No Oppo Supporters Non Bulldog Footy Talk - Bulldogs only - Part 4

[Norm De Guerre]

Looks like one of the daftest ever player movements may have finally arrived at the station of 'I told you so', with talk of Braydon Preuss looking for an out from his contract with The Demons.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Sadly, this has tragic ending written all over it.

Harley Bennell 'going out for days' before hospitalisation

The 27-year-old was found by police after they were called to a disturbance on the Gold Coast.

7news.com.au

 

[dogwatch]

More signs that things might be in a bad way at Adelaide FC. Tyson Stengle and Brad Crouch (who is exploring his options as a free agent) were caught with illicit drugs by police at 5:15am yesterday. They were out and about in a taxi.

In a cliched response they were reported to be "really embarrassed [and] disappointed". Give us a break fellas. Just don't do it.
Stengle is already dealing with a drink driving charge from earlier this year.

No schadenfreude here. We've had our Hunter incident only recently.

Are these just isolated incidents that could happen anywhere or is it a club that is lacking strong leadership and that has lost its way both on and off the field? From a distance it's looking a bit like the latter. For their sake I hope not. That's not a good place for any club to be. We should know.

Two Crows players allegedly caught with drugs in CBD in 'significant breach'

The Adelaide Football Club says Brad Crouch and Tyson Stengle were stopped by police and allegedly caught in possession of an illicit substance in the city early this morning.

www.abc.net.au

 

[BEaston]

More signs that things might be in a bad way at Adelaide FC. Tyson Stengle and Brad Crouch (who is exploring his options as a free agent) were caught with illicit drugs by police at 5:15am yesterday. They were out and about in a taxi.

In a cliched response they were reported to be "really embarrassed [and] disappointed". Give us a break fellas. Just don't do it.
Stengle is already dealing with a drink driving charge from earlier this year.

No schadenfreude here. We've had our Hunter incident only recently.

Are these just isolated incidents that could happen anywhere or is it a club that is lacking strong leadership and that has lost its way both on and off the field? From a distance it's looking a bit like the latter. For their sake I hope not. That's not a good place for any club to be. We should know.

Two Crows players allegedly caught with drugs in CBD in 'significant breach'

The Adelaide Football Club says Brad Crouch and Tyson Stengle were stopped by police and allegedly caught in possession of an illicit substance in the city early this morning.

www.abc.net.au

This is happening at every club, including the most successful ones, Hawks in their dynasty, Tigers currently, etc. It's nothing to do with how the club is going on or off the field.
The only difference is these two got caught (this time)

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Are these just isolated incidents that could happen anywhere or is it a club that is lacking strong leadership and that has lost its way both on and off the field? From a distance it's looking a bit like the latter. For their sake I hope not. That's not a good place for any club to be. We should know.

Two Crows players allegedly caught with drugs in CBD in 'significant breach'

The Adelaide Football Club says Brad Crouch and Tyson Stengle were stopped by police and allegedly caught in possession of an illicit substance in the city early this morning.

www.abc.net.au

Id go with the former. I doubt that the proportion of drug takers at Adelaide is any more than any other club or amongst their age demographic. I'm guessing that they thought that now the season was over for them that they were out from under the heavy thumb and scrutiny of the AFL. Forgetting that the thumb of government was much heavier. Nobody has ever accused young footballers of being the sharpest knives in the draw and they are especially blunt at 5:15am.

 

[BEaston]

Sadly, this has tragic ending written all over it.

Harley Bennell 'going out for days' before hospitalisation

The 27-year-old was found by police after they were called to a disturbance on the Gold Coast.

7news.com.au

Not good at all

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

You’ve got to be really dumb to get caught with drugs. You can literally do lines in car parks around people and not get caught.

Not advocating what they’ve done but does seem a bit on the nose. Pardon the pun.

Dumb either way.

 

[Leon]

Just saw a rumour that Norf are considering picking up Heath Shaw on a one year deal, as if I needed another reason to hate that c-unit.

 

[weltschmerz]

Elijah Taylor has pleaded guilty.

 

[Some Idiot]

More signs that things might be in a bad way at Adelaide FC. Tyson Stengle and Brad Crouch (who is exploring his options as a free agent) were caught with illicit drugs by police at 5:15am yesterday. They were out and about in a taxi.

In a cliched response they were reported to be "really embarrassed [and] disappointed". Give us a break fellas. Just don't do it.
Stengle is already dealing with a drink driving charge from earlier this year.

No schadenfreude here. We've had our Hunter incident only recently.

