List Mgmt. List quality 2016 vs 2017

Has our list improved in 2017 vs 2016

  • Much Better

    Votes: 28 24.8%
  • Better

    Votes: 62 54.9%
  • About same

    Votes: 15 13.3%
  • Worse

    Votes: 7 6.2%
  • Much Worse

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .

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Nov 11, 2010
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Ok so trying to look at it completely objectively we lost -

Deledio - A Grade Forward/Midfielder (70%/30%). Excellent disposal and marking. Reoccurring calf injury. Needed to be managed every preseason. Age a factor. Optimistic Career expectancy = 3 years
Vickery - C Grade Forward/Ruck (80%/20%). Good forward who brought the ball to ground but went missing too often. Poor ruck option.
Optimistic Career Expectancy = 6 years

We gained -

Prestia - A Grade Midfielder. Excellent contested ball numbers, meters gained and disposal. Coming off an injury interrupted year.
Optimistic Career expectancy = 8 years
Caddy - B Grade Midfielder/Forward. Excellent Contested ball numbers, endurance and marking. Starved of midfield opportunities.
Optimistic Career expectancy = 8 years

Nankervis - D Grade Ruck. Showed plenty of potential last season but starved of opportunities.

Additionally we gave many of our younger players plenty of game time, found some talent to go forward with and undeniably increased our overall list depth.

Off Field - We gained a new Football Director and Assistant Coaches.


All in all I find it hard for anyone to suggest that we haven't improved. Not only did we strength up the area of the ground where games are won or lost, but we developed our list and administration. I know some people find it hard to be optimist given the amount of times the club has failed and don't want to set themselves up for a fall but this pre-season we definitely improved.
 

theflea

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Feb 16, 2010
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We just dont have the value in our non essential players like Batchelor,Grimes,Edwards,Astbury,Grigg,Houli etc to be able to improve a draft situation.

Its either go for youth at #88 or just take the 3 essential picks + Rookies to try to find gems and try to get some players via FA

The information i would love to see is what we are paying for players like Houli,Grigg,Maric,Hampson,Hunt,Morris,Batchelor,Grimes
these players are role players that would probably not get to another club and shouldnt be getting more than $200k a year so we have the dollars to spend on the top end talent like Martin,Rance,Jack etc whilst still having enough room to consistantly get quality FA coming into the club.

For all of Sydney swans TPP issue's Their role players are on very little coin
Kidding your self if you think role players in best 22 can only get 200k per year. That would be a minimum. Houli, Grigg, Grimes etc would be on ave AFL wage at least. 200k would be for players just out of draftee wages.
 
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theflea

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Disagree.
Nearly every club took a young ruckman most took at least one tall and the only area this draft was short of talls was KPF.

There was a hell of a lot of options in the f/a trade period as well.
IMO we are 4 to 6 genuine talls short on the list depending on how you rate players and the roles they perform. You could also take into account performances to date and the likely need for upgrades.

Heres a list of our talls and their roles.

Astbury kpd - we have him and he makes up the list but reality is we should be looking for better yet he is only one of two who can play kpd AT AFL atm.
Rance kpd - lose him and where are we.There isn't even an average kpd on the list to come in if injury does hit.
Garthwaite - third tall option. at pick 72 who in their right mind would say he will make it odds say he probably won't.
Grimes med/sml defender - Yes he is tall but we rarely play him in the tall role he is more valuable playing on sml/med types. I put him here anyway.

Clearly two KPDS short possibly three and probably a third tall as well.

Riewoldt Kpf - see Rance it is a problem that is mirrored.
Griffiths kpf - very lucky to have survived so long. Has clearly performed way below the required level and enters yr 8.
Elton Kpf - Put him here because this is the last stop for him. yr 6 and like Griffiths done nothing yet we are banking on him making it.
Moore Third tall - A rookie player in yr 2. Surely when looking at our talls they ask what is the likelyhood of them making it.Surely where we take them has to come into it.

One kpf short but it looks more like three. Could do with another third tall fwd as well.

