Toast Lance Franklin - do you remember him more as a Hawk or Swan?
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Recency bias and 1000th goal suggests Sydney, but he was at his best while at Hawthorn, plus won 2 flags there.
I think he'll be remembered as a two-club player. His career Is almost evenly split between the two clubs.
Hawthorn obviously drafted and developed him, and he chose to move to the swans for personal/lifestyle reasons.
I think he'll be remembered as a two-club player. His career Is almost evenly split between the two clubs.
Hawthorn obviously drafted and developed him, and he chose to move to the swans for personal/lifestyle reasons.
What i do know is that across 2 clubs those stats will never be replicated again.
So i think he had bigger moments in a Hawthorn jumper his 2008 season and 2011 seasons were as good as anyone.
His 2 flags and the 13 goals against North are more iconic moments than anything he produced in a Sydney jumper.
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Nobody said Chris Judd was a "failure" at Carlton. The question was whether the Judd trade was a failure. The Blues got themselves a sublime clearance machine who dominated for 4 or 5 seasons and dragged his team up the ladder. But they were unable to make much of an impression in the finals. They never finished in Top 4. They played in 4 Elimination Finals: for 2 losses, 2 wins (both times eliminated 1 week later in the Semi Final.)
Not his fault, of course... He did everything within his superhuman powers... but it made people question if the trade was ultimately a win for Carlton, or a win for West Coast. The jury is still out. Fans of both teams claim it was a win for them.
The thing was, the Blues gave up a lot to get Judd... They traded picks 3 and 20 in the 2007 Draft, plus a 20 year old CHF named Josh Kennedy who was pick 4 in the 2005 Draft. He went on to have a Hall of Fame career with the Eagles, kicking 700+ goals, 3 times All Australian, captained their club and led them to a premiership in 2018.
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Buddy was a massive success for Sydney. No two ways about it. Only a fool would say otherwise. He kicked arse. They might not have won a flag with him, but he was a HUGE drawcard. He packed out the SCG for close to a decade and was the face of AFL footy.
The Swans didn't give up anything to get him. He was a free agent.. Albeit an expensive free agent whose monster wage didn't leave the Swans a lot of wiggle room for re-signing their other stars. His controversial signing also led to the COLA being scrapped by angry AFL executives who had earmarked him to be the poster boy of their fledgling Giants.
Franklin was awesome for Sydney in 2014 and 2016 when he carried them to the Grand Final in both those seasons. The Swans had other good players, but they were midfielders and defenders. Their forwards were nothing special. Check out their goal kickers in those 2 seasons and look how Franklin carried their forward division.
2014 goals
79 Franklin
34 Tippett
30 Goodes (34yo)
25 Parker
24 McGlynn
18 Jack
17 Reid
15 McVeigh, Cunningham
14 Jetta
13 Kennedy
11 Hannebery
2016 goals
81 Franklin
29 Papley (20yo)
28 Heeney (20yo)
25 Parker
25 Rohan
24 McGlynn
20 Kennedy
18 Hewett
17 Tippett
15 Mitchell
13 Hannebery, Jack, X.Richards
10 Towers, Sinclair
Franklin kicked 160 of their 713 goals in these 2 seasons. (22.5%)
That's pretty insane for a Grand Final team in the modern era where the scoring is shared around.
The difference between Buddy at Hawthorn and Lance in Sydney was: at Hawthorn, he was a part of the greatest forward line in history. At Sydney, he was the forward line.
HF.... Gunston.... Franklin......... Rioli
F...... Puopolo.... Roughead..... Breust
Three superstars of the comp (Buddy, Roughie, Cyril), two All-Australian guns who kicked 50+ goals (Breust, Gunston), and Poppy, a livewire tackling machine who played like the Energiser Bunny. He was no slouch around goals either... very dangerous.
They weren't just supremely talented as individuals though... The way they worked together was sublime. They were so good together that when Buddy went to Sydney after the 2013 season, Hawthorn's forward line functioned even BETTER with the inside fifties distributed more evenly. Buddy had a way of always attracting the ball. Put yourselves in the shoes of any Hawks or Swans midfielder... Who wouldn't kick it to Buddy when he led out from goal?
That was always Buddy's strength. He had enormous self belief and a huge engine. He kept presenting. He was THE MAN. He wanted to win the game off his own boot. He never shied away from the responsibility of kicking the big goal. The bigger occasion, the more he wanted the ball, the more he wanted to be the hero. He never eased up. Never went into his shell when it wasn't his day. Didn't matter if he'd kicked 2.6, he would keep putting himself in position to get the next one.
Look at his highlights... All those trademark goals of this.. the famous running goals where he'd take 2,3,4 bounces.... Or those massive 65m-70m bombs he kicked... Or the crazy set shots from the left hand boundary line (again and again and again...) Or the 40m banana/checkside punts.... Or the audacious dribble kicks with his opponents hanging off him... Or when he'd crash through tackles and do a U-turn and dob it from 55m....
