Mega Thread Nick Daicos - Can he be the GTWEB? Part 2

[ShereKhan]

Funny you say that, because absolutely noone nominated Rowell as having a better season than Daicos before Brownlow night.

But because Rowell received a few dubious votes to win the award, that immediately translates retrospectively to better performances throughout the season...

Oh boy.

There is a reason Daicos was the even money favourite for the Brownlow leading into the count (and Rowell was 8 to 1), which is that same reason Daicos is again the short priced favourite leading into the season (half the odds of the next line in betting).

And if Brownlow votes are the deciding factor as to who the best player is, it's therefore undisputed that Daicos is the #1 player between 2023 and 2025.

Thanks for that!

Strawman Fadge again....Brownlow votes alone is a poor way of confirming best players or otherwise - Crippa has 6 more votes over the last 4 seasons than any other player in the comp.....not many would rate him a top-10 player in the game. Cameron beat supposed GOAT contender Naicos in the B&F and got zero votes.

Brownlow is one metric worth factoring in.......but Rowell got more coaches votes as well.....and a higher player rating.

The media fawn over Daicos, of course. He plays for the highest profile club in the country and has a famous name. Rowell plays off broadway with most games not on free-to-air. He's not flashy, but if you ask anyone who they want at a stoppage with game on the line Rowell is first chosen.

When a player gets more coaches votes, a higher player rating, more Brownlow votes AND wins his club B&F ...all in a team where he plays alongside another superstar, then it's hardly earth shattering news to realise he had a better season.

I watched plenty of GC games as I love footy and have Foxtel - Rowell was an absolute beast all year, and whilst I did expect Daicos to win the Brownlow as he polls amazingly well, I did slurp up a very tasty 10-1 quinella as I expected Rowell to poll very well given he got 26 votes in 2024.

 

[Fadge]

Strawman Fadge again....Brownlow votes alone is a poor way of confirming best players or otherwise - Crippa has 6 more votes over the last 4 seasons than any other player in the comp.....not many would rate him a top-10 player in the game.

LOLOLOLOL.

In 2025 Rowell got more Brownlow votes than Naicos...

You might want to settle on a narrative.

Would you like to point me to a post where you told us all Rowell was having a better 2025 than Daicos, prior to the Brownlow result?

 

[ShereKhan]

OK - we are hearing Pies fans suggest Naicos is a GOAT contender based on 2023-25 performances. They've been superb, and maybe he will get even better....time will tell.

So this 3-year period is being highlighted as comparable to anything almost anyone has done in recent memory .....but how does it stack up against 3 other all-timers. I've taken Danger's 2015-17, Dusty's 2017-19 (2020 was every bit as good but reduced game time) and GAJ's 2012-14 (I don't think this is his best 3-year stretch, but certain stats and ratings weren't collect prior to 2012, so that't the 3-year period I've chosen).

How do the 3-year periods from these 4 x great players stack up in comparison? Have we quickly forgotten what these other guys produced?

Not sure.....let's 'go to the tape':

Disposals:
GAJ: 32.3
Naicos: 30.5
Danger: 29.5
Martin: 27.1

Player Ratings:
GAJ: 21.11
Danger: 20.34
Martin: 18.14
Naicos: 15.93

Finals Player Ratings:
Martin: 20.11
Danger: 17.0
Naicos: 16.25
GAJ: no finals

Goals:
Martin: 1.41
GAJ: 1.39
Danger: 1.27
Naicos: 0.80

Goal Assists:
Martin: 1.06
GAJ: .98
Danger: .80
Naicos: .76

Goals & GA's:
Martin: 2.47
GAJ: 2.37
Danger: 2.07
Naicos: 1.56

SI's:
Martin: 8.32
GAJ: 7.95
Danger: 7.87
Naicos: 7.26

Tackles:
GAJ: 5.30
Danger: 5.30
Naicos: 3.84
Martin: 2.70

I50's:
Danger: 6.13
Martin: 5.85
GAJ: 5.19
Naicos: 5.17

Clearances:
Danger: 6.98
GAJ: 6.68
Naicos: 5.99
Martin: 5.37

Contested Poss:
Danger: 16.44
GAJ: 15.59
Martin: 12.37
Naicos: 11.13

Marks I50:
Danger: 0.97
Martin: 0.90
GAJ: 0.52
Naicos: 0.37

1% ers:
Danger: 1.31
GAJ: 1.21
Martin: 1.13
Naicos: 0.51

Naicos 2023-25 is not quite in the same ballpark as those other 3. Particularly when you consider GAJ did it in a bottom team, and in that 3-year period Martin dominated 2 x finals series and Grand Finals.