Hampson - well this bloke polarises opinion. Has many short comings and we should be aiming for better.
Maric - should have been delisted and given a job within the club.
Nankervis - Imo a good get but was 3rd 4th string option at his previous club.Gotta prove he can play at the level now.
Soldo - As a rookie i like this as well a long term project ruck should be on everyones list ,what odds of him making it though has to be asked?

Ivan needs to be replaced s0 we need at least one Ruckman. Depending on how you rate Hampson could be two.

Chol - he projects more as a ruck/fwd to me again taken very late and the history says not a lot make it with these type of picks.
We could do with another in development imo.

Two players i would have went hard at hoping to get one Eric MacKenzie and Nathan Brown plus others. For gods sake Lynden Dunn would have at least given us some cover in case of injury and henry schade is a player i like. There was three kpds available to us at pick 29 and i like the look of all of them. Brennan Cox, Harrison Macreadie and Josh Rotham People saying we had no options are making excuses for them, there were a few state league options big Mihocek comes to mind. i dont get it why does every player we take have to be a long term propisition anyway.

Good write up. I was talking about KPP only, not rucks. That aside, as I said good talls and not players like Dunn or Brown. I also think if we did sign up someone like Dunn there would have been massive calls ie we just never learn, still drafting other clubs spuds.
 

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mopsy

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Good write up. I was talking about KPP only, not rucks. That aside, as I said good talls and not players like Dunn or Brown. I also think if we did sign up someone like Dunn there would have been massive calls ie we just never learn, still drafting other clubs spuds.
If the club are worried about supporters then they should go.
We just bailed out of a nd we took three mature players at great cost in nd picks the aim has to be finals next yr.
so why would you leave your year open to derailment at the cost of just one or two injuries. It is madness.we are either aiming for finals or why get Prestia Caddy Nankervis or we should have gone to the nd. IMO either way the lack of afl ready kpps meant we needed to get a few mature kpps in regardless.
Again what is wrong with some cheap short term fixes if you are devoid of options.FFs we dont even have any development kpps to throw in who look remotely like it.

Not sure what is not to like about N Brown and Dunn would have been a massive upgrade on Astbury imo. We need depth and we are not going to get it from kids atm. We need to face reality The talls needs are staggering and we will need to take some mature talls while youngsters we draft develop. That is if we ever draft any. We all know it may take 3 or 4 yrs before a tall even plays a game and up to 6 yrs before they really hit their straps they should be the first ones on ya list not the last.
 
Apr 12, 2015
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EXCELLENT post and 100 per cent correct.
Just amazed people can't se the forest for the trees!
From what i seen our midfield has been our biggest problem. Our defence has been under so much pressure due to that fact and you can add our forward line for the poor delivery. Surely the club knew that and addressed properly for the first time in so many years. Every club is short in most depts ours was our midfield and we addressed it.
If apples were pears they wouldn't be called apples so lets wait and see how things go.
 
Apr 12, 2015
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List quality not output for 2016. Yes on 2016 Caddy has it on Lids easily but overall quality, no way.

Backline is weaker as swing man in Griffiths is now #2 forward thus weaker defence. Also lost bad knees Chaplin.
So by quality you mean how good they look and what they did in the past? Quality to me is what is shown on the field and i would rather have a b grader who performs better on the park than a super aaaa grader that watches from stands and shakes head.
 

TheProwler

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So by quality you mean how good they look and what they did in the past? Quality to me is what is shown on the field and i would rather have a b grader who performs better on the park than a super aaaa grader that watches from stands and shakes head.
Well that's what the thread and OP link was about. You can dismiss a 243 gamer with a rising star, two all Australians and two Jack Dyer medals if you want though.
 

TigerTank

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Slightly worse in the short term is my take, but that's not a criticism. It was a necessary backwards step.
When people talk about list quality, they're talking in terms of likely output presuming no significant injury. In those terms, we are a worse side without a fit Deledio (and to a lesser extent TV).
Of course, we would have been without Deledio in the next couple of years anyway. To my mind the steps taken have been a proactive look towards the future but that doesn't change the fact we are a weaker on-field side at the start of 2017 than was the side which started 2016 having competed in three previous (if unsuccessful) finals campaigns.
 

