List changes 2006

[Stiffy_18]

very concerning from NC

We seem to get coaches who are into extremes at both ends.

Ayres was very happy to give away the picks for proven talent and Craig is sceptical of trading at any level unless he really has to. Why can't we get a coach that likes the balanced approach. Trading is just as important as drafting but it appears lost on Craigy

People can say what ever they want but Robert Shaw was the best when it came to trading and drafting. We pulled off some fantastic trades during Shaw's time here and we also drafted some great players as well.

 

[Crow-mo]

I've been thinking about this for a while now ... has the list been revived since 2004 or was 2004 an abhoration (ie did a few thing go wrong along the way and the wheels fell off)....

Your record from 2001 is relativly steady improvement (with the exception of 2004):

2001 - 12 wins ....... 8th
2002 - 15 wins ....... 3rd
2003 - 13 wins ....... 6th
2004 - 8 wins ....... 12th
2005 - 17 wins ........ 1st
2006 - 16 wins ........ 2nd

Take 2004 out and its a reasonable consistant form increase. Is the crows recent two years just the continuation of list redevelopment from about 2001
or do you think something more significant happened at the end of 2004 ?

we had an unspeakable injury run in 2004

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

We seem to get coaches who are into extremes at both ends.

Ayres was very happy to give away the picks for proven talent and Craig is sceptical of trading at any level unless he really has to. Why can't we get a coach that likes the balanced approach. Trading is just as important as drafting but it appears lost on Craigy

People can say what ever they want but Robert Shaw was the best when it came to trading and drafting. We pulled off some fantastic trades during Shaw's time here and we also drafted some great players as well.

I can see Craigies point though. Who would you trade?? Excluding the kids, there's not alot there in the 23-28 age group? You would be loath to trade Stiffy or Rutten.

 

[Malibu#27]

I can see Craigies point though. Who would you trade?? Excluding the kids, there's not alot there in the under 23-28 age group? You would be loath to trade Stiffy or Rutten.

Excluding the real young kids - theres 2 on the list I'd have any real interest (ie would seek out as opposed to being happy to grab them if they were offered) - Rutten isn't one of them.

EDIT - make that 3.

 

[Cap]

look I know you're as frustrated as everyone else.

but this we need a huge clear out thing, we can't accept this, is just internet chest thumping, an irrational reaction to a disappointing performance.

the issue isn't with what we have just done, but how we get just a bit better next year.

I never said a huge clear out - but after 2 and 1/2 yrs at the helm I reckon Craigy should have a good idea on who is going to make it

it is identifing players who are not going to add value to the list next year and questioning the worth to the team - its not that difficult

however if an adequate replacement can't be found then they stay on the list

its not and over reaction - its perspective and a process that needs to be undertaken

 

[Mad Dog]

Here's my thoughts on the list.... My biggest concern is the amount of players aged 30 and over - and therefore it's crucial to start managing that IMO.

Also I've advocated Reilly and Biglands being offered as trades. I'm not saying we should trade them - I'm just saying they are the only players out of the "quality" catagory that I would consider trading. They are still in my 22 when injury free.

The "retain - emergency" group just catagorises those who are on the very fringe of selection and are at "first drop" in the event of form or injury issues.

M Ricciuto First 22 - 30+
A McLeod First 22 - 30+
T Edwards First 22 - 30+
S Goodwin First 22 - 30+
N Bassett First 22 - 30+
K McGregor First 22
B Burton First 22
G Johncock First 22
I Perrie First 22
M Doughty First 22
R Shirley First 22
M Mattner First 22
M Bode First 22
B Rutten First 22
J Torney First 22 - 30+
S Thompson First 22
N Bock First 22
B Hudson First 22
S Stevens First 22
N Van Berlo First 22
B Reilly Offer as Trade - but First 22
R Biglands Offer as Trade - but First 22 - Injury complicates age issue
J Porplyzia Retain - emergency
R Douglas Retain - emergency
S Welsh Retain - emergency
K Massie Retain - emergency
I Maric Retain - emergency - will battle for Biglands' spot
J Meesen Retain - emergency - will battle for Biglands' spot
D Pfeiffer Retain - further development required
C Gibson Retain - further development required
B Vince Retain - further development required
C Knights Retain - further development required
J Griffin Retain - further development required
T Hentschel Long term injury - Retain
J Hinge Offer as trade or delist
L Jerico Offer as trade or delist
H Skipworth Offer as trade or delist
A Obst Offer as trade or delist
B Hart Retire - 30+
M Clarke Retire - 30+

 

[Vader]

Several people have listed Alan Obst as a likely delisting, due to his perceived lack of development playing for Centrals this year. Having never seen him play, I have no opinion on him one way or the other.

It is worth remembering that Obst was drafted last year and is thus one year into a two year contract.

If we are to delist him, then he would need to have his contract paid out in full. This would also come out of our Salary Cap (not sure whether it would be the 2006 or 2007 cap though).

It is not impossible to delist a 1st year draftee - Fremantle did it last year with Toby Stribling. They then minimised the salary cap damage by re-drafting him, this time as a rookie.