Are these just isolated incidents that could happen anywhere or is it a club that is lacking strong leadership and that has lost its way both on and off the field? From a distance it's looking a bit like the latter. For their sake I hope not. That's not a good place for any club to be. We should know.

Two Crows players allegedly caught with drugs in CBD in 'significant breach'

The Adelaide Football Club says Brad Crouch and Tyson Stengle were stopped by police and allegedly caught in possession of an illicit substance in the city early this morning.

www.abc.net.au

The Drug culture in the afl competition and even the broader football community is out of control in my opinion. Just happens that these guys got caught.

 

[dogwatch]

The Drug culture in the afl competition and even the broader football community is out of control in my opinion. Just happens that these guys got caught.

Which raises an interesting question ... why does nobody talk about this in the media? Taboo topic?

Or is it simply that it's at the same level as the general population of males aged 18-32?

 

[wayniac]

Which raises an interesting question ... why does nobody talk about this in the media? Taboo topic?

Or is it simply that it's at the same level as the general population of males aged 18-32?

It seems to be normalised now. No real outrage. Older folks like me just shake our heads. Younger folks think it's acceptable.

We need proper debate about legalisation of drugs. Once it happens, "Brave New World" becomes reality.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Which raises an interesting question ... why does nobody talk about this in the media? Taboo topic?

Or is it simply that it's at the same level as the general population of males aged 18-32?

There seems to be an 'everyone does it so it's ok' response to it.

Personally I find the 'pfft so what player X did a few lines' drugs are cool crowd far more annoying than the 'drugs are bad m'kay' crowd.

 

[Sentinel]

Which raises an interesting question ... why does nobody talk about this in the media? Taboo topic?

Or is it simply that it's at the same level as the general population of males aged 18-32?

Maybe the journalists are also afraid of being called out as hypocrites?

 

[dogwatch]

Maybe the journalists are also afraid of being called out as hypocrites?

Doesn't seem to be an issue for a lot of them. Well, some of them anyway.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Are we talking any time period? Because if so, the Nathan Carroll is hands down the winner.

View attachment 970748

Walks into the hairdresser and says ‘I want the frightened cockatoo look, please’.

 

[BEaston]

Which raises an interesting question ... why does nobody talk about this in the media? Taboo topic?

Or is it simply that it's at the same level as the general population of males aged 18-32?

Sentinel is spot on. Media types are not abstinent. They are probably taking illicit drugs more often than players.

I'm sure media would be all over any public story like when Libba was found, but I don't think it would serve them any purpose to try to "out" drug takers that are known behind the scenes.

It seems to be normalised now. No real outrage. Older folks like me just shake our heads. Younger folks think it's acceptable.

We need proper debate about legalisation of drugs. Once it happens, "Brave New World" becomes reality.

Actually alcohol and drug usage is lower in millennials than in previous generations. Boomers take the cake for alcohol and drug use by a fair margin.

The effects of soma in Brave New World are more in line with anti-depressant type drugs which are currently already legal, so yeah don't think that's really an apt comparison regarding legalisation at all.

 

[wayniac]

Sentinel is spot on. Media types are not abstinent. They are probably taking illicit drugs more often than players.

I'm sure media would be all over any public story like when Libba was found, but I don't think it would serve them any purpose to try to "out" drug takers that are known behind the scenes.


Actually alcohol and drug usage is lower in millennials than in previous generations. Boomers take the cake for alcohol and drug use by a fair margin.

The effects of soma in Brave New World are more in line with anti-depressant type drugs which are currently already legal, so yeah don't think that's really an apt comparison regarding legalisation at all.

Nice try but not backed up by the facts. Government study says this:

Data from the 2019 NDSHS indicated that a higher proportion of people in older age groups have given up alcohol, compared with younger people. In 2019, people in their 50s (9.6%), 60s (12.7%), and those aged 70 and over (16.1%) were more likely to be ex-drinkers than were people aged 14 and over (8.9%) (AIHW 2020b) (Table S3.33).

I'm sure that "back in the day" Boomers got it on with various drugs but for purely economic reasons we weren't cashed up enough to over consume. It's a major reason I didn't smoke. Alcohol consumption was limited to after rugby drinking and the availability of drugs was extremely limited. You never saw boats being apprehended with narcotics valued in millions.

 

[Golden_6]

Nice try but not backed up by the facts. Government study says this:

Data from the 2019 NDSHS indicated that a higher proportion of people in older age groups have given up alcohol, compared with younger people. In 2019, people in their 50s (9.6%), 60s (12.7%), and those aged 70 and over (16.1%) were more likely to be ex-drinkers than were people aged 14 and over (8.9%) (AIHW 2020b) (Table S3.33).