RememberRoyce

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Dec 15, 2014
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Ok so trying to look at it completely objectively we lost -

Deledio - A Grade Forward/Midfielder (70%/30%). Excellent disposal and marking. Reoccurring calf injury. Needed to be managed every preseason. Age a factor. Optimistic Career expectancy = 3 years
Vickery - C Grade Forward/Ruck (80%/20%). Good forward who brought the ball to ground but went missing too often. Poor ruck option.
Optimistic Career Expectancy = 6 years

We gained -

Prestia - A Grade Midfielder. Excellent contested ball numbers, meters gained and disposal. Coming off an injury interrupted year.
Optimistic Career expectancy = 8 years
Caddy - B Grade Midfielder/Forward. Excellent Contested ball numbers, endurance and marking. Starved of midfield opportunities.
Optimistic Career expectancy = 8 years
Nankervis - D Grade Ruck. Showed plenty of potential last season but starved of opportunities.

Additionally we gave many of our younger players plenty of game time, found some talent to go forward with and undeniably increased our overall list depth.

Off Field - We gained a new Football Director and Assistant Coaches.


All in all I find it hard for anyone to suggest that we haven't improved. Not only did we strength up the area of the ground where games are won or lost, but we developed our list and administration. I know some people find it hard to be optimist given the amount of times the club has failed and don't want to set themselves up for a fall but this pre-season we definitely improved.

Out : Yarran + pick 6

I know..not last year playing list comparison.

But with the Lids r1 pick, the argument would be much stronger.
 

Goldust

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Ok so trying to look at it completely objectively we lost -

Deledio - A Grade Forward/Midfielder (70%/30%). Excellent disposal and marking. Reoccurring calf injury. Needed to be managed every preseason. Age a factor. Optimistic Career expectancy = 3 years
Vickery - C Grade Forward/Ruck (80%/20%). Good forward who brought the ball to ground but went missing too often. Poor ruck option.
Optimistic Career Expectancy = 6 years

We gained -

Prestia - A Grade Midfielder. Excellent contested ball numbers, meters gained and disposal. Coming off an injury interrupted year.
Optimistic Career expectancy = 8 years
Caddy - B Grade Midfielder/Forward. Excellent Contested ball numbers, endurance and marking. Starved of midfield opportunities.
Optimistic Career expectancy = 8 years
Nankervis - D Grade Ruck. Showed plenty of potential last season but starved of opportunities.

Additionally we gave many of our younger players plenty of game time, found some talent to go forward with and undeniably increased our overall list depth.

Off Field - We gained a new Football Director and Assistant Coaches.


All in all I find it hard for anyone to suggest that we haven't improved. Not only did we strength up the area of the ground where games are won or lost, but we developed our list and administration. I know some people find it hard to be optimist given the amount of times the club has failed and don't want to set themselves up for a fall but this pre-season we definitely improved.

HERE'S the thing with Vickery and people saying he's no loss. I am perfectly okay for us to have cut ties with lazy ol' Tyrone, whose poor work ethic and laziness were detriment to the team (that said he wasn't the lone ranger in thta regard ... we have a bunch of players unprepared to get their hands dirty). But anyone who thinks anything other than Tyrone was our second best key forward (and by the length of the Flemington straight) has rocks in their head. The reason he is a major loss is because you look at the queue behind him and you see the enigma Ben Griffiths, who has considerably less good games under his belt than Ty, under the whip and struggling 14 lengths in arrears, followed by a further 20 length gap to Todd Elton, with Callum Moore and Mabior Chol both broken down at the 800m mark after failing to keep up with the pacesetters. I am amazed so many are so convinced that eight years into his career everything is just going to click for Griffiths because Tyrone is out of the way. Griffiths won't be half the footballer Vickery was and even that wasn't that great. As I said, Ty's efforts last year were putrid and I'm happy for him to be gone (bemused we didn't even attempt to find a replacement), but his inability to become what we needed to become speaks volumes of the kid-glove treatment we bestowed upon him and the unwillingness to hold him to account. It's intriguing to read the Ben Lennon thread where the knock on him is his work ethic and attitude and compare the way both he and Vickery have been handled. Lennon has largely been banished to the reserves, while it took an eternity for Tyrone to be demoted (and he didn't have to perform in the resreves the few times he was dropped to bounce right back into the ones). Vickery is a big loss as simply put we have no one even remotely matching his inconsistency.
 