As I said, Naicos has time and he may get better and close the gap, but let's not get carried away with 2023-25 just because he polls well in subjective awards.

Of those lists above Naicos is last in 9 of them and second bottom in all other except disposals. If you remove kick-outs he'd go to bottom 2 in that also.

 

[ShereKhan]

LOLOLOLOL.

You might want to settle on a narrative.

Would you like to point me to a post where you told us all Rowell was having a better 2025 than Daicos, prior to the Brownlow result?

can you point me to a post where I said anyone was having a better year than anyone?

In 2026, if a player leads another in the Player Ratings, Coaches Votes, Brownlow votes and wins the B&F when the other doesn't, who will have had the better year?

 

[Fadge]

In 2026, if a player leads another in the Player Ratings, Coaches Votes, Brownlow votes and wins the B&F when the other doesn't, who will have had the better year?

Astounding that Rowell didn't figure in the Top 5 of the AFLPA MVP.... you know, the award that was won by Daicos?

Actually, it isn't...

 

[ShereKhan]

LOLOLOLOL.

You might want to settle on a narrative.

Would you like to point me to a post where you told us all Rowell was having a better 2025 than Daicos, prior to the Brownlow result?

If Naicos was some 'undisputed best player of 2025', then he would've won his team's B&F and been named on the field in the AA team. Just like Rowell, they had great seasons, but let's not get carried away that Naicos produced anything over and above a heap of other players in 2025.

 

[Fadge]

OK - we are hearing Pies fans suggest Naicos is a GOAT contender based on 2023-25 performances. They've been superb, and maybe he will get even better....time will tell.

So this 3-year period is being highlighted as comparable to anything almost anyone has done in recent memory .....but how does it stack up against 3 other all-timers. I've taken Danger's 2015-17, Dusty's 2017-19 (2020 was every bit as good but reduced game time) and GAJ's 2012-14 (I don't think this is his best 3-year stretch, but certain stats and ratings weren't collect prior to 2012, so that't the 3-year period I've chosen).

How do the 3-year periods from these 4 x great players stack up in comparison? Have we quickly forgotten what these other guys produced?

Not sure.....let's 'go to the tape':

Disposals:
GAJ: 32.3
Naicos: 30.5
Danger: 29.5
Martin: 27.1

Player Ratings:
GAJ: 21.11
Danger: 20.34
Martin: 18.14
Naicos: 15.93

Finals Player Ratings:
Martin: 20.11
Danger: 17.0
Naicos: 16.25
GAJ: no finals

Goals:
Martin: 1.41
GAJ: 1.39
Danger: 1.27
Naicos: 0.80

Goal Assists:
Martin: 1.06
GAJ: .98
Danger: .80
Naicos: .76

Goals & GA's:
Martin: 2.47
GAJ: 2.37
Danger: 2.07
Naicos: 1.56

SI's:
Martin: 8.32
GAJ: 7.95
Danger: 7.87
Naicos: 7.26

Tackles:
GAJ: 5.30
Danger: 5.30
Naicos: 3.84
Martin: 2.70

I50's:
Danger: 6.13
Martin: 5.85
GAJ: 5.19
Naicos: 5.17

Clearances:
Danger: 6.98
GAJ: 6.68
Naicos: 5.99
Martin: 5.37

Contested Poss:
Danger: 16.44
GAJ: 15.59
Martin: 12.37
Naicos: 11.13

Marks I50:
Danger: 0.97
Martin: 0.90
GAJ: 0.52
Naicos: 0.37

1% ers:
Danger: 1.31
GAJ: 1.21
Martin: 1.13
Naicos: 0.51

Naicos 2023-25 is not quite in the same ballpark as those other 3. Particularly when you consider GAJ did it in a bottom team, and in that 3-year period Martin dominated 2 x finals series and Grand Finals.

As I said, Naicos has time and he may get better and close the gap, but let's not get carried away with 2023-25 just because he polls well in subjective awards.