Adelaide are a thoroughly professional outfit and I'm sure they'll do the right thing by the club. However, this is something which will need to be taken into account when considering Obst as a potential delistee.

 

[Mad Dog]

Several people have listed Alan Obst as a likely delisting, due to his perceived lack of development playing for Centrals this year. Having never seen him play, I have no opinion on him one way or the other.

It is worth remembering that Obst was drafted last year and is thus one year into a two year contract.

If we are to delist him, then he would need to have his contract paid out in full. This would also come out of our Salary Cap (not sure whether it would be the 2006 or 2007 cap though).

It is not impossible to delist a 1st year draftee - Fremantle did it last year with Toby Stribling. They then minimised the salary cap damage by re-drafting him, this time as a rookie.

Adelaide are a thoroughly professional outfit and I'm sure they'll do the right thing by the club. However, this is something which will need to be taken into account when considering Obst as a potential delistee.

Very good point...

 

[Cap]

Nice list maddog however I have some questions

My old mate L Jericho – I know he is not a crowd favorite on Bigfooty but a few things

If he makes the cut this year there are a few things in his favour

1) quick, long kick and strong hands
2) has been told by AFC that he won’t make the forward line and should try and improve in midfield/defense
3) had a midseason injury which the Crows recommended surgery half-way through surgery

these three things indicate to me that AFC are prepared to persist with Jericho

however things going against him

1) lack of football brain
2) Percieved lack of toughness (however if Scott Welsh is not considered soft on this board so how that makes Jericho Soft has me buggered)

I could be wrong here but his Pro’s still outweigh his Con’s considering what AFC is said to be lacking.

Also you have Douglas and Porpyliza as emergency wouldn’t these guys be pushing as first 22 players ?

 

[Mad Dog]

My old mate L Jericho – I know he is not a crowd favorite on Bigfooty but a few things

If he makes the cut this year there are a few things in his favour

......

I could be wrong here but his Pro’s still outweigh his Con’s considering what AFC is said to be lacking.

I still find it hard to get past the last qtr of this year's NAB Cup....but I'm trying.... ......Because I am such a compassionate person - my position on Jericho has softened a tad over the last few weeks - and our lack of fwd line cohesion in the finals makes you wonder if he still might be given one last chance. Trent's demise, and as you say - Welshes patchy application leaves us needing a genuine fast leading forward. Can Roo fill this role ????....Should Jericho be given another crack ?.........maybe he should if we can't trade him..... .....but I agree with your Pros/Cons analysis.

Also you have Douglas and Porpyliza as emergency wouldn’t these guys be pushing as first 22 players ?

yes I think they are just on the fringe of the 22.....and will probably play more games than they miss in 2007...

 

[Alex99]

If Mathew Clarke plays on in 2007 (due to Biglands injury) list management becomes a huge factor. I cannot see Jonathon Griffin being kept around if Mathew Clarke plays on as that will be basically 3 player (Biglands, Hentschel and Griffin) who will not be considered for selection. I understand that a rookie can replace both Trent and Rhett on the list but drafting a rookie who is ready to play is virtually pot luck.

List management is going to be very critical next year.

 

[Cap]

If Mathew Clarke plays on in 2007 (due to Biglands injury) list management becomes a huge factor. I cannot see Jonathon Griffin being kept around if Mathew Clarke plays on as that will be basically 3 player (Biglands, Hentschel and Griffin) who will not be considered for selection. I understand that a rookie can replace both Trent and Rhett on the list but drafting a rookie who is ready to play is virtually pot luck.

List management is going to be very critical next year.

Surely in the end Adelaide have to bite the bullet and just go with Hudson and Maric/Meeson - I realise this is really really risky but in the ned these guys are going to need to step up

 

[Alex99]

Surely in the end Adelaide have to bite the bullet and just go with Hudson and Maric/Meeson - I realise this is really really risky but in the ned these guys are going to need to step up

Sink or swim –

Like your Jericho pro and con analysis there are pro’s and con’s for Mathew Clarke going on as well.

I have confidence that if Clarke walks away and retires Maric/Meesen can step up and develop into consistent AFL players and in the long run we will gain more for them having that experience.

 

[swanfan]

Sink or swim –

Like your Jericho pro and con analysis there are pro’s and con’s for Mathew Clarke going on as well.

I have confidence that if Clarke walks away and retires Maric/Meesen can step up and develop into consistent AFL players and in the long run we will gain more for them having that experience.

I tend to agree, they have to learn and be given the experience some time down the track, why not as soon as possible.

 

[macca23]

I still find it hard to get past the last qtr of this year's NAB Cup....but I'm trying.... ......Because I am such a compassionate person - my position on Jericho has softened a tad over the last few weeks - and our lack of fwd line cohesion in the finals makes you wonder if he still might be given one last chance. Trent's demise, and as you say - Welshes patchy application leaves us needing a genuine fast leading forward. Can Roo fill this role ????....Should Jericho be given another crack ?.........maybe he should if we can't trade him..... .....but I agree with your Pros/Cons analysis.

