Make or break year...

[Tyrone Time]

Speaking of t1ts, Timmy O is a bust!

 

[burner1]

You'd think willsmore, TOB, JOR, heatherly, hendo and even miles & Hardwick would want to show something at afl level this year or they risk being moved on. Langford would want to find some form as well or some youngsters may move past him.

Some may have draft currency (TOB, Langford) which could be a factor as we don't have many picks this year.

However it's a tough side to break into. A lot may depend on if the connors come on and who we can pick up in FA.

 

[Wandering Hawk]

Hartung would want a decent year. Hill's spot is his to grab or lose now. If he doesn't claim it over Henderson, O Rourke, Stewart or if we wind up selecting a decent wingman as a free agent then his ticket is stamped as he offers little elsewhere.

Langford has proven previously too good to be in danger. Guy is a tackle machine with good pace and a tank well used to afl. If you needed a depth mid he's pretty much a lock even if he doesn't recapture old form.

O Rourke similarly to Hartung would want to improve a lot or he'll get passed by the kids and possibly delisted. Hartung and O Rourke are clearly our weakest two mids if we were looking to delist. Fortunately for them we probably have enough retirees at the end of the year, plus lower value questionables like Surman and Miles, that we may bear with them one more season even if they don't make the cut.

 

[Happy_Hawker]

Langford and Shoenmakers for mine. I think their contracts expire at the end of the year. I think they could play roles in the side but if they don't, then they're out. Hartung and Tim O'Brien's make or break year is next year. Cheap depth at worse and still some development left.

 

[Wandering Hawk]

Langford and Shoenmakers for mine. I think their contracts expire at the end of the year. I think they could play roles in the side but if they don't, then they're out. Hartung and Tim O'Brien's make or break year is next year. Cheap depth at worse and still some development left.

Langford is contracted to the end of 2019. Otherwise agree.

 

[Happy_Hawker]

Langford is contracted to the end of 2019.

His manager deserves a raise.

Let's hope he can step up in that case.

 

[Wandering Hawk]

Langford is a solid depth player. He'll be useful, especially if one or both of ORourke or Hartung fails, or if Whitecross fails to keep his recent form.

JOM, TOM, Shiels
Smith, Henderson?, Whitecross
7th spot

Hartung, JOR, Langford
(Hodge)
Stewart, Lovell

You need to field seven per game. He's struggling for a spot this year, but once we move on one or both of JOR/Hartung and Hodge retires then Langford is excellent and necessary 8-9th man depth. Allows us to soak two injuries or form dropoffs and still have a hardened fit inside mid available. Is likely a one club soldier so may then sign again further on minimum chips. Alternatively he steps back up into the 22 on good form. At least he has enough time that we won't die wondering. Solid C+/B+ role player.

Imho both Hartung and JOR won't make it, and with contracts expiring this year they will likely go, (plus minus schoenmakers miles and willsmore). Langford even if out of form will thus be considered depth as there is only him, Stewart, and Lovell in 2018 competing for the seventh spot, which leaves a depth of two. He has far more legs than them in a youth filled team with premium need for bench space to rest developing youth.

The situation would only get really grim for him if both Lovell and Stewart make it in spades, or if we can get another star mid as a free agent, or if we start moving other players into the midfield from our crowded forward and backlines - if Howe or Burton or Burgoyne move to the midfield then he's likely not getting a game in 2018 on current form.

His other hope is that Henderson doesn't play as a wing but stays in the back line, and that the wing is then filled by Hartung/ORourke/Stewart, reducing his competition by one for the seventh spot. As Whitecross, Henderson, and Smith are 28, his long term hope is that the need for a next generation of wing positions remove Stewart/Hartung/ORourke from competing with him for a sixth or seventh midfield spot, whilst the age of Puopolo and Rioli will open up at least one small mid forward role to further remove his competition and thus justify his long term retention as depth.

The Hawks would be bonkers to delist him at present.

 

[Roughies Boys]

I'm confused, I can't tell which one is yes and which one is no

When you nod your head yes, but you wanna say no. - JB has got it.

 

[Roughies Boys]

Lovell will smash it this year, Poppy is not young we keep Hardwick for aslong as we can.

 

[Cyrilyouchampion]

#freetitshawthorn

GOLD!!!!!!

 

[PowerForGood]

By the way I did a search of "yes or no Australia" to add to the post, it came up with this...

Sorry...

Thought the OP should get onto page 2, just in case anyone comes into this thread at the end and doesn't know what the topic of conversation is - got to stay on topic.

 

[tige19]

Tim O'Brien

He is way behind in the key forward pecking order. Unless the club has plans to play him in defense I just don't see him playing many games this year.

Play *any

 

[flinchfree]

Play *any

I've been hoping Heatherly would come on, but his improvement year to year has been incremental not substantial. No longer a big believer he will make it.
I think TOB could yet be Gibbo's replacement for third big man / floating defender.
Not sure why his hands aren't better, he looks right going for it but they just don't stick.....?
Any injuries this season to the older guys in the backline (Gibbo/Frawley/Birchall) and he's as good a shot for mine as Brand to get games.
I reckon 6-8 games this year with his papers stamped one way or the other by end of 2017.