Of those lists above Naicos is last in 9 of them and second bottom in all other except disposals. If you remove kick-outs he'd go to bottom 2 in that also.

Thanks for disputing something noone in this thread has stated....

Oh boy.

 

[Fadge]

If Naicos was some 'undisputed best player of 2025', then he would've won his team's B&F and been named on the field in the AA team. Just like Rowell, they had great seasons, but let's not get carried away that Naicos produced anything over and above a heap of other players in 2025.

'A heap of other players' now....

LOLOLOLOL.

Who from this 'heap of other players' finished top 4 in all of the 3 individual awards?

You guessed it, noone.

 

[Do the Dew]

Funny you say that, because absolutely noone nominated Rowell as having a better season than Daicos before Brownlow night.

But because Rowell received a few dubious votes to win the award, that immediately translates retrospectively to better performances throughout the season...

Oh boy.

There is a reason Daicos was the even money favourite for the Brownlow leading into the count (and Rowell was 8 to 1), which is that same reason Daicos is again the short priced favourite leading into the season (half the odds of the next line in betting).

And if Brownlow votes are the deciding factor as to who the best player is, it's therefore undisputed that Daicos is the #1 player between 2023 and 2025.

Thanks for that!

Little nicky has also received dubious votes in the past. Remember when he had 12 touches and was subbed out or something, and the umps gave him 2 votes cause they got him confused with his brother?

Maybe, as I've said all along, Brownlow voting isn't all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Dtennent94]

OK - we are hearing Pies fans suggest Naicos is a GOAT contender based on 2023-25 performances. They've been superb, and maybe he will get even better....time will tell.

So this 3-year period is being highlighted as comparable to anything almost anyone has done in recent memory .....but how does it stack up against 3 other all-timers. I've taken Danger's 2015-17, Dusty's 2017-19 (2020 was every bit as good but reduced game time) and GAJ's 2012-14 (I don't think this is his best 3-year stretch, but certain stats and ratings weren't collect prior to 2012, so that't the 3-year period I've chosen).

How do the 3-year periods from these 4 x great players stack up in comparison? Have we quickly forgotten what these other guys produced?

Not sure.....let's 'go to the tape':

Disposals:
GAJ: 32.3
Naicos: 30.5
Danger: 29.5
Martin: 27.1

Player Ratings:
GAJ: 21.11
Danger: 20.34
Martin: 18.14
Naicos: 15.93

Finals Player Ratings:
Martin: 20.11
Danger: 17.0
Naicos: 16.25
GAJ: no finals

Goals:
Martin: 1.41
GAJ: 1.39
Danger: 1.27
Naicos: 0.80

Goal Assists:
Martin: 1.06
GAJ: .98
Danger: .80
Naicos: .76

Goals & GA's:
Martin: 2.47
GAJ: 2.37
Danger: 2.07
Naicos: 1.56

SI's:
Martin: 8.32
GAJ: 7.95
Danger: 7.87
Naicos: 7.26

Tackles:
GAJ: 5.30
Danger: 5.30
Naicos: 3.84
Martin: 2.70

I50's:
Danger: 6.13
Martin: 5.85
GAJ: 5.19
Naicos: 5.17

Clearances:
Danger: 6.98
GAJ: 6.68
Naicos: 5.99
Martin: 5.37

Contested Poss:
Danger: 16.44
GAJ: 15.59
Martin: 12.37
Naicos: 11.13

Marks I50:
Danger: 0.97
Martin: 0.90
GAJ: 0.52
Naicos: 0.37

1% ers:
Danger: 1.31
GAJ: 1.21
Martin: 1.13
Naicos: 0.51

Naicos 2023-25 is not quite in the same ballpark as those other 3. Particularly when you consider GAJ did it in a bottom team, and in that 3-year period Martin dominated 2 x finals series and Grand Finals.

As I said, Naicos has time and he may get better and close the gap, but let's not get carried away with 2023-25 just because he polls well in subjective awards.

Of those lists above Naicos is last in 9 of them and second bottom in all other except disposals. If you remove kick-outs he'd go to bottom 2 in that also.

This is comparing the 20-22yo development years of one player vs the best stretch of 3x of the greatest midfielders the game has ever seen.

