List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Take Hawks in their hey day as a case in point. Franklin and Roughhead to our Charlie and McKay, that's fine. They then had Rioli and Puppolo, Gunston and Bruest. They also rotated Shiel across hf as well as a resting ruckman at times. We are a long way off a fraction of that sort of supporting fire power across HFF and FP's.

Incredible forward line but they also couldn’t end up fitting them in the salary cap.

 

[JuddgementDay]

When did I say this? What the hell have I missed?
Sometimes It’s the bloody twilight zone in here.

You’ve posted that we had no backup for CC & H, but happy to have Esava as backup forward for the Cats

So to you TDK is not a good enough forward backup, and yet Esava is

Anyway, enough of this back & forth - let’s agree to disagree - simples!

 

[Benaly28]

The disrespect towards Fisher on here is remarkable.

Easily had a career best year and there's no reason why he can't improve further.

Clearly in our best side.

Have been banging on about the same,best 18 all day.


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[Benaly28]

With an injury free start to 2023, what position is Fish selected in?

Fwd/Mid rotates through the midfield offers pace then spends time in the forward line at Harry/Charlie’s feet.


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[CJMB]

With an injury free start to 2023, what position is Fish selected in?

High half forward

 

[Coops93]

Fish is so unique to our team, there's no chance he's being dropped. He's a walk up best 22.

He is our best HFF and it's not even close and I'd argue is about our best inside 50 decision maker from around the 50-70m range. He finds angles and targets no one else in the team does, making smart 20m passes on the 45 where everyone else just bombs it. In a team with a dearth of going inside 50 nous and forwards who know how to find space etc. he's invaluable in that respect.

It's always surprising that he's brought up in these discussions. 15-20 touches and a goal a game from a HFF is an excellent return.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Fish is so unique to our team, there's no chance he's being dropped. He's a walk up best 22.

He is our best HFF and it's not even close and I'd argue is about our best inside 50 decision maker from around the 50-70m range. He finds angles and targets no one else in the team does, making smart 20m passes on the 45 where everyone else just bombs it. In a team with a dearth of going inside 50 nous and forwards who know how to find space etc. he's invaluable in that respect.

It's always surprising that he's brought up in these discussions. 15-20 touches and a goal a game from a HFF is an excellent return.

Somewhat of a breakout year for Zac.

Reckon he needs to improve his conversion efficiency.

 

[ETET]

Fish is so unique to our team, there's no chance he's being dropped. He's a walk up best 22.

He is our best HFF and it's not even close and I'd argue is about our best inside 50 decision maker from around the 50-70m range. He finds angles and targets no one else in the team does, making smart 20m passes on the 45 where everyone else just bombs it. In a team with a dearth of going inside 50 nous and forwards who know how to find space etc. he's invaluable in that respect.

It's always surprising that he's brought up in these discussions. 15-20 touches and a goal a game from a HFF is an excellent return.

I like Fisher, the conundrum for me with Fisher is this.

He is quick and crafty and all those things you mention. But, with the game all about forward half turnovers I am often caught wondering if he can stick enough tackles. Not simply apply them for the stat, but actually hold them. I look at the best half forwards and while crafty they also make it like trying to escape an octopus when they tackle.

Then again a few from Geelong (Myers’s) are not great tacklers so maybe I just need to enjoy his strengths. We do need better tackling and maybe as Motlop and Durdin grow they will develop this area.

 

[CJMB]

I like Fisher, the conundrum for me with Fisher is this.

He is quick and crafty and all those things you mention. But, with the game all about forward half turnovers I am often caught wondering if he can stick enough tackles. Not simply apply them for the stat, but actually hold them. I look at the best half forwards and while crafty they also make it like trying to escape an octopus when they tackle.

Then again a few from Geelong (Myers’s) are not great tacklers so maybe I just need to enjoy his strengths. We do need better tackling and maybe as Motlop and Durdin grow they will develop this area.

I see it as Fisher high half forward, Martin as the medium forward for can be a marking option or play smaller, and Durdin and Motlop the genuine smalls; Motlop being more of a goal kicking type and Durdin a bit more of a pressure type.

I think that has a nice balance too it, then you add Harry and Charlie and have a third tall as part of the rotation, who that is probably depends on the ruck and relief ruck options are.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I see it as Fisher high half forward, Martin as the medium forward for can be a marking option or play smaller, and Durdin and Motlop the genuine smalls; Motlop being more of a goal kicking type and Durdin a bit more of a pressure type.

I think that has a nice balance too it, then you add Harry and Charlie and have a third tall as part of the rotation, who that is probably depends on the ruck and relief ruck options are.

JSOS?

Surely, we need a 3rd tall type eg 190+ (what Brackets was meant to be)

 

[Arr0w]

I would shift Gov back to the forward line

 

[CJMB]

JSOS?