Don't weaken MD.

First instincts are best instincts.

 

[- PC -]

Surely in the end Adelaide have to bite the bullet and just go with Hudson and Maric/Meeson - I realise this is really really risky but in the ned these guys are going to need to step up

I agree.

Meesen must be pulling himself knowing he has an opportunity.

Yet I read Clarke is '' still deciding'' If he is asked to stay , I , yes me, I would like to see him relgated to 4th ruckman and there for injuries etc.

Cant develop a kid if he isnt getting AFL gametime

 

[Black Douglas]

Don't weaken MD.

First instincts are best instincts.

Agreed.

Jericho was rarely close to being selected this year (even before his shoulder op) and I just don't see what he offers us.

Sure, he has lots of potential, but he doesn't have the toughness or football instincts to make it count.

Does anyone here think any clubs would be interested in Jericho?

 

[Redline]

Agreed.

Jericho was rarely close to being selected this year (even before his shoulder op) and I just don't see what he offers us.

Sure, he has lots of potential, but he doesn't have the toughness or football instincts to make it count.

Does anyone here think any clubs would be interested in Jericho?

They won't be able to trade for him esspecially with his injury, we woudln't give anything up for him so why would anyone else. I would suspect he will get delisted and do a couple of weeks training at another club while they have a look at him and perhaps go in the PSD. I agree with Craigy on one thing we don't have any real trade bait.

 

[bus24]

Jericho was Never going to be selected in 06 after that stinker in the NAB cup.

Reasonable Trade Bait IMHO

 

[Cap]

Don't weaken MD.

First instincts are best instincts.

in the case of the AFC bigfooty board your deatset wrong

don;t get me started on how many players in our first 22 were "delisted" (bock, Doughty, Shirely, Stevens etc etc) by this board and how many duds were made into potential superstars (Aidian Parker)

 

[AndrewJo]

in addition to my other post

we need to make a few big calls for '07

Bock - Permanant CHF - More Mobile that Kmac and better kick the Perrie

Hart - Told Te retire - thanks for the memories mate but its time to go

Skipworth - I put him in the James Gallagher slot - too many players who are similar to really make any impact

Rucks - Time to play 3 next season ? - resting 1 in the forward lines - Biglands and Hudson can take big grabs and kick goals (they only need to ave 1 a week if that)

Roo - its a simple question - are you able to play as a forward and pinch hit in the midfield ? - if not it may be time to hang up the boots

Recruiting a Big Key Forward from the SANFL - do we try and get one of the big SANFL forwards - there is a few of them are they willing and able to be made in to AFL players ?

Welsh - is it time to stand up in a tackle and not be knocked over at the first site of an opposition player ? Will we win a flag with this guy in the team ?

Other small things like delisting Hinge and the Rookies aren't big calls are are pretty much a sure thing

Thats just a few things I would like to have looked at in the next couple of weeks - very important IMO

Recruiting a Big Key Forward from the SANFL - do we try and get one of the big SANFL forwards - there is a few of them are they willing and able to be made in to AFL players ?
Just name 1 please who is not over 28!! I rate Nick Gill but I would not call him big.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I am looking forward to some apologies about Jericho down the track. Just like many had Bock done and dusted only to label him as our CHF hope for next year. Ah, the fickle nature of supporters

 

[Drummond]

I am looking forward to some apologies about Jericho down the track. Just like many had Bock done and dusted only to label him as our CHF hope for next year. Ah, the fickle nature of supporters

Big difference Stiffy. Yes I had written Bock off after 2004, I even sat at the SANFL GF counting the amount of clangers, and sure enough his first 5 disposals were all clangers.

However he had size and he always tried; there was no disputing his intent and desire. With Jericho it’s an entirely different story. He is an athlete; not a footballer, and there is simply no effort. He’s been on the list long enough to show that he deserves to be here, and I don’t think there’s any doubt he’s done nothing to warrant being retained. You’re always one to point out Ladhams’ ability but no willingness to work, well it’s the same situation, except Jericho isn’t as talented and probably cares a little less.

I’d love to be proved wrong, but it’s not going to happen. We might retain him for 2007, but he won't be around in 2008.

 

[macca23]

I am looking forward to some apologies about Jericho down the track. Just like many had Bock done and dusted only to label him as our CHF hope for next year. Ah, the fickle nature of supporters

I don't think so Stiffy - not in Jericho's case.

What has he shown at any level to indicate that he has the necessary courage, physicality, desire and a footy brain to justify your thoughts on this one? His alter ego, Matthew Smith, used to at least bust his guts out, although devoid of the necessary talent.

I'm betting your left testicle that there won't be any apologies in Jericho's case.

Hopefully he won't be at the club after delist time - I've given up on him.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I am looking forward to some apologies about Jericho down the track. Just like many had Bock done and dusted only to label him as our CHF hope for next year. Ah, the fickle nature of supporters

I named Jericho as my player to watch in 06....sure his NAB game (only 1, the others were Ok) ensured his season was gone BUT I still have huge hopes for the kid.....I agree, looking for some apologies during 07