I don’t think Daicos’ current stretch is quite at the level of those guys’ best stretches, but he is tracking bloody well.

 

[ShereKhan]

So just to recall, here are some elements of your criteria for being the 'undisputed best player in the competition, and least when assessing Daicos:
View attachment 2531652

Next minute, GAJ was apparently the 'undisputed best player in the competition for ALL of 2007 to 2014'.

This includes seasons such as:
2010 - Zero major awards, no club best and fairest. Inferior to both Judd and Swan in placings in the major awards.
2011 - A single podium finish in the three major awards, and again inferior to both Judd and Swan.
2012 - One Major Award (Players MVP) and one other podium. Inferior to Cotchin (LOL) in Major awards.
2014 - Zero major awards, two podium finishes. No club B&F.

But that's OK, because we've already established that Daicos is THAT good, he is held to a much higher standard to all others before him, even the best midfielder I have seen in my time watching football.

Except the unbiased an unemotional player ratings tell us he's 7-17th best in each of the 2023-25 seasons.

Other superstars in dominant seasons generally smash the ratings: GAJ, Fyfe, Bont, Martin, Danger..... Martin averaged 20+ in the ratings in finals and is regarded unanimously as the best finals player of his generation - it's almost like the ratings provide a decent reflection of greatness.

But the algorythm seems just a bit 'shaky' in relation to Naicos from 2023-25.......I've got little doubt he will improve his ratings numbers into the upper echelon in coming seasons to compete with the greats.

 

[Fadge]

Little nicky has also received dubious votes in the past. Remember when he had 12 touches and was subbed out or something, and the umps gave him 2 votes cause they got him confused with his brother?

Maybe, as I've said all along, Brownlow voting isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Swings and roundabouts, unless you think Daicos has never missed out on votes he is deserving of.

There were no doubts that Rowell significantly outpolled his performance in 2025.

 

[Fadge]

Except the unbiased an unemotional player ratings tell us he's 7-17th best in each of the 2023-25 seasons.

Other superstars in dominant seasons generally smash the ratings: GAJ, Fyfe, Bont, Martin, Danger..... Martin averaged 20+ in the ratings in finals and is regarded unanimously as the best finals player of his generation - it's almost like the ratings provide a decent reflection of greatness.

But the algorythm seems just a bit 'shaky' in relation to Naicos from 2023-25.......I've got little doubt he will improve his ratings numbers into the upper echelon in coming seasons to compete with the greats.

Yes, Daicos too had a 27 point something in a final he failed to receive coaches votes in.

Compelling evidence these PLaYeR RaTiNGZ, and how did the other superstars go with the PLaYeR RaTiNGZ in their first 4 seasons?

 

[ShereKhan]

This is comparing the 20-22yo development years of one player vs the best stretch of 3x of the greatest midfielders the game has ever seen.

I don’t think Daicos’ current stretch is quite at the level of those guys’ best stretches, but he is tracking bloody well.

Finally, some common sense from a Pies fan!

I totally agree with you. He's been up there with Judd as the best first 4-year player I've seen. If he continues to get better (scary thought), he will produce 3-year periods equal to those superstars.

And thats the point...his 2023-25 is already been touted as GOAT worth performances...but when placed into some cold hard facts it's a fair way behind some others this century.

As I said...if he gets better, which most players do into their mid-20s, he could equal them

 

[Do the Dew]

Swings and roundabouts, unless you think Daicos has never missed out on votes he is deserving of.

There were no doubts that Rowell significantly outpolled his performance in 2025.

Nope. Rowell missed out on votes he should've got too. See how that works?

 

[Fadge]

And thats the point...his 2023-25 is already been touted as GOAT worth performances...but when placed into some cold hard facts it's a fair way behind some others this century.

By who?

 

[Fadge]

Nope. Rowell missed out on votes he should've got too. See how that works?

Yep. Sure he did...

 

[doppleganger]

Except the unbiased an unemotional player ratings tell us he's 7-17th best in each of the 2023-25 seasons.

The Doggie fan has explained this for you.


Daicos is in the bests more than anyone. But as early 20s, Daicos isn't as consistent as the blokes in the prime, he still has stinkers. Lift his floor (turn a bad game into a solid game) and he will improve his season average.

