Nathan Buckley's playing stats

[Knightmare]

Interesting. The biggest knock haters have on Buckley is that he didn’t win his own ball...your stats reconfirm the counter argument though. You want your best and most effective kick receiving the ball.

Probably the biggest issue people have with Buckley though is his personality, this bias tends to impact their judgment of him as a player. I think the fact that his players clear play for him indicates that behind closed doors he’s actually not such a bad bloke.

Buckley had 200+ contested possessions, 100+ clearances each year during his prime (2003 and earlier). The only year he was below 100 clearances (94 clearances) in 2002. Those are still fairly strong numbers. His numbers by comparison to Voss and Hird who were considered by many the other greats from that time don't compare favourably to Buckley in either category. *Clearance stats were first recorded in 1998, contested possessions in 1999.
Looking at contested possession seasons of 200+:
Buckley: 5
Voss: 3
Hird: 2

Clearance seasons 100+:
Buckley: 5
Voss: 4
Hird: 0

So Buckley could be seen in both category as above his peers, though in Hird's defence, though for balance, Hird played more forward than either Buckley or Voss which is reflected by his lower clearance numbers.

*As a comparison to today. Stoppage numbers were lower 1998-2007 than we have today and as a result contested possession and clearance numbers of the players during those times will as a result be lower. And that will result on reflection to some viewing a Buckley as possibly being more outside than some modern players, which is an inaccuracy of analysis. Every play outside the contest felt like it went through Buckley, so he wasn't someone who only got it done at stoppages, but even often copping the tag or a run-with, he was still very capable as a genuine ball winner.

So the argument that Buckley couldn't win his own ball can't really be made.

Buckley wasn't the contested ball winning king during his time by any means. Scott West as a top of mind example had higher contested ball and clearance numbers during the years they were recorded, during the same era. But those who outperformed Buckley in this category didn't share the hurt factor, meters gained or all-around game Buckley possessed.

 

[Knightmare]

*For further context the 2000's had the mega flood brought in by the dogs to stop the ess side and then adopted by teams including Roos ultra heavy defensive style leading up to the 2005/06 gf side, not much difference in intent to modrern press both are designee to restrict ball movement, space and scoring.
The pressure around the ball contest was equally applied but rougher then, yes the bump was alive then and so was deliberate "elbows" ask the *dog* Cameron Ling who ran past the ball to take bucks out!
This is when he wiped his blood incident (was bucks way of saying if im going off so are you gross but smart) it always bemuses me that Ling escaped the criticism for a deliberate dog act literally ran straight past the stoppage to the other side lifted the elbow smashed Bucks straight in the face with one intent to take him out. And the funny thing is as a commentator he acts like mother mary! "you can't do that" his catch cry.

The best mids were heavily tagged and restricted putting further pressure on them, harder to break a tagger then just be allowed to play and beat the opponent like majority of mids the last decade including Ablett jnbr, Martin and Danger who only get tagged irregularly.

It was a serious era for taggers, and that's certainly one further case in favour of the players from Buckley's generation. You'd get tagged every week. It was really rare for Buckley to have the chance to go head-to-head with another great. Clubs just knew how damaging he was. Tagging today is much looser and I think the rules also make that the case, as you can't stop players having a go at the footy as could happen then more-so.

 

[Knightmare]

He was tracked twice that year, 1st game he ran 20.3km the second iirc was the 19.7km.

The first game he was tracked standing still so little it registered 0% and was tracked at top pace ie sprinting at 23% almost 5km.

This year in round 1 they were tracking all players and they were only hitting between 12-14km for the top runners. Athletically the game requirements has dived in this area.

Scully is the best modern runner often getting 16-20km last year.

Nathan Buckley was a once in a lifetime player, absolute freak, and a bloody privilege to watch him at our great club all those years. None compare in my mind.

Do you have games/years for these games by chance?

Would be great for context.

If say it happened 2004 or later. It would make the achievement all the more staggering given the age and stage of career.

 

[Knightmare]

How can you (not you directly but the people who do) even compare talking about a player tagged more heavily then any modern player.

In fact some teams teams would assign 2 taggers a game to Bucks because they couldn't go with him over a full game. For example both the Kellaway (Richmond) brothers would take turns half a game each, they were often always hanging off him at stoppages etc Buckley found space through work rate players simply couldn't go with him.

People love the modern mid but they get freedom to play that the last gen could only dream of, imagine Nathan Buckleys stats had he been allowed to be like today's mids tagger what the f is that they say!

A great comment and accurate in the overall analysis of Buckley's achievements and what he had to deal with.

 

[Knightmare]

They've made a stuff up there for sure! Looking at the 2006 week one finals Records, they all seem to be wrong. Could you please let them know this? The Adelaide vs. Fremantle Record actually has the Collingwood vs Western Bulldogs details, so you may find what you're looking for there!