Other players in these situations would be looking to give the ball off to a teammate.. But not Buddy.. His only thought was "I must kick the GOAL!" .... and he did...
He not only had incredible hunger for goals and supreme confidence, but he also had the supreme ability to back it up.He had the greatest left boot of anyone in history. His field kicking or shooting for goal. The power and distance he'd get was incredible: scything laser-like 60m passes across the ground & onto a teammate's chest. Or 70m bombs for goal from inside the centre square. Drop punts, not torps.
There has never been anyone who kicked as many goals as Buddy did from outside 50m.
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Hawk.
Sydney Franklin is like Carlton Judd.
He was still great but simply not as good.
Sydney Franklin is like Carlton Judd.
He was still great but simply not as good.
Brilliant postNobody said Chris Judd was a "failure" at Carlton. The question was whether the Judd trade was a failure. The Blues got themselves a sublime clearance machine who dominated for 4 or 5 seasons and dragged his team up the ladder. But they were unable to make much of an impression in the finals. They never finished in Top 4. They played in 4 Elimination Finals: for 2 losses, 2 wins (both times eliminated 1 week later in the Semi Final.)
Not his fault, of course... He did everything within his superhuman powers... but it made people question if the trade was ultimately a win for Carlton, or a win for West Coast. The jury is still out. Fans of both teams claim it was a win for them.
The thing was, the Blues gave up a lot to get Judd... They traded picks 3 and 20 in the 2007 Draft, plus a 20 year old CHF named Josh Kennedy who was pick 4 in the 2005 Draft. He went on to have a Hall of Fame career with the Eagles, kicking 700+ goals, 3 times All Australian, captained their club and led them to a premiership in 2018.
---------------------------------------------------
Buddy was a massive success for Sydney. No two ways about it. Only a fool would say otherwise. He kicked arse. They might not have won a flag with him, but he was a HUGE drawcard. He packed out the SCG for close to a decade and was the face of AFL footy.
The Swans didn't give up anything to get him. He was a free agent.. Albeit an expensive free agent whose monster wage didn't leave the Swans a lot of wiggle room for re-signing their other stars. His controversial signing also led to the COLA being scrapped by angry AFL executives who had earmarked him to be the poster boy of their fledgling Giants.
Franklin was awesome for Sydney in 2014 and 2016 when he carried them to the Grand Final in both those seasons. The Swans had other good players, but they were midfielders and defenders. Their forwards were nothing special. Check out their goal kickers in those 2 seasons and look how Franklin carried their forward division.
2014 goals
79 Franklin
34 Tippett
30 Goodes (34yo)
25 Parker
24 McGlynn
18 Jack
17 Reid
15 McVeigh, Cunningham
14 Jetta
13 Kennedy
11 Hannebery
2016 goals
81 Franklin
29 Papley (20yo)
28 Heeney (20yo)
25 Parker
25 Rohan
24 McGlynn
20 Kennedy
18 Hewett
17 Tippett
15 Mitchell
13 Hannebery, Jack, X.Richards
10 Towers, Sinclair
Franklin kicked 160 of their 713 goals in these 2 seasons. (22.5%)
That's pretty insane for a Grand Final team in the modern era where the scoring is shared around.
The difference between Buddy at Hawthorn and Lance in Sydney was: at Hawthorn, he was a part of the greatest forward line in history. At Sydney, he was the forward line.
HF.... Gunston.... Franklin......... Rioli
F...... Puopolo.... Roughead..... Breust
Three superstars of the comp (Buddy, Roughie, Cyril), two All-Australian guns who kicked 50+ goals (Breust, Gunston), and Poppy, a livewire tackling machine who played like the Energiser Bunny. He was no slouch around goals either... very dangerous.
They weren't just supremely talented as individuals though... The way they worked together was sublime. They were so good together that when Buddy went to Sydney after the 2013 season, Hawthorn's forward line functioned even BETTER with the inside fifties distributed more evenly. Buddy had a way of always attracting the ball. Put yourselves in the shoes of any Hawks or Swans midfielder... Who wouldn't kick it to Buddy when he led out from goal?
That was always Buddy's strength. He had enormous self belief and a huge engine. He kept presenting. He was THE MAN. He wanted to win the game off his own boot. He never shied away from the responsibility of kicking the big goal. The bigger occasion, the more he wanted the ball, the more he wanted to be the hero. He never eased up. Never went into his shell when it wasn't his day. Didn't matter if he'd kicked 2.6, he would keep putting himself in position to get the next one.
Look at his highlights... All those trademark goals of this.. the famous running goals where he'd take 2,3,4 bounces.... Or those massive 65m-70m bombs he kicked... Or the crazy set shots from the left hand boundary line (again and again and again...) Or the 40m banana/checkside punts.... Or the audacious dribble kicks with his opponents hanging off him... Or when he'd crash through tackles and do a U-turn and dob it from 55m....
