Lets get this straight, It's NOT about Christ

[Pessimistic]

It may be called CHRISTmas but the 'true' meaning of the festival is NOT what the various clergy go on about at this time of year (and have as long as I can remember)

It was some kind of pagan festival associated with the shortest daylight day in the Northern hemisphere. The christmas tree, the food, the candles etc all associated with this.

The christians pulled a fast one and rebadged it christmas and now are complaining because a coca cola inspired santa has done the same to them. Saint Nickclaus was a christian so give them that much.

Boxing day was the day to give presents to friends and the poor.

Some of you will know more than me on this but it's a bit galling of the clergy to complain about no nativity scane in melbourne when they have churches in a prime positions - what's wrong with THEM having a nativity scene.

Oh and apparently dec 25th is not His Birthday (a bit like the queen I suppose- it happens on the wrong day)

 

[Qsaint]

It was some kind of pagan festival associated with the shortest daylight day in the Northern hemisphere.

Nearly all Christian festivals are pagan

 

[- PC -]

Nearly all Christian festivals are pagan

Correct

http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/holidays2.htm

It is beyond doubt that Christmas was originally a pagan festival. The time of the year and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin.

Isis, the Egyptian title for the "queen of heaven," gave birth to a son at this very time, about the time of the winter solstice. The term "Yule" is the Chaldee (Babylonian) name for "infant" or "little child."

This pagan festival not only commemorated the figurative birthday of the sun in the renewal of its course, but it also was celebrated (on December 24) among the Sabeans of Arabia, as the birthday of the "Lord Moon."

Easter: It's Totally Pagan too!

Easter is not a Christian name. It is Chaldean (Babylonian) in origin - the name Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven. The name Astarte, as found on the Assyrian monuments by the noted archeologist Layard, was the name Ishtar. The worship of Bel and Astarte was introduced very early into Britain, along with the Druids, "the priests of the groves," the high places where the pagans worshipped the idols of Baal. In the Almanac of the 1800's, May 1st is called Beltane, from the pagan god, Bel. The titles Bel and Molech both belong to the same god.

We must remember that Semiramis (also known as Ishtar) of Babylon, the wife of Nimrod and mother of Tammuz, was the same goddess worshiped throughout the world under various names, such as the Egyptian fertility god, Artemis, the Roman goddess of licentiousness, Venus, the Greek goddess of love, Aphrodite, and the Ephesian, many-breasted fertility god, Diana, as well as many others.

The (Easter) bunny, the oldest pagan symbol of fertility - Semiramis - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the birth of Christ.

Nor does the Sunrise service. Jesus was resurrected while it was still DARK!


"And early came Mary Magdalene, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre

 

[funkyfreo]

Who cares, those pagans probably stole it from some other pagans.

You still cannot deny that Christmas is about the birth of Christ, believe it or not.

This is just a thread to rile fundamental Christians - but there are so many valid and interesting ways to do that then why stoop to this.

It is hardly like you are breaking any just to hand news?

 

[- PC -]

Who cares, those pagans probably stole it from some other pagans.

You still cannot deny that Christmas is about the birth of Christ, believe it or not.

This is just a thread to rile fundamental Christians - but there are so many valid and interesting ways to do that then why stoop to this.

It is hardly like you are breaking any just to hand news?

(In my best McEnroe voice) You cannot be serious!!!!

It stopped being about the birth of christ when ET sold more videos than god did.

Its about who can give the best present, who can hold their emotions in check when they get a crappy present.

Can you hear Madonna?( the singer not the saint) ''I'm a Material Girl''

 

[Bombers 2003]

Beltane is a celtic festival ,not a semitic one.

 

[funkyfreo]

(In my best McEnroe voice) You cannot be serious!!!!

It stopped being about the birth of christ when ET sold more videos than god did.

Its about who can give the best present, who can hold their emotions in check when they get a crappy present.

Can you hear Madonna?( the singer not the saint) ''I'm a Material Girl''

Unless you are a kid between say 10 and 16 I doubt that it is about the present. God sells a lot of records and presents nowadays anyway.

But hey I don't celebrate it for the birth of Christ, but I still don't deny that it is a Christian Holiday. Do you think all those pagans in the past were devout to their pagan gods, or do you not think maybe they just wanted a new sheepskin and/or axe, a few meads and a good shag?

As for Easter, even fundamentalist christians don;t try and claim that as being about the birth of Christ.

