Past Kieren Jack - retired 2019

[caesar88]

Mate he has been tried and tried. He is not AFL Standard. Exceptional players go from NEAFL to AFL And step up to the standard. He has not looked like it. Not against Rowbottom debuting in front of Jack. He is the Future and Jack was the past but Jack before Rose.

I agree I don't want Rose in the team either. Like I said it's a dire situation no matter which way you look at it. We're relying on either a veteran who looks past it and hasn't shown enough to suggest otherwise, a NEAFL superstar who can't translate it to senior footy, and an 18 year old who may not be ready.

I'd rather us go with Melican and COR, have McCartin play forward, and then the other three fight it out again in the NEAFL, but if we are turning to the reserves, surely you would have to base it on the form displayed on the weekend.

 

[TheMase]

Possibly, but was he playing as a defensive forward in the NEAFL? Even so, a defensive forward is a really negative mindset to go into a game with, someone we know won't impact in terms of actually having the ball, but rather someone we hope might be able to lay a few tackles in the forward line. I would rather go with a young player who offers a bit more offensively.

Keeping the ball in the forward line through defensive pressure and a ‘forward press’ is massive at AFL level. Struggling to emphasise enough how important it is.

 

[RUNVS]

Keeping the ball in the forward line through defensive pressure and a ‘forward press’ is massive at AFL level. Struggling to emphasise enough how important it is.

I completely agree. I just don't think Jack is particularly good at defensive pressure anymore. I mean in 2018 he averaged 3.6 tackles a game, which is half of what he averaged in 2013 and the lowest numbers of his career (excluding the 2 games he played in 2007).

 

[TheMase]

I’d be tempted to play Jack as a small forward over Ronke if he can’t turn it around.

We know that Jack will put in the work rate and has always been a strong tackler.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Need to reward good NEAFL performances. If we are selecting players based on their name instead of their merit then we are not better than Trump with putting Ivanka into positions of power because of who she is, rather than what she is capable of.

Then bring one of the kids in to debut. Not a player who is a good NEAFL Player. Rose is not an AFL Player Fullstop.

 

[TheMase]

I completely agree. I just don't think Jack is particularly good at defensive pressure anymore. I mean in 2018 he averaged 3.6 tackles a game, which is half of what he averaged in 2013 and the lowest numbers of his career (excluding the 2 games he played in 2007).

Different role though, as he pushed further up the ground last year. Ronke was 3.9 last year so only slightly more probably without as much running through the middle of the ground.

So far this year Ronke has delivered 3 and 1 (ave 2) and has had 2 games of less than 10 disposals and barely hitting the scoreboard.

In fact since his 5 goal game in round 17 last year he has returned:
9 games, 4 goals, 3.55 tackles

 

[Wolfgang West]

I agree I don't want Rose in the team either. Like I said it's a dire situation no matter which way you look at it. We're relying on either a veteran who looks past it and hasn't shown enough to suggest otherwise, a NEAFL superstar who can't translate it to senior footy, and an 18 year old who may not be ready.

I'd rather us go with Melican and COR, have McCartin play forward, and then the other three fight it out again in the NEAFL, but if we are turning to the reserves, surely you would have to base it on the form displayed on the weekend.

And thats how it will probably play out but play a Kid who may have a future who has played well not a bloke who plays well gets promoted and time and time again is shown up at the level to the point of we might as well have played 21 because his impact is zero. Hate talking this way about young players trying their best to make it but afraid where Rose is concerned it is Fact. How he is on an AFL List is mind boggling.

 

[RUNVS]

Different role though, as he pushed further up the ground last year. Ronke was 3.9 last year so only slightly more probably without as much running through the middle of the ground.

So far this year Ronke has delivered 3 and 1 (ave 2) and has had 2 games of less than 10 disposals and barely hitting the scoreboard.

In fact since his 5 goal game in round 17 last year he has returned:
9 games, 4 goals, 3.55 tackles

But by going with 2018 stats Ronke averaged more tackles per game than Jack.