 

[tige19]

I've been hoping Heatherly would come on, but his improvement year to year has been incremental not substantial. No longer a big believer he will make it.
I think TOB could yet be Gibbo's replacement for third big man / floating defender.
Not sure why his hands aren't better, he looks right going for it but they just don't stick.....?
Any injuries this season to the older guys in the backline (Gibbo/Frawley/Birchall) and he's as good a shot for mine as Brand to get games.
I reckon 6-8 games this year with his papers stamped one way or the other by end of 2017.

I don't think TOB has a bees dick hope in hell of becoming a Gibbo type iron fist floating defender and I will tell you why - Gibbo at his best (and he still does it to a good level) could read the flight of the ball extremely well and forward predict ball movement as the opposition rebounded out of defence, he peels off his man and almost every time hits the pack at full tilt at just the right time to impact the contest. The role Gibbo plays is almost an art form, your knowledge of how the opposition plays, the strengths of the oppositions individuals by foot and the timing required to get it right require elite intelligence. This leads me to TOB, watch him closely, his leading patterns and the way he covers the ground is inept, he has absolutely no idea where the footy is going, he doesn't know how to get to the footy and in turn when does arrive at a contest he doesn't duke the footy because his timing is off, he hits the pack late and his elevation is all over the shop.

I give TOB this, he has the athletic make up and ability to be a very good footballer, what he doesn't have is any iota of idea of the flow of the game, he is like a deer in headlights at both state level and AFL level. The Gibbo role would be better served to a guy who has natural instincts and natural knowledge of the game, someone who can read the play and predict where the footy is going. Someone like James Sicily is suited to that role, he also has better disposal and a more penetrating kick.

If there is any hope for TOB it is to give him a shut down defenders role on a 3rd tall, sending him to a guy like Cramieri or Darling and say to him that his only job is to shut them down, perhaps he could master that?

 

[mustang]

Schoenmakers! Roughead, Gunston & Sicily have gone past him, so will Vickery I hope, as may Burton if he's played as a forward. I wince at the thought of Schoey playing in the backline but we're light on KPD depth with Gibson's retirement looming so that may save him if he has another bad year.

Another player who needs to step up is O'Rourke, although like O'Brien he's still fairly young as are the rest of the guys who are borderline best 22. Whitecross may be an exception to that but was recently given an extension. Langford is another I think is pretty safe given our lack of mature inside mid depth.

Could TOB be played as a winger in the old Hawks player Andrew Gowers type if he worked on his stamina. Seeing Andrew is at the club on the board.

 

[Thaihawk]

Just a brief offering from afar:

First. We don't need Gibbo's replacement to play a stereotype Gibson type game. However, we do need someone to step into his place in the team when the time comes.

Second, I believe with Jaeger, Mitchell and Ty added to the team this year, our future, this year, and into the future is firmly in the hands of who, and how many of our youngsters - and those in the 2-4 year bracket - can take the next step, and become consistently A grade performers to cover the loss of our elder statesmen.

If no one can take this step we will have difficulty keeping up with the pace setters, but of 2 or more can, then we will be challenging for some time to come. I reckon these players know who they are, too.

 

[flinchfree]

I don't think TOB has a bees dick hope in hell of becoming a Gibbo type iron fist floating defender and I will tell you why - Gibbo at his best (and he still does it to a good level) could read the flight of the ball extremely well and forward predict ball movement as the opposition rebounded out of defence, he peels off his man and almost every time hits the pack at full tilt at just the right time to impact the contest. The role Gibbo plays is almost an art form, your knowledge of how the opposition plays, the strengths of the oppositions individuals by foot and the timing required to get it right require elite intelligence. This leads me to TOB, watch him closely, his leading patterns and the way he covers the ground is inept, he has absolutely no idea where the footy is going, he doesn't know how to get to the footy and in turn when does arrive at a contest he doesn't duke the footy because his timing is off, he hits the pack late and his elevation is all over the shop.

I give TOB this, he has the athletic make up and ability to be a very good footballer, what he doesn't have is any iota of idea of the flow of the game, he is like a deer in headlights at both state level and AFL level. The Gibbo role would be better served to a guy who has natural instincts and natural knowledge of the game, someone who can read the play and predict where the footy is going. Someone like James Sicily is suited to that role, he also has better disposal and a more penetrating kick.

If there is any hope for TOB it is to give him a shut down defenders role on a 3rd tall, sending him to a guy like Cramieri or Darling and say to him that his only job is to shut them down, perhaps he could master that?

Love your read of the kid.
I guess I picture him being a hybrid type at the role, not a savant like Gibson.
He's the kind of back I see being taken to the contest by his opponent and then using his physical gifts to get off the ground regardless of what his opponent is doing and impact the contest.
Definitely needs to learn the art, but he is so genetically gifted I could see it working if the lights went on......