 

[Qsaint]

Move over Santa, here's Jesus.

A suburban cleric, frustrated at the apparent disappearance of Christ from the Australian notion of Christmas, is exhorting the children of Melbourne to forsake their annual photo opportunity with Santa and get up close with Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

Far from the serenity of his parish at St John's in Brunswick West, the Reverend Howard Langmead is brazenly challenging the Santa monopoly in its commercial heartland - the city centre.

The cleric has taken over part of St Paul's Anglican Cathedral and set up a nativity photo service, where children can get dressed up and be photographed in a life-size nativity setting.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/12/15/1102787145336.html

 

[Weaver]

Beltane is a celtic festival ,not a semitic one.

Most festivals are based on lunar and solar events and these festivals have been celebrated since we lived in caves. Most of the Western Christian ones have piggy-backed onto the symbolism of Germanic / Celtic traditions.

The early Christians weren't dumb, they realised the best way to get people to sign up was to adapt their religion to what people already believed. Who was going to be a Christian if you had to abandon all the Pagan fetivals that enriched your life? Best to continue celebrating them just putting a few Christian streamers and decorations up.

 

[Weaver]

As for Easter, even fundamentalist christians don;t try and claim that as being about the birth of Christ.

Easter is the rebirth festival. The earth is reborn by Spring. The Jews were reborn by the Exodus from Egypt. Jesus was apparantly reborn via his return from the tomb. It is one of the oldest celebrations.

Christmas is the birth of the Sun. Therefore the birth of the Son God. Therefore the birth of Jesus.

 

[funkyfreo]

Move over Santa, here's Jesus.

A suburban cleric, frustrated at the apparent disappearance of Christ from the Australian notion of Christmas, is exhorting the children of Melbourne to forsake their annual photo opportunity with Santa and get up close with Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

Far from the serenity of his parish at St John's in Brunswick West, the Reverend Howard Langmead is brazenly challenging the Santa monopoly in its commercial heartland - the city centre.

The cleric has taken over part of St Paul's Anglican Cathedral and set up a nativity photo service, where children can get dressed up and be photographed in a life-size nativity setting.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/12/15/1102787145336.html

And yet when mme Tausauds do a nativity - the Evanchristicals get all riled up!

 

[funkyfreo]

Easter is the rebirth festival. The earth is reborn by Spring. The Jews were reborn by the Exodus from Egypt. Jesus was apparantly reborn via his return from the tomb. It is one of the oldest celebrations.

Christmas is the birth of the Sun. Therefore the birth of the Son God. Therefore the birth of Jesus.

Thanks for that Weaver - just in case I missed basic religious celebrations 101.

 

[Leper]

Oh and apparently dec 25th is not His Birthday (a bit like the queen I suppose- it happens on the wrong day)

Interesting question. Wouldn't it be 1 January 1AD? If it was 25 Dec what year would it have been, given that (I think) "AD" (ano domini) effectively means after the guy's birth????

I imagine they must have decided on the year numbering some time later anyway. Not like Mary would have gone around to Yassar Arafats's grand^100parents place and said, "hey man, I've just given birth to Jesus and I've never even had a _____. Can we call this year 0001AD so that when the Tigers win their 10th flag it will be 1980?"

I suspect people have been asking this perplexing question since the year dot.

 

[Pessimistic]

I read somewhere that ime zones didn't come about until the invention of railways.

Early 1800's bristol had noon 12mins or so after london but the railways had trouble publishing a legible timetable so they created 'railway time' eventually the victorians adopted GMT as standard for the whole country.

For along time ships in transit tried to make 12onoon the same as the noon or the sun passing overhead. of cours it was a slightly differing time as the ship might move 300 n.miles in that day. the clocks were flogged the appropriate amound and in some cases where there were three watches, or 4 hour shifts twice per day the difference was divided equally - made it failry interesting turning up on time for duty !

Thankfully today they wait until noon moves an hour and then do it in large intervals

 

[Pessimistic]

Interesting question. Wouldn't it be 1 January 1AD? If it was 25 Dec what year would it have been, given that (I think) "AD" (ano domini) effectively means after the guy's birth????

I imagine they must have decided on the year numbering some time later anyway. Not like Mary would have gone around to Yassar Arafats's grand^100parents place and said, "hey man, I've just given birth to Jesus and I've never even had a _____. Can we call this year 0001AD so that when the Tigers win their 10th flag it will be 1980?"

