Moore and Freeman - time is not for conservative selection

[ClaytonM]

Pendlebury, Beams, Thomas, Cloke all came in and played in there first years, most 10+ games and they turned out alright.

This current mind set the football club seems to be have of VFL first is not working.

They talked up Freeman all preseason, he should have been in Rd1.

So did Jackson Payne and Peter Yagmoor and that didn't work out so good. There are plenty of games to get 10+ games in to all of them. A few games in the VFL want kill any of them.

 

[Pendles!]

The insinuation that playing Freeman and Moore would be gifting the games is funny. Their form has been excellent for last few weeks.
If anyone is being gifted games, it would be incumbents like Goldsack and Varcoe.

Yeah, its been great in VFL practice games. Not even actual VFL games!!

 

[Pendles!]

So did Jackson Payne and Peter Yagmoor and that didn't work out so good. There are plenty of games to get 10+ games in to all of them. A few games in the VFL want kill any of them.

Yep, look at Sydney/Hawthorn and how they make their youngsters earn it in the twos. But why would we wanna be like them??

 

[cleomenes]

It would be a mistake to charge into a youth first policy just now. We have some weak opponents coming up, and conservative team selection makes perfect sense. We are in a position of just trying to scrape some wins, so that there is something to hope for when the side strengthens up later in the year (injuries permitting). It is certainly not the time to throw the toys out of the cot.

 

[jackcass]

Geelong (when they were good), Hawthorn and Sydney never gifted games to kids so why should we?

If they've earned a game through repeated good performances at VFL level, and they are capable of running out a full senior game, then pick them if we have a need for their type in the seniors.

Win first, develop second, because you'll find that winning games is actually the best form of development for a club trying to improve.

Freeman has been among the bests in his last 2 games so it's hardly "gifting" him a game.

Need to also consider the opposition. St Kilda this week likely a better debut opponent than the Bumbers, Blues or Cats who we meet over the following 3 rounds.

Moore, I agree. Interrupted preseason and more VFL time is needed even though his form last week was very good.

 

[DNine]

The worst thing about not picking these kids, is that they would actually do better than seasoned players. I don't know what Goldsack is on, but it isn't doing it for him. FFS, he is just an average footballer, and we should of off loaded him when we had the chance.

Last year, he was getting raved about, and he wouldn't do much, but he would be manic at the tackle a couple of times, and fans thought he was great for it. Just so not great Goldsack. Probably the most over rated player in our side at the moment. Karnezis would be a mile better option.

Nathan Brown, he is sooooooo slow. Can ONLY play him on a gorilla. If they can run around, FORGET IT. Poor Frosty had to take the number one job, because the seasoned Brown and number 10 pick I might add, was hopeless. Moore would do more than Brown on one leg.

Fasolo, preseason warrior. Thinks too much of himself that bloke. All talk no action. Sick of getting a false sense of hope with this guy. DeGoey makes Fas look like a VAFA player.

Toovey, actually does well against his opponent, but could not hit the side of a barn to save himself. You would think being a seasoned player, he would know how to kick the thing. Only good thing Toovey does, is keeps Sharenbergs position warm. Marsh would be probably as good as Toovey I reckon, and you would understand poor kicking from a kid.

Williams, see Toovey, needs to get a reality check. He needs to earn the spot. Armstrong is better by foot. Prefer to see Williams get the message to be honest.

The older players are suppose to stand up. Never mind bagging White, and fans were wrong about Blair, as they have done alright in comparison to the above. Seriously, if they don't change soon, I would be looking at Delisting.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Great that kicking skill is the only criteria we should be selecting on. Getting the ball in the first place and stopping an opponent are just useless.

 

[Robroy22]

Yep, look at Sydney/Hawthorn and how they make their youngsters earn it in the twos. But why would we wanna be like them??

How many did Heeney play in the two's? And for the life of me....I can't remember the last YOUNG player the Swans generated? They recycle really well....but their gun kids play straight away. And the Hawkers? Gee let me see who do you actually refer to as these youngsters that get schooled in the two's before they get a game? Cyril didn't, Buddy nup....Roughie, Hill, Hodge, Lewis....unless you mean the backup players like Whitecross and Sicily, Duryea perhaps....those guys only get games when one of their starters is injured or retires.