Surely, we need a 3rd tall type eg 190+ (what Brackets was meant to be)

Yeah, that’s why I said “…and have a third tall as part of the rotation, who that is probably depends on the ruck and relief ruck options are.”

The obvious combinations are Pitto & TDK, Pitto & Jack or TDK & Jack.


There’s also an option of someone like Kemp being the 3rd and one of Pitto or TDK being the ruck. If we’re looking at playing all of Weiters, Young, Marchy & Gov down back then we’ve got the option of having Young take the relief ruck work down back and in the centre square and Harry take them in the forward half.

I don’t have Jack locked in the 22, but he’s in the running for a 3rd tall role depending on the other players we select.

 

[I bleed Blue]

I would shift Gov back to the forward line

If the stars align and Marchbank is fit, then that could be the move.

Gov is easily our best set shot

 

[Earls Smother]

I see it as Fisher high half forward, Martin as the medium forward for can be a marking option or play smaller, and Durdin and Motlop the genuine smalls; Motlop being more of a goal kicking type and Durdin a bit more of a pressure type.

I think that has a nice balance too it, then you add Harry and Charlie and have a third tall as part of the rotation, who that is probably depends on the ruck and relief ruck options are.

The only problem with that is, we are going with the same combo as this year. I don't think we are entirely happy with that mix.

The fact we played Walsh as a high half forward for a run of games (and Cottrell at times), aligns with the constant theme of lack of outside run. Our running power dries up (every team's does, but relative to the opposition) which leaves us vulnerable later in games. Acres solves one wing but not everything. Does he push O'Brien or Cottrell out, or does Cottrell get pushed forward?

Collingwood's half backs ran all over us late in round 23. So who is vulnerable? It is accepted that Motlop and Durdin are young and still developing their tanks. We obviously want to play Martin when his calf allows us to. Harry and Charlie are a given. So that leaves the rest - Owies, Jack/TDK and Fisher. We aren't happy with the collective running ability and the rumour of Hollands supports that. Leaving Owies out is the easy and common suggestion, but it needs more than that.

The make up of of our forward line will be very interesting in round 1, particularly if we draft a guy whose tank is AFL ready. I can see us playing Charlie, Harry, Martin, TDK (or Jack or Kemp if suits), and then 2 of Fisher, Motlop, Durdin, and one of Cottrell, Cuningham or Hollands (if we get him) for extra running strength. That last group would need to be able to push up into the wing rotations.

 

[katmanblue]

The only problem with that is, we are going with the same combo as this year. I don't think we are entirely happy with that mix.

The fact we played Walsh as a high half forward for a run of games (and Cottrell at times), aligns with the constant theme of lack of outside run. Our running power dries up (every team's does, but relative to the opposition) which leaves us vulnerable later in games. Acres solves one wing but not everything. Does he push O'Brien or Cottrell out, or does Cottrell get pushed forward?

Collingwood's half backs ran all over us late in round 23. So who is vulnerable? It is accepted that Motlop and Durdin are young and still developing their tanks. We obviously want to play Martin when his calf allows us to. Harry and Charlie are a given. So that leaves the rest - Owies, Jack/TDK and Fisher. We aren't happy with the collective running ability and the rumour of Hollands supports that. Leaving Owies out is the easy and common suggestion, but it needs more than that.

The make up of of our forward line will be very interesting in round 1, particularly if we draft a guy whose tank is AFL ready. I can see us playing Charlie, Harry, Martin, TDK (or Jack or Kemp if suits), and then 2 of Fisher, Motlop, Durdin, and one of Cottrell, Cuningham or Hollands (if we get him) for extra running strength. That last group would need to be able to push up into the wing rotations.

I don't mind Cottrell on the half forward line. We need some defensive running there.

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[Coops93]

I like Fisher, the conundrum for me with Fisher is this.

He is quick and crafty and all those things you mention. But, with the game all about forward half turnovers I am often caught wondering if he can stick enough tackles. Not simply apply them for the stat, but actually hold them. I look at the best half forwards and while crafty they also make it like trying to escape an octopus when they tackle.

Then again a few from Geelong (Myers’s) are not great tacklers so maybe I just need to enjoy his strengths. We do need better tackling and maybe as Motlop and Durdin grow they will develop this area.

To counter that point, the best HFFs in the game - Martin and De Goey - offer nothing defensively. Granted Fisher isn't in their realm. He could quite easily be at Miers level.

Pressure is more in the space of small forwards - ala Durdin and Motlop, to your point. I guess Fisher could be classed a small HFF? But like you say Miers would be a good comparison and pressure isn't in his purview either.