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HERE'S the thing with Vickery and people saying he's no loss. I am perfectly okay for us to have cut ties with lazy ol' Tyrone, whose poor work ethic and laziness were detriment to the team (that said he wasn't the lone ranger in thta regard ... we have a bunch of players unprepared to get their hands dirty). But anyone who thinks anything other than Tyrone was our second best key forward (and by the length of the Flemington straight) has rocks in their head. The reason he is a major loss is because you look at the queue behind him and you see the enigma Ben Griffiths, who has considerably less good games under his belt than Ty, under the whip and struggling 14 lengths in arrears, followed by a further 20 length gap to Todd Elton, with Callum Moore and Mabior Chol both broken down at the 800m mark after failing to keep up with the pacesetters. I am amazed so many are so convinced that eight years into his career everything is just going to click for Griffiths because Tyrone is out of the way. Griffiths won't be half the footballer Vickery was and even that wasn't that great. As I said, Ty's efforts last year were putrid and I'm happy for him to be gone (bemused we didn't even attempt to find a replacement), but his inability to become what we needed to become speaks volumes of the kid-glove treatment we bestowed upon him and the unwillingness to hold him to account. It's intriguing to read the Ben Lennon thread where the knock on him is his work ethic and attitude and compare the way both he and Vickery have been handled. Lennon has largely been banished to the reserves, while it took an eternity for Tyrone to be demoted (and he didn't have to perform in the resreves the few times he was dropped to bounce right back into the ones). Vickery is a big loss as simply put we have no one even remotely matching his inconsistency.


I agree he is a loss for sure, but perhaps a loss we needed to have as he was lazy and it spoke to the team with regards to his lack of intensity etc..

I read the somewhere the other day in his last 30 games he has kicked over 60 goals..

Will be interesting to see how we structure our forwards this year...
 

Neen

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Seriously deluded if anyone thinks we have gone backwards.

OUT

Troy Chaplin - Was cooked. Astbury takes his spot.
Brett Deledio - Champion footballer, but is showing signs of nagging injuries. Can't really replace his class and output. Then again, he was injured for a lot of 2016. Really can't replace Lids.
Ty Vickery - 'nuff said already. Replaced by a bucket of cold chips. Griffiths has gone past him, albeit, a snail would have easily done the same.
Adam Marcon, Liam McBean, Reece McKenzie, Andrew Moore - Replaced by Draft selections.

IN

Josh Caddy - Inside / outside role. Not in the same class as Lids, but the fact he will be consistently on the park next year, we have an extra, classy rotation.
Dion Prestia - Hopefully he plays more footy this year - potential to be an "A Grader" - and expected to become one at the price we paid.

Before moving on - Here's the benefit of the two recruits above - They play a more inside role, and are more than capable of providing a contest around the ball, releasing the 2016 inside mids - Cotchin and Martin. Key here for mine is Cotchin should be an outside player. Martin can do both, but can now spend more time up forward. Caddy / Prestia provide that inside grunt that we didn't replace Tuck / Jackson with. My point being, Cotchin will be a much better player in his more suited role. The onflow effect is strictly outside / receivers - BEllis and Grigg will be a lot more dangerous, as they will have a lot more of the ball.

Toby Nankervis - Second Ruck, giving support up forward. Plenty of opportunity, that no doubt he will grasp rather than kicking the dew like Vickery.

Draft Selections - More speed. Bolton to mature and develop alongside Rioli and Macintosh. Inside mid and a key back. Rookie = more speed.

Bulldogs just won a flag with one key forward who played his best game for the dogs, and a fast midfield. OK they do throw the ball a lot, but they got Sydney when they were cooked anyway.