Gun kids get games at every club. Ours will too soon.

 

[jackcass]

It would be a mistake to charge into a youth first policy just now. We have some weak opponents coming up, and conservative team selection makes perfect sense. We are in a position of just trying to scrape some wins, so that there is something to hope for when the side strengthens up later in the year (injuries permitting). It is certainly not the time to throw the toys out of the cot.

I for 1 aren't advocating a youth first selection policy. Freeman though is a 2nd year player, trained strongly enough through the end of the 2014 season for there to be suggestions of VFL games late, has had an extremely solid preseason culminating in 2x excellent VFL games. I think he was BOG last weekend. I think he's ready. Totally different case to Moore.

 

[Bard]

I for 1 aren't advocating a youth first selection policy. Freeman though is a 2nd year player, trained strongly enough through the end of the 2014 season for there to be suggestions of VFL games late, has had an extremely solid preseason culminating in 2x excellent VFL games. I think he was BOG last weekend. I think he's ready. Totally different case to Moore.

We'll see Freeman soon enough

If it was round 20 I could understand some of the panic setting in... But round 3? Come on guys! Your heads will explode before the bye at this rate!

 

[jackcass]

We'll see Freeman soon enough

If it was round 20 I could understand some of the panic setting in... But round 3? Come on guys! Your heads will explode before the bye at this rate!

Not panic, just expressing a preference. How is it that those advocating patience are suddenly the voice of reason and those lamenting Freeman's non inclusion are panicking?

 

[Bard]

Not panic, just expressing a preference. How is it that those advocating patience are suddenly the voice of reason and those lamenting Freeman's non inclusion are panicking?

I wasn't so much referring to you as this board as a whole. Its gone crazy the last two days.

I just have an obsession with quoting the latest relevant post :O

 

[DWil6]

Hope freeman continues to improve. Hasn't set the world on fire. I'm not sold on him yet but I'm hopeful. I don't mind seeing him get a few more VFL games.
Much more buoyant on Moore. Just gets involved and shows passion at every turn.


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[Pendles!]

How many did Heeney play in the two's? And for the life of me....I can't remember the last YOUNG player the Swans generated? They recycle really well....but their gun kids play straight away. And the Hawkers? Gee let me see who do you actually refer to as these youngsters that get schooled in the two's before they get a game? Cyril didn't, Buddy nup....Roughie, Hill, Hodge, Lewis....unless you mean the backup players like Whitecross and Sicily, Duryea perhaps....those guys only get games when one of their starters is injured or retires.

Gun kids get games at every club. Ours will too soon.

Sydney - Parker, Jack, Hanneberry, Doing it with Mitchell and there's probably others. They certainly don't play their gun kids straight away, they're well known for making them earn it.

Hawthorn - Anderson, hartung Langford, Duryea and Hill was made the sub a lot and then played VFL in his first season. Hawthorn a little less so.

In any case, Freeman, Moore and Degoey are all effectively first year players so nothing wrong with letting them get a feel of senior footy first....

 

[Pendles!]

I for 1 aren't advocating a youth first selection policy. Freeman though is a 2nd year player, trained strongly enough through the end of the 2014 season for there to be suggestions of VFL games late, has had an extremely solid preseason culminating in 2x excellent VFL games. I think he was BOG last weekend. I think he's ready. Totally different case to Moore.

Freeman has played a grand total of 5 practice games in 18 months. You can make your case but thts the facts. Have you seen him in the VFL practice games and the Nab cup? He hasn't shown anything to show he's ready..

 

[PieNSauce]

Keep playing the best team. Don't see what has massively changed from this time last year when we eventually ended up 9-2 before it all going down the gurgler. I think we should be targetting the top 8, whilst still playing the kids, but no need to flick the switch to all kids, already playing a lot. Would be good to phase them in over the year as they are ready.

I don't disagree with the core premise but I think you'll find that the side we are fielding now is quite different to the one which took the field in rounds 1-8 last year. Admittedly even that side looked fairly short on experience but we did have a reasonable core of experienced midfield players then whilst we now have a fairly thin midfield group to choose from and if Pendles is not fit that gets even more difficult. Just the same, the tactic of picking your best side is naturally enough the correct one. It's just a question of what that actually looks like in the current circumstances.