Thanks for helping me out on that one. Much appreciated. Didn't consider looking under Adelaide v Fremantle!

A shorter kicking season from Nathan with just the 97 long kicks or 302 (likely due to playing more forward of centre).

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Interesting. The biggest knock haters have on Buckley is that he didn’t win his own ball...your stats reconfirm the counter argument though. You want your best and most effective kick receiving the ball.

Probably the biggest issue people have with Buckley though is his personality, this bias tends to impact their judgment of him as a player. I think the fact that his players clear play for him indicates that behind closed doors he’s actually not such a bad bloke.

Yes he has always been unfairly maligned for the so called personality thing.

In part him playing for Collingwood was a huge reason as well. We are rarely loved.
Certainly had he played for say Hawthorn he’d be lauded and gushed over a whole lot more.
Outstanding footballer.
And from what I hear not a bad bloke either.
Though that should not matter in such judgments.

 

[loki04]

Do you have games/years for these games by chance?

Would be great for context.

If say it happened 2004 or later. It would make the achievement all the more staggering given the age and stage of career.

Nah unfortunately I don't remember which season it was now, only remember very vividly the stats of it as it blew me away, especially the standing still and sprinting portions 0% and 23% of the 20.3km. Which is an incredible effort nearly 5km of sprint type efforts.

I feel it was either 02 or 03.

Edit: Knightmare maybe get on to TradeDraft as he has a lot of those 02/03/04 games that he can upload on another site.

 

[domin8tors]

Privileged enough to have seen both, I'd say Daics was the better shot for goal whilst Buckley's kicks travelled faster. Both were sublime and so much better than anyone we have today. Didac was probably our last great kick.

Leon Davis.. i vaguely remember he hit something like 100+ targets in a row when kicking the ball out.

 

[Knightmare]

Nah unfortunately I don't remember which season it was now, only remember very vividly the stats of it as it blew me away, especially the standing still and sprinting portions 0% and 23% of the 20.3km. Which is an incredible effort nearly 5km of sprint type efforts.

I feel it was either 02 or 03.

Edit: Knightmare maybe get on to TradeDraft as he has a lot of those 02/03/04 games that he can upload on another site.

TradeDraft you have been summoned.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Guy Richards cost us that final.


Ugh my god we have had some poor ruckmen under Mick.

I lay a bit of blame at both of them, but I feel worse blaming Bryan because he was a trier.

 

[Bored_Pie]

Leon Davis.. i vaguely remember he hit something like 100+ targets in a row when kicking the ball out.

Leon Davis was ranked #1 in 2011 for targets hit from kick outs or something like that. Remember seeing it on TEN that year, lethal kick.

 

[35Daicos]

Thanks for helping me out on that one. Much appreciated. Didn't consider looking under Adelaide v Fremantle!

A shorter kicking season from Nathan with just the 97 long kicks or 302 (likely due to playing more forward of centre).

In case you haven't spotted it on that website, there is a search facility available to use with the Football Record. It can come in handy at times if you are looking for something specific. If you did an "exact search" for Nathan Buckley it would be rather pointless, but with e.g. Fatui Ataata or Ataata it should help find what you're after quite quickly!

When you click on Football Record on it's "home page" you can see back to search at the bottom of the next page. After clicking on that you just pick Football Record from the drop down box and then type in something in the box below.

Or just go here: http://digital.slv.vic.gov.au/R

 

[doppleganger]

Buckley from 1999 - 2003 was top 3-5 in the AFL for contested ball often up there with Jason Johnson from EFC, superior to the golden boy Hird and M.Voss.

In 1999 Buckley broke his jaw burrowing in a full tilt vs Justin Murphy who led with his Knee. A year Buckley would of shat it in for his first Brownlow had he not got injured.

Buckley did it all, there really wasn't a genuine weakness in his game.

Yep.

Buckley was a beast under MM.

But most people only recall the early Buckley where he was a much lighter built player who played more of an outside game when with the Lions and then us.

 

[Knightmare]

Yep.

Buckley was a beast under MM.

But most people only recall the early Buckley where he was a much lighter built player who played more of an outside game when with the Lions and then us.

Clearance numbers in 1998/1999 (pre-Malthouse) were kept and Buckley had 100 or more in both seasons. Contested possessions were kept in 2000 and he had over 200. All these numbers are in keeping with what he did 2000-2003.

It's unfortunate contested possessions and clearances weren't kept earlier than they were, as it would give some greater context with Buckley as to when he really developed that side of his game. Overall I don't see it as a stain on his legacy that he didn't have that right away. I think the real impact was that by the time he was copping hard tags in the late 90s he was able to deal with it.