I'm sure that "back in the day" Boomers got it on with various drugs but for purely economic reasons we weren't cashed up enough to over consume. It's a major reason I didn't smoke. Alcohol consumption was limited to after rugby drinking and the availability of drugs was extremely limited. You never saw boats being apprehended with narcotics valued in millions.

High risk alcohol and drug consumption in younger people in Australia has actually declined in the past 20 years so that doesn’t stack up.

Of course people give it up when they’re older because they don’t want to suffer the significant health impacts, but that’s not what you were arguing. You made a generalised statement against younger people when the statistics are the opposite and trends are down from the past.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Another quality analysis piece from the ABC.

Geelong star Patrick Dangerfield is approaching an AFL record no-one wants to hold

Geelong's Patrick Dangerfield is approaching an AFL record no-one wants to hold

He owns a Brownlow medal and multiple All-Australian blazers, but Geelong’s Patrick Dangerfield is still hunting the AFL’s ultimate prize. Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson examine how we should evaluate a player’s true success.

www.abc.net.au

 

[BEaston]

Nice try but not backed up by the facts. Government study says this:

Data from the 2019 NDSHS indicated that a higher proportion of people in older age groups have given up alcohol, compared with younger people. In 2019, people in their 50s (9.6%), 60s (12.7%), and those aged 70 and over (16.1%) were more likely to be ex-drinkers than were people aged 14 and over (8.9%) (AIHW 2020b) (Table S3.33).

I'm sure that "back in the day" Boomers got it on with various drugs but for purely economic reasons we weren't cashed up enough to over consume. It's a major reason I didn't smoke. Alcohol consumption was limited to after rugby drinking and the availability of drugs was extremely limited. You never saw boats being apprehended with narcotics valued in millions.

Of course over time more people give up alcohol as they get older. That's plainly obvious. This kind of disingenuous/misleading posting is typical. Your boat comment is a strawman as well. Nice try to you.

I was talking about alcohol/drug usage of the different generations at the same age.

Drug and Alcohol Abuse Across Generations - DrugAbuse.com

Learn generational addiction statistics and how to find help for drug or alcohol misuse by means of professional treatment programs.

drugabuse.com

Maria drinks twice as much as her millennial son. It's a common story

A 53-year-old mother out-drinking her 19-year-old son may be surprising, but new data shows this is a common trend for Australia's older generations.

www.abc.net.au

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onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Results

: The NDSHS survey estimates still track apparent consumption well, which increases between 2001 and 2007 and then declines to 2013. Since 2007, survey estimates show a 10.5% decline in per capita alcohol consumption, compared with 8.9% in ABS data. Two‐thirds of the decline came from reductions in drinking among respondents under 30.

Millennials Are Sick of Drinking

But they’re not giving up booze just yet.

www.theatlantic.com

Completely off topic now anyways.

 

[LittleG]

Nice try but not backed up by the facts. Government study says this:

Data from the 2019 NDSHS indicated that a higher proportion of people in older age groups have given up alcohol, compared with younger people. In 2019, people in their 50s (9.6%), 60s (12.7%), and those aged 70 and over (16.1%) were more likely to be ex-drinkers than were people aged 14 and over (8.9%) (AIHW 2020b) (Table S3.33).

I'm sure that "back in the day" Boomers got it on with various drugs but for purely economic reasons we weren't cashed up enough to over consume. It's a major reason I didn't smoke. Alcohol consumption was limited to after rugby drinking and the availability of drugs was extremely limited. You never saw boats being apprehended with narcotics valued in millions.

The number used above about ex-drinkers by definition doesn’t include those yet to try or those who have chosen abstinence. It also starts at 14 (below legal drinking age) and covers all age groups, including the 50+ year olds. These numbers are particularly not useful when the other other poster is talking about abstinence in youth, who won’t be able to be ex-drinkers IF they have never tried it.

 

[compact72]

Another quality analysis piece from the ABC.

Geelong star Patrick Dangerfield is approaching an AFL record no-one wants to hold

Geelong's Patrick Dangerfield is approaching an AFL record no-one wants to hold

He owns a Brownlow medal and multiple All-Australian blazers, but Geelong’s Patrick Dangerfield is still hunting the AFL’s ultimate prize. Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson examine how we should evaluate a player’s true success.

www.abc.net.au

Hopefully, they can do another analysis piece in a few weeks which is another 2 losses to his name

 

[dogwatch]

Another quality analysis piece from the ABC.

