Opinion NMFC Board Cricket Thread III

[Kangaroos4eva]

Ricky Ponting on Channel 7: talking about Bethell.




"What a knock we’ve just witnessed. It’s been flawless, it’s been classy, it’s been brutal at times. Some of his strokeplay has been as good as we’ve seen from anyone. Front and back foot. Navigated his way through the nineties, I can’t imagine what his heart rate would’ve been when he was on ninety-nine...




"We were all saying in the back of the box, use your feet, get down the wicket and he did. Put it on the half-volley, dragged it through the leg side and what a moment for him and all of his family. Tears of joy."

He looks seriously classy and talented. With good coaching, he can be a gun batting all rounder.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Just leave Beau to fill the all rounder spot for 2-3 years until someone can push him out.

 

[Marstermind]

More stupidity now with the run out. I have never seen a team screw up so much and its not like they have no talent. Its like they have gift wrapped the ashes to the Aussies on a platter. I dont think the Aussies needed to turn up. England would have lost it even if they were the only side playing. Thats how much stupidity has gone on

Underselling the Aussies here. Everything you say is true. But with no Hazlewood, very little Cummins or Lyon and a patchwork batting line up, they've been too smart, too professional, worked harder and much much tougher.

It's fair to criticise England, but unfair for giving no credit to Australia for being everything England weren't. Ungracious to say the Aussies got it gift wrapped.

 

[Samsquanch]

All test the commentators have been defending/talking up Green.

They have since he came in. It's weird.

 

[Hojuman]

When you need a wicket, who you gunna call ?

 

[roo blitz]

Underselling the Aussies here. Everything you say is true. But with no Hazlewood, very little Cummins or Lyon and a patchwork batting line up, they've been too smart, too professional, worked harder and much much tougher.

It's fair to criticise England, but unfair for giving no credit to Australia for being everything England weren't. Ungracious to say the Aussies got it gift wrapped.

Agree the Aussies have been much more smarter and deserve the result. Head and Starc have been brilliant but England have caused much of their demise themselves in all honesty. Even now the Jacks and Smith wickets have just been given away and Stokes on one leg was never going to survive long thats why they needed to be smart and not give wickets away. I know people keep saying no Hazelwood , Cummins and Lyon to a certain extent but also Archer, Wood, Atkinson have missed large chunks of the series. It was really lost before they got here with no prep and wrong team selections. Hopefully this will be a wake up call to them because had they played smarter cricket and caught their chances it could have been a lot different. I think this series will always be remembered for the class of Head, Starc & Carey and the stupidity of England, It hasnt been a high standard series at all.

 

[roo blitz]

When you need a wicket, who you gunna call ?

Some would say stupidity in this series

 

[Hojuman]

People worried about chasing a smallish target. There's been over 1250 runs scored and 4 big hundreds.

 

[DuckYeah]

More stupidity now with the run out. I have never seen a team screw up so much and its not like they have no talent. Its like they have gift wrapped the ashes to the Aussies on a platter. I dont think the Aussies needed to turn up. England would have lost it even if they were the only side playing. Thats how much stupidity has gone on

Best shit ever

 

[Marstermind]

Agree the Aussies have been much more smarter and deserve the result. Head and Starc have been brilliant but England have caused much of their demise themselves in all honesty. Even now the Jacks and Smith wickets have just been given away and Stokes on one leg was never going to survive long thats why they needed to be smart and not give wickets away. I know people keep saying no Hazelwood , Cummins and Lyon to a certain extent but also Archer, Wood, Atkinson have missed large chunks of the series. It was really lost before they got here with no prep and wrong team selections. Hopefully this will be a wake up call to them because had they played smarter cricket and caught their chances it could have been a lot different. I think this series will always be remembered for the class of Head, Starc & Carey and the stupidity of England, It hasnt been a high standard series at all.

Basically, the folly of Bazball has now been exposed. It was fun while it lasted — but that period was shorter than its advocates would like to admit.

“No fear of failure”, prioritising enjoyment and self-expression, avoiding introspection, praising everything and banishing negativity all sound noble enough. I’m sure the players have enjoyed themselves. But in any high-performance environment, that mindset quickly leads to poor discipline, limited growth, a lack of consequences for failure, and groupthink. Self-belief mutates into self-delusion and complancy. External critique is dismissed as the grumbling of has-beens - especially when early results appear to vindicate the approach
.
England’s belief that they could simply turn up here, under-prepared and under-planned, and still compete was pure idiocy. Bazball has created an environment in which the team is now demonstrably worse than its talent should allow. For all its supposed innovation, it has removed rigour, humility and adaptability - the very traits required to succeed away from home.

It may have been entertaining. But in an elite competitive arena, it has proven to be an unmitigated disaster. An ordinary Australian side has embarrassed them this summer.