 

[caesar88]

And thats how it will probably play out but play a Kid who may have a future who has played well not a bloke who plays well gets promoted and time and time again is shown up at the level to the point of we might as well have played 21 because his impact is zero. Hate talking about young players trying their best to make it but afraid where Rose is concerned it is Fact. How he is on an AFL List is mind boggling.

I agree with you mate. I still feel for Rose because really I think the club just prolonged the inevitable with him. Another whole season of him probably putting in stellar NEAFL games, getting his hopes up and then having false starts in the seniors. Should've cut out losses and let the bloke get on with his life or maybe try at another club.

As for Rowbottom, he was listed in the bests in all three NEAFL practice matches as well so really he's put together a solid month's worth of impressive performances, so it's not like he hasn't put the yards in. I had big wraps for him pre-draft and was glad we took him but still see him as an inside player and if he's just gonna be tucked away in a forward pocket I think I'd rather him wait in the NEAFL for a midfield spot to open up.

 

[Gongswan]

If Jack gets selected it's because of his value as a leader, skills etc aside

 

[TheMase]

But by going with 2018 stats Ronke averaged more tackles per game than Jack.

Ronke got around an extra tackle every 3 games. Hardly a groundbreaking difference.

In any case I am not sure I would select Jack to replace Ronke for this role, however Ronke can’t continue with that output as someone will be taking his spot if he does.

Right at the moment, I would probably take Jack over him as he would have more impact and playing closer to goal his tackle count would likely increase.

(I’d actually play Rowbottom with stints in the middle).

 

[RUNVS]

Ronke got around an extra tackle every 3 games. Hardly a groundbreaking difference.

In any case I am not sure I would select Jack to replace Ronke for this role, however Ronke can’t continue with that output as someone will be taking his spot if he does.

Right at the moment, I would probably take Jack over him as he would have more impact and playing closer to goal his tackle count would likely increase.

(I’d actually play Rowbottom with stints in the middle).

To me if Rowbottom plays he needs to play in the middle. It is not fair to him to play him in the AFL in a position he has never really played before.

 

[TheMase]

To me if Rowbottom plays he needs to play in the middle. It is not fair to him to play him in the AFL in a position he has never really played before.

Not fair? Goodness. He is now a professional AFL footballer and the club will play him where they see fit. He is still on the same oval, more or less the same skills are required. If you asked Rowbottom as he is selected for his debut game in the forward line with some stints in the midfield whether he thinks it is fair and I am almost certain he would be stoked to be playing seniors wherever he is required. It wouldn’t even cross his mind.

He played some time forward in the NEAFL on the weekend which tends to indicate that they are fairly happy with his midfield game and are exposing him to other areas of the ground preparing him for AFL football which will likely come sooner rather than later based on his early progress.

 

[caesar88]

Not fair? Goodness. He is now a professional AFL footballer and the club will play him where they see fit. He is still on the same oval, more or less the same skills are required. If you asked Rowbottom as he is selected for his debut game in the forward line with some stints in the midfield whether he thinks it is fair and I am almost certain he would be stoked to be playing seniors wherever he is required. It wouldn’t even cross his mind.

He played some time forward in the NEAFL on the weekend which tends to indicate that they are fairly happy with his midfield game and are exposing him to other areas of the ground preparing him for AFL football which will likely come sooner rather than later based on his early progress.

I'm not against him playing in the forward line because on the weekend he was basically just a midfielder in the forward line, so he wasn't doing anything out of his comfort zone. Still cracked in, won 50/50 balls, set up plays, tackled hard, all the stuff you'd want from a midfielder it was just predominantly in the forward half of the ground.

I just don't think he'd see much of it if he debuted in the forward line, especially given the way we so often lose the territory battle at the SCG, and think because of his inexperience, he'd be caught ball-watching and end up a spectator. Which would be a bit of a wasted selection given he's such a tough nut.