On field - I'm very happy with the list improvements, and hopefully Dimma and his assistants get their crap together and get us playing finals.
 
Nov 11, 2010
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HERE'S the thing with Vickery and people saying he's no loss. I am perfectly okay for us to have cut ties with lazy ol' Tyrone, whose poor work ethic and laziness were detriment to the team (that said he wasn't the lone ranger in thta regard ... we have a bunch of players unprepared to get their hands dirty). But anyone who thinks anything other than Tyrone was our second best key forward (and by the length of the Flemington straight) has rocks in their head. The reason he is a major loss is because you look at the queue behind him and you see the enigma Ben Griffiths, who has considerably less good games under his belt than Ty, under the whip and struggling 14 lengths in arrears, followed by a further 20 length gap to Todd Elton, with Callum Moore and Mabior Chol both broken down at the 800m mark after failing to keep up with the pacesetters. I am amazed so many are so convinced that eight years into his career everything is just going to click for Griffiths because Tyrone is out of the way. Griffiths won't be half the footballer Vickery was and even that wasn't that great. As I said, Ty's efforts last year were putrid and I'm happy for him to be gone (bemused we didn't even attempt to find a replacement), but his inability to become what we needed to become speaks volumes of the kid-glove treatment we bestowed upon him and the unwillingness to hold him to account. It's intriguing to read the Ben Lennon thread where the knock on him is his work ethic and attitude and compare the way both he and Vickery have been handled. Lennon has largely been banished to the reserves, while it took an eternity for Tyrone to be demoted (and he didn't have to perform in the resreves the few times he was dropped to bounce right back into the ones). Vickery is a big loss as simply put we have no one even remotely matching his inconsistency.

I'm certainly not suggesting that he wasn't a loss though I felt Lloyd became our second best forward last year in the absence of anyone else really. Griffiths has rarely had an opportunity to be a full time forward. He has always been a handle 2nd ruck so he was frequently switching between forward and ruck roles but never settled in either. Vickery was always our deep forward, Jack CHF and Griff playing forward flank/leading up the wings. The players did not see him as their No 1 target so he never got the opportunity to really play close to goal and learn the role.

I feel he will have a much better 2017. He is far more athletic than Vickery, a longer kick, better mark and quicker on the lead. Like any player, he needed to be believed in and given responsibility so he can develop his confidence. This year he will get that.

Vickery is a loss no doubt but I feel that he is a loss that we can more than cover :thumbsu:
 

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theflea

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If the club are worried about supporters then they should go.
We just bailed out of a nd we took three mature players at great cost in nd picks the aim has to be finals next yr.
so why would you leave your year open to derailment at the cost of just one or two injuries. It is madness.we are either aiming for finals or why get Prestia Caddy Nankervis or we should have gone to the nd. IMO either way the lack of afl ready kpps meant we needed to get a few mature kpps in regardless.
Again what is wrong with some cheap short term fixes if you are devoid of options.FFs we dont even have any development kpps to throw in who look remotely like it.

Not sure what is not to like about N Brown and Dunn would have been a massive upgrade on Astbury imo. We need depth and we are not going to get it from kids atm. We need to face reality The talls needs are staggering and we will need to take some mature talls while youngsters we draft develop. That is if we ever draft any. We all know it may take 3 or 4 yrs before a tall even plays a game and up to 6 yrs before they really hit their straps they should be the first ones on ya list not the last.

I agree if they worry about the fans say, just saying what the fans would say. I also have no problem with back up personally, but believe the club are thinking they don't want players with potentially no upside. I disagree both Brown and Dunn are upgrades on Astbury so in the end they wouldn't come to our club just to play VFL footy, so imo that's why they didn't entertain the idea to play with us.
 

Ancient Tiger

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If the club are worried about supporters then they should go.
We just bailed out of a nd we took three mature players at great cost in nd picks the aim has to be finals next yr.
so why would you leave your year open to derailment at the cost of just one or two injuries. It is madness.we are either aiming for finals or why get Prestia Caddy Nankervis or we should have gone to the nd. IMO either way the lack of afl ready kpps meant we needed to get a few mature kpps in regardless.
Again what is wrong with some cheap short term fixes if you are devoid of options.FFs we dont even have any development kpps to throw in who look remotely like it.