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I don't think TOB has a bees dick hope in hell of becoming a Gibbo type iron fist floating defender and I will tell you why - Gibbo at his best (and he still does it to a good level) could read the flight of the ball extremely well and forward predict ball movement as the opposition rebounded out of defence, he peels off his man and almost every time hits the pack at full tilt at just the right time to impact the contest. The role Gibbo plays is almost an art form, your knowledge of how the opposition plays, the strengths of the oppositions individuals by foot and the timing required to get it right require elite intelligence. This leads me to TOB, watch him closely, his leading patterns and the way he covers the ground is inept, he has absolutely no idea where the footy is going, he doesn't know how to get to the footy and in turn when does arrive at a contest he doesn't duke the footy because his timing is off, he hits the pack late and his elevation is all over the shop.

I give TOB this, he has the athletic make up and ability to be a very good footballer, what he doesn't have is any iota of idea of the flow of the game, he is like a deer in headlights at both state level and AFL level. The Gibbo role would be better served to a guy who has natural instincts and natural knowledge of the game, someone who can read the play and predict where the footy is going. Someone like James Sicily is suited to that role, he also has better disposal and a more penetrating kick.

If there is any hope for TOB it is to give him a shut down defenders role on a 3rd tall, sending him to a guy like Cramieri or Darling and say to him that his only job is to shut them down, perhaps he could master that?

Great write-up. I see Stratts as the guy for the role you propose though. For mine TOB just lacks the footy smarts and it's very hard to teach that.

 

[tige19]

Love your read of the kid.
I guess I picture him being a hybrid type at the role, not a savant like Gibson.
He's the kind of back I see being taken to the contest by his opponent and then using his physical gifts to get off the ground regardless of what his opponent is doing and impact the contest.
Definitely needs to learn the art, but he is so genetically gifted I could see it working if the lights went on......

Some kids are good at maths, others at English.. you need to be good at maths and English to play Gibbos role if you get me? TOB is barely getting through his ABC at the elite level.

 

[tige19]

Great write-up. I see Stratts as the guy for the role you propose though. For mine TOB just lacks the footy smarts and it's very hard to teach that.

Stratts is perfect, he has uber amounts of courage to.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Some kids are good at maths, others at English.. you need to be good at maths and English to play Gibbos role if you get me? TOB is barely getting through his ABC at the elite level.

He's just slipping back each year in the pecking order.

If you want a key forward he's now behind Rough, Vickery, Schoey and even Fitzpatrick.

If you want a third tall type he's now behind Gunston, Schoey, Sicily and Burton.

* Schoey plays both.

 

[flinchfree]

He's just slipping back each year in the pecking order.

If you want a key forward he's now behind Rough, Vickery, Schoey and even Fitzpatrick.

If you want a third tall type he's now behind Gunston, Schoey, Sicily and Burton.

* Schoey plays both.

Ouch.
I guess if he never felt urgency before, he'd be noticing a certain tightening in the nuts area and seeing his Hawthorn window with two bloody big hands pushing down on the sash.
Better learn to tuck and roll kid and back yourself to fold jack knife style through the opening.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

With the pre-seaon done, Miles and Stewart definitely have removed themselves from anyone's list, Langers and Schoey have shown a bit, but TOB, Hartung, Willsmore and JOR will keep the knives sharpened...

 

[cryptor]

I'll preface by saying I haven't bothered to check up on contract expiration dates as that would be a major factor, so not factoring that...

If I were any of the following players and I hadn't made some serious improvements this year then I'd be pretty nervous when it came to my end of season review with Clarko & Co....

- Billy Hartung
- Brendan Whitecross
- Jono O'Rourke
- Daniel Howe
- Dallas Willsmore
- Tim O'Brien
- Ryan Schoenmakers
- Will Langford
- Teia Miles

Whitecross, Schoenmakers and Langford are some older players who should really be cementing themselves as best 22 this year. If they don't have good years then they may be invited to shop themselves around to help us free up some more cap space as while they wouldn't be on big money they would certainly be on reasonably more than a new draftee would get.

Hartung, Howe, O'Rourke and O'Brien are still young but at the age where they should be really making a claim for a spot in the seniors most weeks. They've all shown glimpses of elite level attributes at different points. They need to take the next step soon otherwise they'll just be clogging the list and taking development opportunities away from the likes of Hardwick, Lovell, Stewart and the new draftees.

Miles and Willsmore have been on the list for a few years now but have yet to debut. They've stuck around this long despite that so there's obviously something the coaching staff see in them. But unless you're key position size with midfielder agility I'd say your chances of sticking around much longer are grim. Miles has been good in JLT but he'll need to prove himself when the heat is on and there's true competition for spots.

 

[threesixpio]

Just a brief offering from afar:

First. We don't need Gibbo's replacement to play a stereotype Gibson type game. However, we do need someone to step into his place in the team when the time comes.

Second, I believe with Jaeger, Mitchell and Ty added to the team this year, our future, this year, and into the future is firmly in the hands of who, and how many of our youngsters - and those in the 2-4 year bracket - can take the next step, and become consistently A grade performers to cover the loss of our elder statesmen.

If no one can take this step we will have difficulty keeping up with the pace setters, but of 2 or more can, then we will be challenging for some time to come. I reckon these players know who they are, too.

Good post. Agree