Was 98 the first year he proved to be a genuine contested ball winner? 97? 96? I'd describe 96-2003 to be his prime and really unstoppable years with 1999/2000 his most dominant when you look at his known numbers.

Buckley led the competition in 97 in kicks and in all likelihood though they're not mentioned, long kicks also no doubt. And in 96 was second in total kicks (2 in the competition behind Nathan Burke for the season) and may also had led the competition in long kicks that year also.

Overall while there may be varied views. I consider Buckley's career from his debut year 1993-2003 to be an incredibly successful period, with injuries after that restricting the number of games he played each year, though even after that when he was out on the field he still was each year Collingwood's best/the player to stop.

Giving a bit more on those first 11 seasons. From 1993-2003 Buckley didn't have a season with less than 450 disposals, with his lowest kick total 347 in his debut season. No less than 76 marks during that time in a season. In his first two seasons he was even kicking over 20 goals and was good for a goal each game. While inside 50 numbers were first recorded in 1998, he may never have had less than 100 during that period for all we know. He was staggeringly good. And this is an extremely high impact per possession player who covered a lot of ground, kicked long but hit his targets lace out and wasn't just hand balling off to get it back and rack up empty possessions. I think early days, Buckley was really grossly underappreciated and a lot better than given credit for. He wasn't of the standard Hird and Voss reached earlier in those 95/96 seasons, but from 97-03 had both decisively covered during his prime.

 

[MagpieBat]

Nah unfortunately I don't remember which season it was now, only remember very vividly the stats of it as it blew me away, especially the standing still and sprinting portions 0% and 23% of the 20.3km. Which is an incredible effort nearly 5km of sprint type efforts.

I feel it was either 02 or 03.

Edit: Knightmare maybe get on to TradeDraft as he has a lot of those 02/03/04 games that he can upload on another site.

I have this memory (and I say memory, because I had the game on my old hard drive, before it died) of Channel 9 tracking the umpires and comparing them to Buckley's tracker. The commentators were mightily impressed with the umps covering upwards of 15 klicks, compared with Buckley's 19km (or thereabouts).

I'd go check it again, but the links to everything prior to 2010 have been destroyed by BigPond. It was the 2nd game against Richmond in 2003; the one where Molloy booted 4 goals. Again, maybe The Dave can steer you in the right direction.

(Honourable mention to one passage where Matthew Richardson loped off down the wing on the Southern Side, tried to take Buckley on with a big 'don't argue', but our guy just latched on and nailed him to the floor. The slow-motion replay actually shows you the exact moment where Richo's expression moves from 'I've got you covered' to 'oh s**t, I'm not getting out of this one')...

 

[loki04]

I have this memory (and I say memory, because I had the game on my old hard drive, before it died) of Channel 9 tracking the umpires and comparing them to Buckley's tracker. The commentators were mightily impressed with the umps covering upwards of 15 klicks, compared with Buckley's 19km (or thereabouts).

I'd go check it again, but the links to everything prior to 2010 have been destroyed by BigPond. It was the 2nd game against Richmond in 2003; the one where Molloy booted 4 goals. Again, maybe The Dave can steer you in the right direction.

(Honourable mention to one passage where Matthew Richardson loped off down the wing on the Southern Side, tried to take Buckley on with a big 'don't argue', but our guy just latched on and nailed him to the floor. The slow-motion replay actually shows you the exact moment where Richo's expression moves from 'I've got you covered' to 'oh s**t, I'm not getting out of this one')...

Good work MB that game he did get tracked @ 19.4km, 23% sprint, 56% Jog, Walk 16% and 3% standing still, another huge effort, looked it up and its on youtube. He was tracked twice that year the 2nd time he ran further than that game even.
He also had 31 possessions, 5 tackles, 1 goal, 8 inside 50s and 6 rebound 50s.



Now if we can find that 2nd game of Buckleys and Tarrants 16km game which shows the work rate he had as a forward [take note current pie forwards] which was greater then most mids these days and why young Nick Reiwoldt modelled his game on 2003 Tazza.

Knightmare

 

[loki04]

Clearance numbers in 1998/1999 (pre-Malthouse) were kept and Buckley had 100 or more in both seasons. Contested possessions were kept in 2000 and he had over 200. All these numbers are in keeping with what he did 2000-2003.

It's unfortunate contested possessions and clearances weren't kept earlier than they were, as it would give some greater context with Buckley as to when he really developed that side of his game. Overall I don't see it as a stain on his legacy that he didn't have that right away. I think the real impact was that by the time he was copping hard tags in the late 90s he was able to deal with it.