Not sure what is not to like about N Brown and Dunn would have been a massive upgrade on Astbury imo. We need depth and we are not going to get it from kids atm. We need to face reality The talls needs are staggering and we will need to take some mature talls while youngsters we draft develop. That is if we ever draft any. We all know it may take 3 or 4 yrs before a tall even plays a game and up to 6 yrs before they really hit their straps they should be the first ones on ya list not the last.
You haven't factored FA/future trades into account though. If we can snag a Lynch and/or a Lever through these methods, suddenly our tall man stocks are almost fixed.
 

Neen

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I agree if they worry about the fans say, just saying what the fans would say. I also have no problem with back up personally, but believe the club are thinking they don't want players with potentially no upside. I disagree both Brown and Dunn are upgrades on Astbury so in the end they wouldn't come to our club just to play VFL footy, so imo that's why they didn't entertain the idea to play with us.

If Astbury can stay fit, he would be adequate support for Rance. The modern game does not involve 3 prong attacks. Darling and Kennedy didn't win a flag and Buddy and Tippet don't always fire. Grimes can play on KPP and smaller forwards. Bachelor needs to find some form, or find a role in the backline. The Dogs just won a flag with one tall, who played his best game for the club at the big dance. Maybe N Brown could have filled a need, but not Dunn. Brown also has a history of injuries. If we picked either, then it would only have been for insurance rather than to play week in week out.
 
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Well that's what the thread and OP link was about. You can dismiss a 243 gamer with a rising star, two all Australians and two Jack Dyer medals if you want though.
Op was talking about the linked article and gave his thoughts on it which opened the way for the rest to discuss where our list is at this year and next. He mentions that he thinks the list is in a better position.
Anyway time will tell who is right and who is wrong i for one don't care what people or i think as long as they perform on the park be it b c d graders whatever.
 
Heading into 2017 we rank:

8th for average age at 23 years 344 days.
11th for average games at 62
13th for average goals with 36
14th for final experience with a total 65 finals games
17th for players to debut with only 6 players yet to debut, Geelong have 14
17th for teenagers with only 5 on the list. Only Saints have fewer.
11th for players from other clubs with 10. Dogs only have 5
18th for players over 30 with just Maric.
9th for players with 100 games with 11, WCE have 19

We are actually in the middle of a rebuild now,

Agree. No-one from the club has used the "R word", but the evidence (kindly provided by _RT_) is pretty clear. To me, at least. We're a year or two into the process.

Having said that, I agree with most that our list has improved on 2015.

The thing is that most AFL lists improve most years. The real question is whether we have improved relative to the opposition, and I don't think we have.
 

Ancient Tiger

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The real question is whether we have improved relative to the opposition, and I don't think we have.
So we haven't improved or list against any club, most clubs or just a few clubs?
I think we've improved our list more than several clubs. I'm not sure that's going to be enough.
 
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TV at his best is a big loss.
TV, at 2016 levels, having gone is a win.

He lost his tiger mojo and wasn't interested in getting it back. Could tear it up at the Hawks. But somehow he never got that application needed.

Griff has been more inconsistent. But he has also torn a few games up. And without TV and with Jack at FF his strengths should be used best. If he can simply play to his strengths he will be a decent to good CHF.

The keys to me whether our forward line will be better are
1) getting the ball in faster and cleaner
2) playing Jack closer to goal
3) having good medium forwards - Dusty, Lennon, Caddy, Cotch, Conca (if fit)
4) having good smalls - Rioli, Cotch, Lambert
5) Having an attacking goal scoring midfield

Most of this is about game style and team structure.
Then it is about some individuals playing well.
I hope/reckon they have worked out that the old style = death by crap footy. So they will attack. We have a potentially very dangerous attacking team. Use it!!
 

Neen

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TV at his best is a big loss.
TV, at 2016 levels, having gone is a win.

He lost his tiger mojo and wasn't interested in getting it back. Could tear it up at the Hawks. But somehow he never got that application needed.