 

[DuckYeah]

People worried about chasing a smallish target. There's been over 1250 runs scored and 4 big hundreds.

Day 5 pitch could fall apart. It would be a hard chase 200+

 

[roo blitz]

People worried about chasing a smallish target. There's been over 1250 runs scored and 4 big hundreds.

Pressure does funny things to teams but I doubt Englands current bowlers are bowling well enough and Stokes wont be bowling and probably not even on the field being on 1 leg. His bowling would have been handy on this pitch. Tongue is the one to watch if he can get it to swing as he normally does. Head will probably attack early as he did in Perth but if he gets out early it could be interesting. Knowing England in this series they will probably throw their 2 final wickets away tomoz and then drop 3 crucial catches. Heads will drop and it will be an 8 or 9 wicket win to Aussies who deserve to win 4-1. Its probably the best thing England losing 4-1 as it will put pressure on the way they are playing and result in change. A 3-2 result would cover a lot of cracks and probably not result in much change which would be bad for them. Interesting with Bethell being referred to Lara in his junior days as Lara scored his first 100 in Sydney as well and named his daughter Sydney. Be interesting to see how Bethell's career goes. He has all the confidence and ability. Lara was a very special player .

 

[Marstermind]

Day 5 pitch could fall apart. It would be a hard chase 200+

It'd have to fall apart quick. And I can't see Jacks or Bethell spinning them to a collapse. Carse and Potts are pie chuckers and there's no Stokes. Tongue would have to take a ten for.

But yes, if Bethell, Potts and Tongue could get the lead up to 200+ they would deserve having a chance.

 

[DuckYeah]

Hojuman obviously we aren’t Englands level of handling pressure, but we aren’t that much superior

 

[kanga kanga kanga]

Positives:

Tall

Take it to the ccj thread

 

[roo blitz]

Basically, the folly of Bazball has now been exposed. It was fun while it lasted — but that period was shorter than its advocates would like to admit.

“No fear of failure”, prioritising enjoyment and self-expression, avoiding introspection, praising everything and banishing negativity all sound noble enough. I’m sure the players have enjoyed themselves. But in any high-performance environment, that mindset quickly leads to poor discipline, limited growth, a lack of consequences for failure, and groupthink. Self-belief mutates into self-delusion and complancy. External critique is dismissed as the grumbling of has-beens - especially when early results appear to vindicate the approach
.
England’s belief that they could simply turn up here, under-prepared and under-planned, and still compete was pure idiocy. Bazball has created an environment in which the team is now demonstrably worse than its talent should allow. For all its supposed innovation, it has removed rigour, humility and adaptability - the very traits required to succeed away from home.

It may have been entertaining. But in an elite competitive arena, it has proven to be an unmitigated disaster. An ordinary Australian side has embarrassed them this summer.

I actually was a bazball fan at first and in the early days it worked well. There is no doubt they had the Aussies all over the place in the last 3 matches over in England. After that was when it started to fall apart.They then got to far ahead of themselves and too pig headed and believed their own publicity. If anything Head has taken what Bazball should have developed into and made it his own style with brilliant success. Root lost his way with Bazball and only starting making 100s again when he went back to playing the way he use to. Brook has so much talent but is a reckless cricketer. He is averaging 55 but could be averaging 70 at the moment if he wasnt so stupid. No way should he be vice captain. Look at all his starts on this tour and then throws it away . Fancy 40s dont win you test matches over here

 

[roo blitz]

It'd have to fall apart quick. And I can't see Jacks or Bethell spinning them to a collapse. Carse and Potts are pie chuckers and there's no Stokes. Tongue would have to take a ten for.

But yes, if Bethell, Potts and Tongue could get the lead up to 200+ they would deserve having a chance.

I think Bethell will attack tomoz. Its no good him pushing it around. Potts can bat. He has a highest first class of 149 fairly recently so is not a bunny and I've seen him bowl some really good accurate spells before unlike the first innings which was rubbish. Again though he hasn't played a decent game for months so has no proper prep before being thrown into this test match due to all the other bowlers going down injured.
Hopefully all touring teams get proper warm up games otherwise teams will always struggle when overseas.
Also for poms to be competative in Australia they need to play Sheffield shield games here as the Aussies do in the UK before a tour.

 

[DuckYeah]

i just saw Uzzie running up to shake the young campaigners hand at stumps.. **** off Uzzie

 

[Hojuman]

Hojuman obviously we aren’t Englands level of handling pressure, but we aren’t that much superior

Win easily ( or troll them and Boland to hit a winning 6 at 9 down )

 

[Marstermind]

I think was Bazball was became a victim of typical media oversimplification. Aggressive batting which turned into terrible shot selection and over confidence was only a symptom.

