have far fewer knock outs.

Brayshaw and others wearing helmets are probably doing so for peace of mind more than anything, but plenty of analysis in other sports - NRL in particular - indicate that they don't do anything to stop concussions. In fact it might be the opposite, as the feeling of security may make players more willing to put their head on the line.

If anything has helped Brayshaw avoid future concussions it's that he has been moved to the outside of the contest.

 

[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

Helmets have absolutely no affect on preventing concussions. Helmets don't stop the brain rattling against the skull.

I thought this as well but a doctor mate informed me that it does help.
Something about more time for deceleration and that they could be further improved.
Kinda makes sense particularly for head clashes where any protection would be doubled

 

[KermitJagger]

I thought this as well but a doctor mate informed me that it does help.
Something about more time for deceleration and that they could be further improved.
Kinda makes sense particularly for head clashes where any protection would be doubled

I'm not sure I understand what more time for deceleration means?

It's also fairly well studied that neither soft headgear, as worn in the AFL or more commonly the NRL, nor hard helmets like those worn in the NFL, reduce concussions and even less CTE accumulated over time.

Evaluation of protective equipment for prevention of injuries in rugby union - PubMed

The protective equipment used in rugby union has limited effectiveness in preventing injuries. The results are supportive, however, of a role for mouthguards and padded headgear in preventing orofacial and scalp injuries, respectively, and for support sleeves in preventing sprains and strains.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The association of padded headgear with concussion and injury risk in junior Australian football: A prospective cohort study

To assess whether padded headgear was associated with incidence of suspected sports-related concussion, non-sports-related concussion head injury, and…

www.sciencedirect.com

Helmets and Mouth Guards: The Role of Personal Equipment in Preventing Sport-Related Concussions

Every year, millions of athletes in the United States experience concussions. With athletes at all levels of play getting bigger, faster, and stronger, it has been suggested that newer technologies may provide an opportunity to reduce the risk and severity ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Sixpence]

Liked Sam's presser. Basically said they thought it was a perfect tackle and haven't told the players to change anything.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Liked Sam's presser. Basically said they thought it was a perfect tackle and haven't told the players to change anything.

Literally an identical tackle happened in the first (about 13min left) last night.
Bet it isn't even sighted

 

[Stranglers]

Seeing as the new rule seems to be that if anyone gets concussed then somebody needs to pay no matter what circumstances should Rohan now get rubbed out for Knocking out Cameron ?

Said the same thing this morning. If Rohan had been an opposition player you'd have everyone saying he was a sniping dog for running through Cameron and demanding 6 weeks. And there is no way the tribunal would deem it accidental.

 

[Roby]

Liked Sam's presser. Basically said they thought it was a perfect tackle and haven't told the players to change anything.

It's exactly what I would told Sicily if I was coach. James has laid 200 tackles in his career and none of them have ever turned into a concussion until last week.

 

[Ashman23]

How many weeks Rohan?

 

[SC fish]

How many weeks Rohan?

Based on my understanding it should be 3+ matches straight to the tribunal

 

[FisherHawk]

Helmets have absolutely no affect on preventing concussions. Helmets don't stop the brain rattling against the skull.

While the evidence is limited about reducing the risk of concussion, they are beneficial with the site of impact injury, softens the blow. That's about all they're good for. When the head receives a significant blow, the brain has a limited amount of cushioning from the fluid, the CSF surrounding the brain. Coup and contrecoup injuries are the risk in head blows caused by the skull impacting the ground heavily. These are brain injuries at the impact site or the opposite site of the impact. I'm all for protecting the head and with the lawyers lining up, it's time it was seriously addressed. However, Sicily tackle looked fair to me and 3 weeks is outrageous, especially as there's been worse examples this year.

 

[Gaborone]

Siliy v Rohan, what's the difference?
To quote posters on another site:
"...the AFL don't accept accidents anymore, if a head is hit, the hitter could and should have done something different, even if that something else defies both common sense and the law of physics
"... Does the care only exist if you carelessly take out an opponent? If so, how seriously is the head protection being taken, because surely your teammate is at risk of long term injury too' and
"...If the MRO believes any of the rubbish they have spouted about "duty of care" and "chose to bump" over the last few years they have to suspend Gary Rohan

23

Gary Rohan

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

1.2

4star

".