Official Pick 11 Thread

[mdc]

Well, WCE had Pendles rated number #3 or so, by all reports

That's where the risk was taken then - it's inherently risky ranking Pendlebury at 3 with the assumption of upside over a more established, say, Nathan Jones.

See above. It's only a risk if they're paying a higher price for the "non-established" player, or their performances at junior level are markedly dissimilar. I don't think this is true in either case where we've paid highly for a "convert" player such as Pendles or Brown, nor where we've paid peanuts for Clarke, Keeffe, Dyas etc.

Not terribly in the know here, but I assumed Pendles' actual performance were of a lower standard than that produced by some of your safer picks like Ellis or Jones. We picked him on potential.

Three drafts? Or three injured players (Dawes/McCarthy/?)? Sorry mate, I'm not following.

3 years since we last missed the finals. In that time, we've had 3 top 8 picks. 3 finals losses. Ryan Lonie, who wears the number 3, mysteriously retired this season. We traded Rhyce Shaw for another 3rd round pick.

All things come in 3's. Coincidence? I don't think so.

(It was a typo, should have been *there )


Btw - I'm all for these risks. I'm just saying, I'm not sure I agree that we're taking the least risky route here.

 

[Skade]

This is taking a risk, no? He's gambling on them having higher scope for improvement based on their age, rather than taking an already established older player.

You're right about him minimising risk by going Victorian, but I don't think three's enough of a sample size to say one way or the other what his stance on injury-risk is. Statistically speaking, at least. You may have better info.

What Hine dose according to B&W mag-

When your assessing someone, they need a certain skill set, but its more than that. There are enormously talented players out there but don't have the physical capacity to play at the elite level. That's just a fact. That's where the balance is, see the potential and does he have the capacity to improve.

Lets say player A has 5-10% more ability than player B, but his coachability and work ethic is questionable. If player B's desire and
coachability is highly rated, we'll take player B every time. He'll want to learn and develop, its typical of guys that come through our rookie draft.

His preparation is simple. If the Pies last pick is 70, he enters the draft room with a list of players ranked one through 70. At each
Collingwood selection he'll nominate the next available from the list.

Hine gets the final say on draft day.

 

[Dave The Man]

He takes risks on players, there is no doubt in my mind. Ben Reid was a risk at pick 8 in a superdraft.

Heaps of potential, but he is by no means a safe bet. Nathan Brown was a safer bet, someone like Armitage would've been a reasonably safe bet.

We had 2 Top 10 Picks in 2006 and That's why he took the Risk with Reid, Who had the Biggest Celing and has the Potential to be the Best Player from that Draft.

Then he took the Safer Option with Brown

 

[Dave The Man]

Lets say player A has 5-10% more ability than player B, but his coachability and work ethic is questionable. If player B's desire and
coachability is highly rated, we'll take player B every time. He'll want to learn and develop, its typical of guys that come through our rookie draft.

I think that says A lot how Hine Drafts, Just have to Look at Brown, When he had the Great Start one thing the Coaches and Shifter said was how Coachable that Brown was and How he Worked Hard. Dawes has this and That would explain why we drafted Dawes over Tippet,McKenzie and some other Players and Pendles is very good example.

2 players I can think of with those Attributes that could be there at 11 is Swift and Lisle that I know of

 

[Dave The Man]

Well, if I'm to expand Dave, I like Blease, but don't find him as impressive as about 4-5 other blokes who should be available at 11. And when I say 4-5, thats not including Ziebell, Sidebottom or Hartlett.

Everyone's ranking is subjective. I dont' have Blease in my top 15, yet others do. So, obviously, by 11 there should be at least 4 blokes left available who are better than Blease, in my opinion.

And none of our opinions matter anyway, just Hine's, really.

Be Intrested to knwo who are those 4 Mids because I have Blease Equal 4th Best Mid in the Draft Alongside Swift

 

[Bay Pie]

The thing about Swift that some may have missed is that he hardly played this year, only played early on, but he got himself to a physical state to record a 14+ beep test, in the top 10 at draft camp.

This kid is very determined to do well. Also I'd read where his HSC score was 99

He just has something about him that says 'special' talent, like a quicker Joel Selwood.

 

[Optimax]

The thing about Swift that some may have missed is that he hardly played this year, only played early on, but he got himself to a physical state to record a 14+ beep test, in the top 10 at draft camp.

This kid is very determined to do well. Also I'd read where his HSC score was 99

He just has something about him that says 'special' talent, like a quicker Joel Selwood.

i dont think we would know his whatever its called in Wa score yet

 

[Bay Pie]

i dont think we would know his whatever its called in Wa score yet

Yeah I though that but I was 17 in year 12 and turned 18 my 1st year in the work force.

I think he turned 18 this year so presumed he was not at school this year.