 

[TheMase]

I'm not against him playing in the forward line because on the weekend he was basically just a midfielder in the forward line, so he wasn't doing anything out of his comfort zone. Still cracked in, won 50/50 balls, set up plays, tackled hard, all the stuff you'd want from a midfielder it was just predominantly in the forward half of the ground.

I just don't think he'd see much of it if he debuted in the forward line, especially given the way we so often lose the territory battle at the SCG, and think because of his inexperience, he'd be caught ball-watching and end up a spectator. Which would be a bit of a wasted selection given he's such a tough nut.

I don’t see why he can’t replicate that at AFL level. I am guessing we will find out in the not too distant future!

 

[Mick Oxlong]

I completely agree. I just don't think Jack is particularly good at defensive pressure anymore. I mean in 2018 he averaged 3.6 tackles a game, which is half of what he averaged in 2013 and the lowest numbers of his career (excluding the 2 games he played in 2007).

So what, we won the flag in 2005 and lost in 2006...did that make us any worse as a team?

You normally have 2 shits a day but on this particular day, you have 1...does that make you constipated?

 

[Mick Oxlong]

I'm not against him playing in the forward line because on the weekend he was basically just a midfielder in the forward line, so he wasn't doing anything out of his comfort zone. Still cracked in, won 50/50 balls, set up plays, tackled hard, all the stuff you'd want from a midfielder it was just predominantly in the forward half of the ground.

I just don't think he'd see much of it if he debuted in the forward line, especially given the way we so often lose the territory battle at the SCG, and think because of his inexperience, he'd be caught ball-watching and end up a spectator. Which would be a bit of a wasted selection given he's such a tough nut.

Stop guessing, you are speculating. What you think and what happens will most likely be poles apart!

 

[caesar88]

Stop guessing, you are speculating. What you think and what happens will most likely be poles apart!

Which is why I said think.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Which is why I said think.

Anyone and almost everyone says ‘think’. You are saying it as if it’s inevitable. For anyone to suggest that must have incredible knowledge of the future and if they did, you can rest assured they’d be quite wealthy!

Ronke has never kicked 7 goals in the twos but he just so happened to do it when he played in the AFL!

 

[caesar88]

Anyone and almost everyone says ‘think’. You are saying it as if it’s inevitable. For anyone to suggest that must have incredible knowledge of the future and if they did, you can rest assured they’d be quite wealthy!

Ronke has never kicked 7 goals in the twos but he just so happened to do it when he played in the AFL!

I'm not saying it's inevitable. I'm saying I think it's inevitable. My own personal guess as to how footy will play out which is really what we're all doing on here. Anyone who claims to be doing anything other than guessing is kidding themselves

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Well if he played as a forward then we need to judge him on goals and



it seems Rose kicked a lot more goals than him, as did a 17 year old academy kid who looks to be around 155cm tall.

Often coaches will deliberately omit good performers from the 2s “bests” to mask performance from other club’s analysts.

 

[scaryness]

Or maybe a half back to replace McVeigh?

Honestly, the way people on this board write off our older players is ridiculous.

Like it or not, speed may well be the most important attribute in footy now. Older players won't be getting as old as they used to be able to before being out of the best 22, unless you are Boomer type where you never lose it.

 

[The King!]

i want to see what Jack has left in the tank, if hes fully fit hes better than the other options

 

[MC Bad Genius]

I'm not against Jack coming back into the side at some point this year, but I'm not convinced that this is the time. He is coming back from injury still and hasn't really stepped up at NEAFL level yet, which I imagine would have to be a fitness issue rather than an ability level. Pushing him back to the AFL seems pretty damn risky. And him playing as a small forward isn't going to add any leadership to our back 6.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

I'm not saying it's inevitable. I'm saying I think it's inevitable. My own personal guess as to how footy will play out which is really what we're all doing on here. Anyone who claims to be doing anything other than guessing is kidding themselves

According to the media, it’s a lay down misere that he’s named.



This board may go haywire tonight when he’s named in the 22