Geelong star Patrick Dangerfield is approaching an AFL record no-one wants to hold

Geelong's Patrick Dangerfield is approaching an AFL record no-one wants to hold

He owns a Brownlow medal and multiple All-Australian blazers, but Geelong’s Patrick Dangerfield is still hunting the AFL’s ultimate prize. Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson examine how we should evaluate a player’s true success.

www.abc.net.au

What I picked up from that piece was that we manage to have the equal second least number of defensive 1-on-1 contests BUT we have the second worst loss rate in contesting them. Interesting to note that St Kilda is the club that has least and loses most! In other words generally our midfield pressure and zone defence are effective but when they break down we are more likely to concede goals than a side that has strong 1-on-1 defenders. I wouldn't mind seeing the success rate of each of our defenders in 1v1s. I suspect Bailey Williams would be fairly high up on our list, as would Keath and maybe Gardner (after the Brisbane game).

At the other end of the ground we have the 7th most number of 1v1s in attack but have the 4th worst success rate in them. (St Kilda has the least number of 1v1s in attack - about 20% fewer than us - and has the 6th worst success rate so clearly that's not their main goalscoring avenue.)

Generally these are very thought provoking articles because they use different tools to crunch the numbers for a new perspective on what's going on. The aim would be to go beyond the trite or simplistic analysis that is often used in mainstream commentary. They need to be careful they don't overdo the cherrypicking though. The more scientific approach would be to decide what should be the key indicators BEFORE you look at the results ... then publish them all. However the scientific approach doesn't usually lend itself to eye-catching assertions. As an example, effective disposals (or disposals that result in another team disposal) might be an important stat for Dangerfield rather than just total disposals.

There are ways to interpret such data that don't really detract from Dangerfield's stats too much, but simply saying: "in the game of territory and possession, you want to gain the former if you lose the latter" is a bit obvious and can be applied to lots of turnover merchants who are nowhere near as good as Dangerfield.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

What I picked up from that piece was that we manage to have the equal second least number of defensive 1-on-1 contests BUT we have the second worst loss rate in contesting them. Interesting to note that St Kilda is the club that has least and loses most! In other words generally our midfield pressure and zone defence are effective but when they break down we are more likely to concede goals than a side that has strong 1-on-1 defenders. I wouldn't mind seeing the success rate of each of our defenders in 1v1s. I suspect Bailey Williams would be fairly high up on our list, as would Keath and maybe Gardner (after the Brisbane game).

At the other end of the ground we have the 7th most number of 1v1s in attack but have the 4th worst success rate in them. (St Kilda has the least number of 1v1s in attack - about 20% fewer than us - and has the 6th worst success rate so clearly that's not their main goalscoring avenue.)

Generally these are very thought provoking articles because they use different tools to crunch the numbers for a new perspective on what's going on. The aim would be to go beyond the trite or simplistic analysis that is often used in mainstream commentary. They need to be careful they don't overdo the cherrypicking though. The more scientific approach would be to decide what should be the key indicators BEFORE you look at the results ... then publish them all. As an example, effective disposals (or disposals that result in another team disposal) might be an important stat for Dangerfield rather than just total disposals.

There are ways to interpret such data that don't really detract from Dangerfield's stats too much but simply saying: "in the game of territory and possession, you want to gain the former if you lose the latter" is a bit obvious and can be applied to lots of turnover merchants who are nowhere near as good as Dangerfield.

I guess the thing is, no one indicator would work for all sides - for example a team like Geelong wouldn't benefit as much from a half back playing like JJ, because they like to posses a lot more coming out of half back, compared to a team like us, who like to move it quickly.

Effective disposals can be misleading too I think - the Afl media uses that because it is easier fr the average fan. Clubs use a combination stat of exactly the two you mentioned - effective disposals and effective disposal assists (an effective disposal leading to an effective disposal).
That's why a guy like Caleb Daniel will only have a marginally better disposal efficiency than a lot of other players, whereas his kick rating (expected result of all kicks from that position/pressure from opponents etc. Averaged across the league ) is far superior to most.

An example to support this is JJ (I find a lot of my examples come back to him) in the Grand final. The biggest knock on him in that game was his disposal. He actually had a better disposal efficiency than Josh Kennedy in that game, and 11 more kicks, which carry greater margin for error, especially at his pace.
In fact he had a better DE than: Libba, Jack, M Boyd, Mitchell, Buddy, Heeney, Hannebery, Caleb, Macrae and Parker amongst others.

His effective disposal assists would have been quite a bit lower but his metres gained (350m higher than the next best) countered that.