Other players in these situations would be looking to give the ball off to a teammate.. But not Buddy.. His only thought was "I must kick the GOAL!" .... and he did...
He had the greatest left boot of anyone in history. His field kicking or shooting for goal. The power and distance he'd get was incredible: scything laser-like 60m passes across the ground & onto a teammate's chest. Or 70m bombs for goal from inside the centre square. Drop punts, not torps.
There has never been anyone who kicked as many goals as Buddy did from outside 50m.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Swan for me. Kicking his 1000th goal last year v Cats reinforced that for me.
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It was pretty even really although his best individual season was at the Hawks in 2008.
He had a couple of lean years at the Hawks while he found his feet in the game and a couple of lean years at the Swans while he was winding down. Outside of that he had a stretch of about 14 years (7 at each club) where he dominated the game. He won 8 AA selections (4 at each club). In that period the only exception was 2020 where he missed quite a few through injury. He kicked more goals for the hawks and collected more brownlow votes at the swans.
At the end of the day he's an absolute freak for what he was able to give to 2 different clubs. Most players could only dream of achieving what he did at just one.
TheArchitect
Team Captain
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I think his 2008 year alone cements him as a Hawk. That was his best year.
Outside of that, his other best years were evenly split across the two clubs.
Outside of that, his other best years were evenly split across the two clubs.
STRONGandBALD
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Well looks like he’s a considered a swan. Concept memorabilia from Official Memorabilia is this. Poor hawks fans lol
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Hat etc know the extortion the AFL is making on this lol
Yes, agreed.
In addition to him wanting out of Melbourne, I'm pretty sure Jesinta specifiacally wanted to move to Sydney as she had some job opportunities there (modelling and TV). As such, his comments about wanting "premiership success" have been taken out of context. He meant it in reference to the choice between Sydney (a regular premiership contender and flag winner 12 months earlier when he was initially courted) and where everyone thought he was going in GWS (a new team of rookies at the bottom of the ladder).
Hawthorn and its fans used the 'premiership success' line as fuel but I don't think it was intended to be in contrast to the team he was leaving (who were reigning premiers at the time) as it wasn't a question of 'stay or go' but rather a question of GWS or Sydney (with everyone believing it to be GWS). GWS were offering more money (if you include ambassador payments) but he chose Sydney as he wanted a mega contract AND to be competing for flags (which is fair enough IMO).
I think this is right. If I conjure an image of Buddy it is in Swans colors, probably because of "recency".
Lockett won a Brownlow at St Kilda, you rarely see any vision these days other than the record breaking goal in Swans colors at the SCG.
I guess his 100th goal or the Hooker goal might get played, but more than likely it's the crowd rush for his 1000th goal in Swans colors imo.
Generally it's one or two clips that define a players career that get played years down the line.
Ablett Snr = The one handed mark from Leigh Tudor in the Geelong vs North 94' Prelim and the Pert Mark.
Carey = the left footed banana on the boundary in the famous Essendon comeback + his mark in the 1993 prelim.
etc.
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Lockett's career was also far more biased toward Saints than Swans, he was 11 years at Saints and 5 years at Swans but still I would think most under 40s would think of him as more Swan than Saint. As time goes on that perception just gets stronger.
Franklin is close to 50/50 between the clubs.
This is an interesting take.
Probably because I remember Lockett more as a Saint than as a Swan (and whenever Lockett's record is discussed, people always talk of how his goal tally would be much higher if he played in a competitive team, clearly referencing his Saints days as Sydney were quite competitive in his time there which people seem to forget).
Agree regarding the 1000 goal clip, though I reckon other clips will also still get a fair run into the future, including his 100th goal in a season (whenever discussion comes up of "when will it next happen, "will it ever happen again" and everytime someone has a fast start and looks 'potentially' on track).
Also the clips of some of his more famous goals still geta run and most of those are in Hawthorn colours - often highlight of the decade, etc feature his running goals against Essendon and his big go ahead goals in finals (vs Collingwood and Adelaide), all of which occurred at Hawthorn.
Either way, I think the only fair answer is probably both, given he played nearly the same number of games at both and has a bag full of accoladaes at both clubs.
Yes i know.
TheArchitect
Team Captain
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Most if not all under the age of 21 will remember him as a Swan.
As I said, the greats are generally even limited to just one or two iconic clips that get played years down the line on repeat when discussing them.
Even Ablett Snr and Carey are generally just defined by 1 or 2 clips these days and they were human highlight reels.
If I was to guess it will be:
1. His 1000th goal
2. Hooker goal
As the two that get played in 10-20 years when talking about him on TV shows. Depending on the order of those two clips will determine if he is remembered as a Swan or Hawk, it's that simple.
Percel
Percel doesn't like microwave meals
Hawk, he was a winner there