Martin averaged 20+ in the ratings in finals and is regarded unanimously as the best finals player of his generation - it's almost like the ratings provide a decent reflection of greatness.

Are you cherry picking again? Just ignoring Dusty's early finals. His overall avg in his 16 finals wasn't 20.

In Dusty's finals series when he was 22-24 (2013,2014 and 2015) he avg just 10.1 player rating in finals.

Daicos in his finals to date when he has been just 19-22 is avg 12.6, and that is with 40% of the finals from Daicos debut season!!

Daicos avg 21.6 in the 2025 finals series, which is a better finals rating avg than all Dusty's finals season avgs apart from 2017.

I agree that fInals ratings are already providing a reflection of Daicos greatness, he has already bettered 7 of Dusty's 8 finals series avg rating...and is only 22 years of age!!!

Imagine what he may do if he plays finals in his physical peak in his late 20s!! A scary thought.

 

[doppleganger]

OK - we are hearing Pies fans suggest Naicos is a GOAT contender based on 2023-25 performances..

Tiger cherry picking.

Why are you comparing Daicos season 2-4 with the best peaks of others?

Why people are bullish on Daicos on being viewed as the GTWEB once his career is complete is because his early seasons are clearly ahead of where others were at.

He isn't even at his physical peak yet, but was up contending for league best awards in season 2.

It took Dusty until season 8 as a 26 yr old, and that is his only season where he won any league awards or had coaches votes above 100, player rating higher than 16.something.

Dusty only had 1 season in his entire career that was better than what Daicos has produced in seasons 2,3 and 4.

Daicos career performance arc is so far ahead of others is why the thread exists.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

By who?

We've been pretty consistent that he's "tracking towards GOAT", not already there

 

[sr36]

OK - we are hearing Pies fans suggest Naicos is a GOAT contender based on 2023-25 performances. They've been superb, and maybe he will get even better....time will tell.

So this 3-year period is being highlighted as comparable to anything almost anyone has done in recent memory .....but how does it stack up against 3 other all-timers. I've taken Danger's 2015-17, Dusty's 2017-19 (2020 was every bit as good but reduced game time) and GAJ's 2012-14 (I don't think this is his best 3-year stretch, but certain stats and ratings weren't collect prior to 2012, so that't the 3-year period I've chosen).

How do the 3-year periods from these 4 x great players stack up in comparison? Have we quickly forgotten what these other guys produced?

Not sure.....let's 'go to the tape':

Disposals:
GAJ: 32.3
Naicos: 30.5
Danger: 29.5
Martin: 27.1

Player Ratings:
GAJ: 21.11
Danger: 20.34
Martin: 18.14
Naicos: 15.93

Finals Player Ratings:
Martin: 20.11
Danger: 17.0
Naicos: 16.25
GAJ: no finals

Goals:
Martin: 1.41
GAJ: 1.39
Danger: 1.27
Naicos: 0.80

Goal Assists:
Martin: 1.06
GAJ: .98
Danger: .80
Naicos: .76

Goals & GA's:
Martin: 2.47
GAJ: 2.37
Danger: 2.07
Naicos: 1.56

SI's:
Martin: 8.32
GAJ: 7.95
Danger: 7.87
Naicos: 7.26

Tackles:
GAJ: 5.30
Danger: 5.30
Naicos: 3.84
Martin: 2.70

I50's:
Danger: 6.13
Martin: 5.85
GAJ: 5.19
Naicos: 5.17

Clearances:
Danger: 6.98
GAJ: 6.68
Naicos: 5.99
Martin: 5.37

Contested Poss:
Danger: 16.44
GAJ: 15.59
Martin: 12.37
Naicos: 11.13

Marks I50:
Danger: 0.97
Martin: 0.90
GAJ: 0.52
Naicos: 0.37

1% ers:
Danger: 1.31
GAJ: 1.21
Martin: 1.13
Naicos: 0.51

Naicos 2023-25 is not quite in the same ballpark as those other 3. Particularly when you consider GAJ did it in a bottom team, and in that 3-year period Martin dominated 2 x finals series and Grand Finals.

As I said, Naicos has time and he may get better and close the gap, but let's not get carried away with 2023-25 just because he polls well in subjective awards.

Of those lists above Naicos is last in 9 of them and second bottom in all other except disposals. If you remove kick-outs he'd go to bottom 2 in that also.