I'm fascinated in group culture in any organisation. Baz came in and freed up a group with poor self belief and negative mind set and gave them something. They could chase down any target, win overseas bring the fans to their feet. But as better coached teams began picking it apart, complacency set it, technical improvement was ignored and now the team is collectively less than the sum of its parts.

The good news is that I only see two players as genuine Bazballers who would find the transition to a more professional and traditional approach difficult - Duckett and Smith. Root and Stokes are simply elite, Brook is so classy he could adapt. Bethell has the world ahead of him. Crawley is as ordinary as he was four years ago and Jacks isn't Test class. England should be miles ahead of Australia by the 2027 series given the age of the best Aussies. But they have to be way better off the field between then and now.

 

[Chip Scab1]

They have since he came in. It's weird.

We have the same issues on our board... people talk up Simpkins, Daniels & Stephen and the other misery-bringers.

Darling has been wonderful though, rate him as a human and as a good older head to have around. He's a Shinboner IMO.

Basically, the folly of Bazball has now been exposed. It was fun while it lasted — but that period was shorter than its advocates would like to admit.

“No fear of failure”, prioritising enjoyment and self-expression, avoiding introspection, praising everything and banishing negativity all sound noble enough. I’m sure the players have enjoyed themselves. But in any high-performance environment, that mindset quickly leads to poor discipline, limited growth, a lack of consequences for failure, and groupthink. Self-belief mutates into self-delusion and complancy. External critique is dismissed as the grumbling of has-beens - especially when early results appear to vindicate the approach
.
England’s belief that they could simply turn up here, under-prepared and under-planned, and still compete was pure idiocy. Bazball has created an environment in which the team is now demonstrably worse than its talent should allow. For all its supposed innovation, it has removed rigour, humility and adaptability - the very traits required to succeed away from home.

It may have been entertaining. But in an elite competitive arena, it has proven to be an unmitigated disaster. An ordinary Australian side has embarrassed them this summer.

Agree with everything except ordinary Aussie side. Sure this isn't an amazing Aussie side, those that are available... but it has got 3 absolute champions in Smith, Starc and Head, who have played unbelievably well. Chuck in Carey who's on his way to being better than Rod Marsh probably, so basically 2 absolute all-time Champions, 1 Champion and 1 nearly (who'll likely end his career as one).... it's hardly an ordinary Aussie side, Sr 'Mind.

I don't see any Gregg Campbells running around. Or Trevor Hohns, or "Pistol" and his poop medium pace off cutters rolling around.

Chuck in Hazlewood and Cummins and it's one of our truly great teams, I'd have thought.

 

[roo blitz]

I think was Bazball was became a victim of typical media oversimplification. Aggressive batting which turned into terrible shot selection and over confidence was only a symptom.

I'm fascinated in group culture in any organisation. Baz came in and freed up a group with poor self belief and negative mind set and gave them something. They could chase down any target, win overseas bring the fans to their feet. But as better coached teams began picking it apart, complacency set it, technical improvement was ignored and now the team is collectively less than the sum of its parts.

The good news is that I only see two players as genuine Bazballers who would find the transition to a more professional and traditional approach difficult - Duckett and Smith. Root and Stokes are simply elite, Brook is so classy he could adapt. Bethell has the world ahead of him. Crawley is as ordinary as he was four years ago and Jacks isn't Test class. England should be miles ahead of Australia by the 2027 series given the age of the best Aussies. But they have to be way better off the field between then and now.

Very well said although I think Jamie Smith will be really good in the future. Not the best tour for him. He has played a couple of silly shots to get out but has also been unlucky to get run out and get a bizarre review decision go against him. He has dropped a few catches but has been tidy for most of the series. He is getting judged against Carey who had had a great series. Going into this series I had Smith ahead as a better batsmen than Carey and both of them almost equal with the gloves although the keeping has now clearly been won by Carey. Carey also bizarrely got a decision go in his favour on review when he was out and got dropped a few times only to go on and make some decent scores. Its just the way it goes but right now Carey is a class ahead of Smith. I think Smith may well be a full time batter in the future. He is good enough and only young.

 

[king rising]

Some of the shots Bethell played today were that of a superstar.

Back foot drives, cut shots, cover drives, pull shots, defence under his eyes.

He’s just 22 years old. Brilliant.

 

[King Corey]

Some of the shots Bethell played today were that of a superstar.

Back foot drives, cut shots, cover drives, pull shots, defence under his eyes.

He’s just 22 years old. Brilliant.

Should be a great talent for many years for the West Indies England and Wales.

 

[Chip Scab1]

Should be a great talent for many years for the West Indies England and Wales.

Barbados' own. Get around him.