 

[Arr0w]

Some players, such as Cripps, stand out no matter the quality of players around him

Many players in lower sides are somewhat underrated and or their output is lower

Those same players in improving sides, start to show their natural levels, delivering on the potential

When a side becomes a contender, at times these sames players become somewhat overrated, but they are certainly interchangeable if a system has been bedded down over a number of seasons

 

[Earls Smother]

I don't mind Cottrell on the half forward line. We need some defensive running there.

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Yeah we can't identify a problem, then pick the same team and expect it to go away. Cottrell and O'Brien are 2 of our best runners. It doesn't make sense for Acres (as a good runner) to come in and push out a good runner. We might be a bit stronger over the ball, but no net gain in running.

There was a common theme with our best football this year. We played unbelievably well against the Dogs, Hawks, Port and Sydney in the first half, and Pies in the third quarter of round 23. Then we completely fell to bits because we ran out of legs and battled to hang on.

Part of the improvement will come from within (another pre-season), but changes to personnel are inevitable, including up forward.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Yeah we can't identify a problem, then pick the same team and expect it to go away. Cottrell and O'Brien are 2 of our best runners. It doesn't make sense for Acres (as a good runner) to come in and push out a good runner. We might be a bit stronger over the ball, but no net gain in running.

I agree, we are better off dropping 1 or 2 small forwards and leave LOB/Cottrell (for ground coverage) along with Acres in next years 22.
There will always be the inevitable injuries for fringe player opportunities.

 

[JustaBattler]

I would shift Gov back to the forward line

Tough one because a fit McGovern would definitely solve a few problems in the forward line- namely set shot kicking and genuine third tall marking target - against this, we would miss his intercepting and kicking ability especially - has the brains to shut down the centering kick and hit a target 40 meters downfield very fast - no one else in the team can do that as well.

If McGovern were to go forward and if Cuningham and Martin were able to get fit and stay on the park - the forward line gets transformed from easy to defend against to a top4 forward line... Tasty!

so I can see why you'd suggest McGovern to forwards ( he could also be a swing man ) ..very talented player unfortunately injury plagued.

raises questions about where to play and how to fit in quite a few other players with forward aspirations : TDK | SOJ | Kemp - and then Fisher | Owies | Durdin | Motlop

Will be fascinating to see how Vss and Co see team structure going forward.

 

[JustaBattler]

Yeah we can't identify a problem, then pick the same team and expect it to go away. Cottrell and O'Brien are 2 of our best runners. It doesn't make sense for Acres (as a good runner) to come in and push out a good runner. We might be a bit stronger over the ball, but no net gain in running.

There was a common theme with our best football this year. We played unbelievably well against the Dogs, Hawks, Port and Sydney in the first half, and Pies in the third quarter of round 23. Then we completely fell to bits because we ran out of legs and battled to hang on.

Part of the improvement will come from within (another pre-season), but changes to personnel are inevitable, including up forward.

Part of the problem in the forwad line - very obvious in the Collingwood loss was the very poor conversion 1-6 in final quarter I think it was- didn't allow for reset in CBB and played into their strength - rebound. The free against SOJ when Cripps marked in front was awful and just one other early 4th conversion - would have sealed the game - everything that could go wrong - did in that final quarter. Best defense is set shot conversion - when you get shots -the midfield got more than enough entries and possessions to the forwards to win that game.

 

[DirkDiggler]

I would shift Gov back to the forward line

Swingman perhaps? Alternate with Jack. Both great utilities

 

[Arr0w]

Tough one because a fit McGovern would definitely solve a few problems in the forward line- namely set shot kicking and genuine third tall marking target - against this, we would miss his intercepting and kicking ability especially - has the brains to shut down the centering kick and hit a target 40 meters downfield very fast - no one else in the team can do that as well.

If McGovern were to go forward and if Cuningham and Martin were able to get fit and stay on the park - the forward line gets transformed from easy to defend against to a top4 forward line... Tasty!

so I can see why you'd suggest McGovern to forwards ( he could also be a swing man ) ..very talented player unfortunately injury plagued.

raises questions about where to play and how to fit in quite a few other players with forward aspirations : TDK | SOJ | Kemp - and then Fisher | Owies | Durdin | Motlop

Will be fascinating to see how Vss and Co see team structure going forward.

Agree, really is based on availability. I think if Marchbank can stay on the park, and Kemp continues to improve (think his best position at the moment is 3rd tall defender), then we have those backline requirements covered.

Think we are missing another dynamic/xfactor type in the forward line, especially another quick, marking option

So the 4 locks for me would be Harry, Charlie, Gov, Martin

You can add and or debate who the other 3 would be to suit those four

 

[Stamos]

very obvious in the Collingwood loss was the very poor conversion 1-6 in final quarter I think it was

0.6

 

[Arr0w]

Swingman perhaps? Alternate with Jack. Both great utilities

Could work, but I prefer a stable backline and a non predictable forwardline

If Gov went forward, Jsos might be the casualty