You don't seem to get it. Pies fans are saying that they think Nick Daicos is a realistic chance to have the best career we've seen. Some posters seem to think that is saying he is already better than the great players were at their peak. It's not.

Is it intentional miscomprehension, due to it being pretty hard to argue that he's not a realistic chance to have the best career we've seen?

 

[Fadge]

Is it intentional miscomprehension, due to it being pretty hard to argue that he's not a realistic chance to have the best career we've seen?

I suspect not, given the demographic we're dealing with.....

 

[Mr Meow]

I figured you were trying to. If you weren’t, then apologies all around.

The statement that Daicos has yet to hit the level of, or start, that 2007-2014 Ablett level of run, seems to irk them. Then they end up agreeing anyway and shift to some other argument or start a war over semantics of the phrasing.

 

[Mr Meow]

OK - we are hearing Pies fans suggest Naicos is a GOAT contender based on 2023-25 performances. They've been superb, and maybe he will get even better....time will tell.

So this 3-year period is being highlighted as comparable to anything almost anyone has done in recent memory .....but how does it stack up against 3 other all-timers. I've taken Danger's 2015-17, Dusty's 2017-19 (2020 was every bit as good but reduced game time) and GAJ's 2012-14 (I don't think this is his best 3-year stretch, but certain stats and ratings weren't collect prior to 2012, so that't the 3-year period I've chosen).

How do the 3-year periods from these 4 x great players stack up in comparison? Have we quickly forgotten what these other guys produced?

Not sure.....let's 'go to the tape':

Disposals:
GAJ: 32.3
Naicos: 30.5
Danger: 29.5
Martin: 27.1

Player Ratings:
GAJ: 21.11
Danger: 20.34
Martin: 18.14
Naicos: 15.93

Finals Player Ratings:
Martin: 20.11
Danger: 17.0
Naicos: 16.25
GAJ: no finals

Goals:
Martin: 1.41
GAJ: 1.39
Danger: 1.27
Naicos: 0.80

Goal Assists:
Martin: 1.06
GAJ: .98
Danger: .80
Naicos: .76

Goals & GA's:
Martin: 2.47
GAJ: 2.37
Danger: 2.07
Naicos: 1.56

SI's:
Martin: 8.32
GAJ: 7.95
Danger: 7.87
Naicos: 7.26

Tackles:
GAJ: 5.30
Danger: 5.30
Naicos: 3.84
Martin: 2.70

I50's:
Danger: 6.13
Martin: 5.85
GAJ: 5.19
Naicos: 5.17

Clearances:
Danger: 6.98
GAJ: 6.68
Naicos: 5.99
Martin: 5.37

Contested Poss:
Danger: 16.44
GAJ: 15.59
Martin: 12.37
Naicos: 11.13

Marks I50:
Danger: 0.97
Martin: 0.90
GAJ: 0.52
Naicos: 0.37

1% ers:
Danger: 1.31
GAJ: 1.21
Martin: 1.13
Naicos: 0.51

Naicos 2023-25 is not quite in the same ballpark as those other 3. Particularly when you consider GAJ did it in a bottom team, and in that 3-year period Martin dominated 2 x finals series and Grand Finals.

As I said, Naicos has time and he may get better and close the gap, but let's not get carried away with 2023-25 just because he polls well in subjective awards.

Of those lists above Naicos is last in 9 of them and second bottom in all other except disposals. If you remove kick-outs he'd go to bottom 2 in that also.

Bingo. And in none of those seasons was Daicos the undisputed best player/had the strongest season in the comp. Dangerfield in 2017 was just unlucky Dusty was around, because in reality his season (even with only one truly outstanding final) was well above the recent Daicos + Bontempelli ones. Martin's finals exploits speak for themselves after strong (and one incredible) H&A seasons. As does the rareified air Ablett was in. Daicos hasn't gotten close to those peaks and of course at his age it isn't expected. So now we'll see how far he can lift it to start comparing with the types of seasons you've highlighted (and with Ablett you really could pick any of the 8 - 2007-2009 and 2012-2014 are just the more decorated stretches).

 

[Mr Meow]

They are unhinged, deranged and absolutely terrified about what is to come from the future GOAT and possible GTWEB

Here comes adhom city instead of discussing football with facts and arguments.