I suspect people have been asking this perplexing question since the year dot.

Closest estimates indicate about 9-10 years out - pretty significant considering he only lives 30plus years

 

[Pessimistic]

Another thing is the story goes he came 'down' because mankind was in aright old pickle and needed saving.

Pity he didn't wait a millenium or two because this century wev'e had 2 world wars, 2 atomic bombs, etc etc and the Jews and the arabs are still at each other's throats even though the rest of us can hardly tell them apart.

Surely he should have come to save us agisn if the original principle was applied - or maybe he's still cheesed off about the cross and the thorny crown. I know I would be.

 

[Leper]

Closest estimates indicate about 9-10 years out

Best news I've had in 10 years - this means that Richmond won the 1990 flag!!!!

Bad luck Eddiewood!

 

[Pantsless]

Boxing day was the day to give presents to friends and the poor.

Boxing Day is when we get all our crap presents, put them in boxes, store them in the cupboard and give them as presents next year.

 

[Leper]

And go to the cricket!

 

[Bombers 2003]

Boxing Day is when we get all our crap presents, put them in boxes, store them in the cupboard and give them as presents next year.

In the british defence forces,the Officers and 'other ranks'change places for the day.

 

[evo]

Another thing is the story goes he came 'down' because mankind was in aright old pickle and needed saving.

Pity he didn't wait a millenium or two because this century wev'e had 2 world wars, 2 atomic bombs, etc etc and the Jews and the arabs are still at each other's throats even though the rest of us can hardly tell them apart.

Surely he should have come to save us agisn if the original principle was applied - or maybe he's still cheesed off about the cross and the thorny crown. I know I would be.

Who knows ,maybe we aint seen nothing yet and the big guy is just waiting for a real debacle till he dains to visit us again.

or maybe I'm just being pessimistic......

 

[Birdy]

It may be called CHRISTmas but the 'true' meaning of the festival is NOT what the various clergy go on about at this time of year (and have as long as I can remember)

It was some kind of pagan festival associated with the shortest daylight day in the Northern hemisphere. The christmas tree, the food, the candles etc all associated with this.

The christians pulled a fast one and rebadged it christmas and now are complaining because a coca cola inspired santa has done the same to them. Saint Nickclaus was a christian so give them that much.

Boxing day was the day to give presents to friends and the poor.

Some of you will know more than me on this but it's a bit galling of the clergy to complain about no nativity scane in melbourne when they have churches in a prime positions - what's wrong with THEM having a nativity scene.

Oh and apparently dec 25th is not His Birthday (a bit like the queen I suppose- it happens on the wrong day)

Pessimistic you godless heretic this has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this board, and that really is an achievement. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, hence the name Christ-mass as you probably only just worked out. It has always been about Jesus, and the absurd attempts by you and the rest of the god haters to hijack Christmas into something of your own making doesn't make it any less so. I suggest you repent now and stop trying to spoil Christmas for everyone else with your politically correct lunacy.

 

[evo]

Godless heretic. Fine work Birdy,you are fast becoming my favourite Bigfooty poster.

Most people here aren't 'godhaters' Birdy you'll find ,they just like to cut through society's hypocrisy via discussion.

The only hyjacking, as you put it, was done by the christians.Just because it's called Christ-mas does not mean it wasn't originally a pagan celebration.

If you don't agree with the assertion provide some evidence.

 

[funkyfreo]

Pessimistic you godless heretic this has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this board, and that really is an achievement. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, hence the name Christ-mass as you probably only just worked out. It has always been about Jesus, and the absurd attempts by you and the rest of the god haters to hijack Christmas into something of your own making doesn't make it any less so. I suggest you repent now and stop trying to spoil Christmas for everyone else with your politically correct lunacy.

Birdy - don't fool yourself - evangelical christianity is totally PC and is the new black.

As athiestic as I am though, even I still acknowledge that it is certainly a Christian based event.

 

[Qsaint]

Pessimistic you godless heretic this has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this board, and that really is an achievement. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, hence the name Christ-mass as you probably only just worked out. It has always been about Jesus, and the absurd attempts by you and the rest of the god haters to hijack Christmas into something of your own making doesn't make it any less so. I suggest you repent now and stop trying to spoil Christmas for everyone else with your politically correct lunacy.

So trees, santa are?