 

[DoubleDraw7710]

Play the kids. I would rather that than gifting games to ex-premiership players.

 

[PieNSauce]

Play the kids. I would rather that than gifting games to ex-premiership players.

Personally I would rather gift games to proven performers than premiership points to opponents. Not that I disagree with playing the kids but only in a balanced way and not all in one go.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Goldsack and Blair are the 2 players that have been gifted games because of being premiership players.

I will say at least Blair is producing football worthy of being a best 22 player.

Goldsack on the other hand is going backwards at a rate of knots.
He fumbles the ball at nearly every occasion, provides no offensive work up forward, i just cannot fathom how he is getting a game.

If Freeman is going to do a hammy, he will do it in the VFL or AFL. Play him, he offers the outside run we desperately need. If he runs out of gas, sub him late in the game.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Goldsack and Blair are the 2 players that have been gifted games because of being premiership players.

I will say at least Blair is producing football worthy of being a best 22 player.

Goldsack on the other hand is going backwards at a rate of knots.
He fumbles the ball at nearly every occasion, provides no offensive work up forward, i just cannot fathom how he is getting a game.

If Freeman is going to do a hammy, he will do it in the VFL or AFL. Play him, he offers the outside run we desperately need. If he runs out of gas, sub him late in the game.

So let me see if I understand you properly.

You think the selection committee in 2015 are selecting players today, based on what they did in the Grand Final in 2010?
And further, this policy is the reason our 1st and 2nd year kids are not being played

Have I got that right?

 

[Unknown Identity]

So let me see if I understand you properly.

You think the selection committee in 2015 are selecting players today, based on what they did in the Grand Final in 2010?
And further, this policy is the reason our 1st and 2nd year kids are not being played

Have I got that right?

Goldsack's form over the past 2 years has been awful, it's plain to see for every fan he offers the team very little.

It was obviously hyperbole to suggest the committee select him based on being a premiership player, i was only trying to make a point outside of being a premiership player for Collingwood, his output doesn't warrant his selection.

Every 3rd or 4th game he will run down someone and his defensive efforts will be praised.

I would prefer to see players like Freeman, DeGoey, Kennedy get games ahead of players like this.

 

[DWil6]

Clearly Goldsack is a utility that has a role in the match committee's thinking. Otherwise he wouldn't be getting a game based on the premise that he's been 'awful' for 2 years!


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[Hardas]

I think Freeman should be playing. He is a big part of our future midfield and has already lost a development year. His body is clearly big enough and endurance is a strong suit of his, so running out games shouldn't be an issue after a couple of weeks bedding in.

I would accept the arguments against his selection if the guys picked instead of him were playing very well but they are not, and that's the problem. We may get C grade performances from him and C+ from the older guy and if we were in premiership mode that would reason enough to pick the established bloke. If we are not though (we clearly aren't), I'd take the C I it means Freeman has a chance to get to B+ or A more quickly, over the player with less potential still churning out C+ performances in 18 months. If you play him and he struggles, send him back to the VFL and try again in a few weeks. You honestly don't know how players will respond to the step up and he might just be the type to raise his game. If his VFL performances say he is "ready" in Round 20, I don't want him debuting then. He could be a 15 game player by then and won't be any less ready by having 14 games of senior experience. The kid needs games and moreover, we need him to get games.

Well put.
Freeman would have to be a good chance to replace the likes of Varcoe soon the way things look. Having said that, it was reported recently that he got an almighty bake from a VFL coach for not following team instructions - you wouldn't expect him to be immediately rewarded with a debut then, would you?

 

[unplugged]

People need to remember that Freeman still hasn't played a meaningful game (worth 4 points) of VFL or AFL yet! Just be patient

 

[PieNSauce]

Clearly Goldsack is a utility that has a role in the match committee's thinking. Otherwise he wouldn't be getting a game based on the premise that he's been 'awful' for 2 years!


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Precisely! The bolded bit being the key. Without having an ability to understand the precise roles that the match committee see as intrinsic to their game plan I find it difficult to understand how anybody can make the call that someone brings nothing to the team. I think it's a bit more scientific than whether or not he personally kicks goals or gets 30 possession or has perfect disposal. Of course we are all entitled to an opinion and I have no problem with it but it does make it hard to take some of them seriously unless the poster has some significant inside knowledge.