Was 98 the first year he proved to be a genuine contested ball winner? 97? 96? I'd describe 96-2003 to be his prime and really unstoppable years with 1999/2000 his most dominant when you look at his known numbers.

Buckley led the competition in 97 in kicks and in all likelihood though they're not mentioned, long kicks also no doubt. And in 96 was second in total kicks (2 in the competition behind Nathan Burke for the season) and may also had led the competition in long kicks that year also.

Overall while there may be varied views. I consider Buckley's career from his debut year 1993-2003 to be an incredibly successful period, with injuries after that restricting the number of games he played each year, though even after that when he was out on the field he still was each year Collingwood's best/the player to stop.

Giving a bit more on those first 11 seasons. From 1993-2003 Buckley didn't have a season with less than 450 disposals, with his lowest kick total 347 in his debut season. No less than 76 marks during that time in a season. In his first two seasons he was even kicking over 20 goals and was good for a goal each game. While inside 50 numbers were first recorded in 1998, he may never have had less than 100 during that period for all we know. He was staggeringly good. And this is an extremely high impact per possession player who covered a lot of ground, kicked long but hit his targets lace out and wasn't just hand balling off to get it back and rack up empty possessions. I think early days, Buckley was really grossly underappreciated and a lot better than given credit for. He wasn't of the standard Hird and Voss reached earlier in those 95/96 seasons, but from 97-03 had both decisively covered during his prime.

Buckley had 217 contested possessions from 17 games in 1999.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/N/Nathan_Buckley.html

Had he played full seasons in 98 (18 games) and 99 (17) he would of won back to back brownlows imo, he was acknowledged by both Harvey and Crawford as the best player in the game in their acceptance speeches.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

This thread is what is so good about bigfooty.

Not the carping and whinging (though there is a place for expressing the poor things we do) just an expression of joy in the great things of our game.

 

[lethalburns]

Hey - I'm a big fan of Chris Bryan.

Really didn't have the talent to be at AFL level, but in his short stint when he had the opportunities I reckon he provided a lot more than guys like Richards or Cam Wood ever did. I reckon he was a less talented version of premiership Leigh Brown.

Unfortunately he lost us the 2007 prelim when Ottens was allowed to play probably the best game of his career.

Josh 'Glass' Fraser can also pat himself on the back for getting injured.

We would have caused irreparable damage to Geelong if they had lost that game.

 

[Knightmare]

Good work MB that game he did get tracked @ 19.4km, 23% sprint, 56% Jog, Walk 16% and 3% standing still, another huge effort, looked it up and its on youtube. He was tracked twice that year the 2nd time he ran further than that game even.
He also had 31 possessions, 5 tackles, 1 goal, 8 inside 50s and 6 rebound 50s.



Now if we can find that 2nd game of Buckleys and Tarrants 16km game which shows the work rate he had as a forward [take note current pie forwards] which was greater then most mids these days and why young Nick Reiwoldt modelled his game on 2003 Tazza.

Knightmare

19.4km is incredible.

If there is another game where Buckley topped 20km. That would be even more amazing. Round solid number and would humble any modern midfielder.

It would also be interesting to know with the GPS trackers of the time whether anyone topped Buckley's highs.

Robert Harvey maybe? He seemed around that time to have been always spoken about as that standard in terms of ground covered.

 

[mike123]

Unfortunately he lost us the 2007 prelim when Ottens was allowed to play probably the best game of his career.

Josh 'Glass' Fraser can also pat himself on the back for getting injured.

We would have caused irreparable damage to Geelong if they had lost that game.

I thought Richards was much worse that game.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

19.4km is incredible.

If there is another game where Buckley topped 20km. That would be even more amazing. Round solid number and would humble any modern midfielder.

It would also be interesting to know with the GPS trackers of the time whether anyone topped Buckley's highs.

Robert Harvey maybe? He seemed around that time to have been always spoken about as that standard in terms of ground covered.

I have been to games (v St Kilda) where I spent some time just watching Harvey run.
Just didn’t stop.

Amazing work ethic.

 

[MagpieBat]

I thought Richards was much worse that game.

That snap of Ablett's, where he steps around Richards as though he isn't even there, will haunt me forever...

 

[loki04]

19.4km is incredible.

If there is another game where Buckley topped 20km. That would be even more amazing. Round solid number and would humble any modern midfielder.

It would also be interesting to know with the GPS trackers of the time whether anyone topped Buckley's highs.

Robert Harvey maybe? He seemed around that time to have been always spoken about as that standard in terms of ground covered.

Pretty sure Crawf topped it but had inferior % in stand still time and sprinting. I think he got 22km one game.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Pretty sure Crawf topped it but had inferior % in stand still time and sprinting. I think he got 22km one game.

And you should see what he ran off field?