Griff has been more inconsistent. But he has also torn a few games up. And without TV and with Jack at FF his strengths should be used best. If he can simply play to his strengths he will be a decent to good CHF.

The keys to me whether our forward line will be better are
1) getting the ball in faster and cleaner
2) playing Jack closer to goal
3) having good medium forwards - Dusty, Lennon, Caddy, Cotch, Conca (if fit)
4) having good smalls - Rioli, Cotch, Lambert
5) Having an attacking goal scoring midfield

Most of this is about game style and team structure.
Then it is about some individuals playing well.
I hope/reckon they have worked out that the old style = death by crap footy. So they will attack. We have a potentially very dangerous attacking team. Use it!!

Until this year, I rated TV higher, even against most who believed Griff had gone past him. But you are spot on - TV took apart a Dreamtime game, and there was a passage of play when he won the ruck, his second effort was a tackle and his third effort was to receive the handball, sidestep at full pack and then deliver into the forward 50. He had arrived. His game where he dominated was against Collingwood, when the entire team dominated. Since then, his noticeable action included belting Cox in the nose. That's it. Attitude will need a lot of readjustment at the Hawks, but his development went backwards in 2016, mostly due to his attitude and lack of interest. Griffiths looks to have upside, and barring injuries, he could have a good year. I think the coaches know that if they have a fit and firing Griffiths, he would be a much more potent player then Vickery would ever have been.

Just the though of Griffiths taking contested marks around the centre square and bombing to Jack..
 
Until this year, I rated TV higher, even against most who believed Griff had gone past him. But you are spot on - TV took apart a Dreamtime game, and there was a passage of play when he won the ruck, his second effort was a tackle and his third effort was to receive the handball, sidestep at full pack and then deliver into the forward 50. He had arrived. His game where he dominated was against Collingwood, when the entire team dominated. Since then, his noticeable action included belting Cox in the nose. That's it. Attitude will need a lot of readjustment at the Hawks, but his development went backwards in 2016, mostly due to his attitude and lack of interest. Griffiths looks to have upside, and barring injuries, he could have a good year. I think the coaches know that if they have a fit and firing Griffiths, he would be a much more potent player then Vickery would ever have been.

Just the though of Griffiths taking contested marks around the centre square and bombing to Jack..

Agree. But with a caveat. I've seen TV do a range of things that Griff doesn't. At his best TV is everywhere doing a bit of everything. Griff is more of a standard KPF. But TV lost the desire at tigerland. So bugger off. I really thought he could have been a tremendous player. Very disappointed.

If Griff can take the marks and kick it well he is worth the AFL spot. If he does a good ruck relief job and can get involved around the ground excellent. If he can add that defensive, 1% type stuff to his game we have a gem. Right now I will take just doing the basics well. He will become a weapon just leading, taking marks and kicking the ball straight.
 
So we haven't improved or list against any club, most clubs or just a few clubs?
I think we've improved or list more than several clubs. I'm not sure that's going to be enough.

Yep we just can't keep stuffing up draft picks then get into a cycle of trading draft picks to get players in. We did well this year during the trade period but we wont have good years like that every year. If recent history is anything to go by it was a one off.

We've still got massive holes on the list. And we need to keep Dusty.
 
Dec 28, 2007
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Yep we just can't keep stuffing up draft picks then get into a cycle of trading draft picks to get players in. We did well this year during the trade period but we wont have good years like that every year. If recent history is anything to go by it was a one off.

We've still got massive holes on the list. And we need to keep Dusty.
Next year its pretty simple really

* Sign Dusty
* Bring in a good Free Agent (Nat Fyfe would be great but a Jackson trengove will do)
* Luke Hodge !! Now i know i will cop it for this but how good would it be to get him to the club for experience and culture, doesnt have to be as a player but as an assistant coach or anything- We really need this type of person amongst our kids
* Trade 1 of our 1st rounders on a gun kid from GWS or Peter Wright would be great
*Clean out dead wood like Hunt,Morris,Broad,Maric,Elton
 
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