Maybe I just got sucked into BF bullsh*t.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

That's where the risk was taken then - it's inherently risky ranking Pendlebury at 3 with the assumption of upside over a more established, say, Nathan Jones.

Riskier than taking the player ranked at #5 on BigFooty? I think you're making a significant assumption about where Pendles was rated by the AFL recruiting teams. Maybe Pendles would have been considered above Jones had his theoretical upside not been taken into account.

Not terribly in the know here, but I assumed Pendles' actual performance were of a lower standard than that produced by some of your safer picks like Ellis or Jones. We picked him on potential.

I'm not sure Ellis is a great comparison given he was still taken higher than Pendlebury. Also, we're not sure what the clubs were looking for in a player to give Pendlebury a rating above Jones (if in fact there were clubs other than WCE and us who did so, we actually don't know), so maybe Jones had more possessions or kicked more goals, but Pendles was a better kick (we know his kicking is generally excellent) or better overhead.

3 years since we last missed the finals. In that time, we've had 3 top 8 picks. 3 finals losses. Ryan Lonie, who wears the number 3, mysteriously retired this season. We traded Rhyce Shaw for another 3rd round pick.

All things come in 3's. Coincidence? I don't think so.

(It was a typo, should have been *there )

LOL.

 

[Dave The Man]

Snoops Write up on Blease:

Pick 11 Collingwood - Sam Blease (183cm / 72kg / Eastern Ranges)

I am just rapt to get this kid (many of my Pie colleagues are not). I think he is a really special talent and whilst I am not convinced he will go this early in the draft that matters very little to me. Having seen him a few times now I just see an x factor in this kid that you dont see very often. Its his explosive pace, ability to do things that influence games and finishing that just draw you to him. I liken him to Adam Cooney insomuch as he doesnt need to get 30 touches to influence a game because even if he only gets 20 - those 20 will hurt the opposition.

He hasnt played a great deal at TAC level and thats been largely bc of injuries at the start of the year. Notwithstanding he played for Metro and was very impressive at times (for those that have not seen him at TAC it was a very typical Blease display), the knock being he doesnt get enough of it. Whilst very true, I think thats fairly short sighted bc of the injury issues and also bc the kid is 17 and still developing his fitness base. Will prob start at HF but in 2-3 yrs will move to midfield. Better as an outside player but more than capable of winning his own footy and doing the little things that matter like chasing and tackling. Great get and delivers that x factor and class the Collingwood midfield desperately need.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

Be Intrested to knwo who are those 4 Mids because I have Blease Equal 4th Best Mid in the Draft Alongside Swift

Give ya my top 15 tomorrow Dave

 

[Dave The Man]

Give ya my top 15 tomorrow Dave

Be Interesting to see

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

Be Interesting to see

Blease isn't in my top 15, so I'll give you my top 20 Dave, and when I say top 20, this is the kind of list I'd go in with if I was Hine, not who I think are the best 20 kids are in the land. I've seen a bit of TAC Cup, a lot of U-18s, and some SANFL, thats it. The only one I haven't seen enough of is #10 on the list, but perhaps if I'd seen more he'd be higher up the list.

1. Rich
2. Watts
3. Vickery
4. Ziebell
5. Naitanui
6. Sidebottom
7. Hurley
8. Hartlett
9. Trengove
10. Swift
11. Hannebery
12. Yarran
13. Davis
14. Johnston
15. Smith
16. Strauss
17. Blease
18. Heyne
19. Beams
20. Lisle

 

[Dave The Man]

Blease isn't in my top 15, so I'll give you my top 20 Dave, and when I say top 20, this is the kind of list I'd go in with if I was Hine, not who I think are the best 20 kids are in the land. I've seen a bit of TAC Cup, a lot of U-18s, and some SANFL, thats it. The only one I haven't seen enough of is #10 on the list, but perhaps if I'd seen more he'd be higher up the list.

1. Rich
2. Watts
3. Vickery
4. Ziebell
5. Naitanui
6. Sidebottom
7. Hurley
8. Hartlett
9. Trengove
10. Swift
11. Hannebery
12. Yarran
13. Davis
14. Johnston
15. Smith
16. Strauss
17. Blease
18. Heyne
19. Beams
20. Lisle

Thanks Mate,

Interested in you having Hannebery,Davis, Straauss and Beams so High

Why do you have those Players ahead of Blease?

 

[Stifler's mom]

I think that says A lot how Hine Drafts, Just have to Look at Brown, When he had the Great Start one thing the Coaches and Shifter said was how Coachable that Brown was and How he Worked Hard. Dawes has this and That would explain why we drafted Dawes over Tippet,McKenzie and some other Players and Pendles is very good example.

2 players I can think of with those Attributes that could be there at 11 is Swift and Lisle that I know of

This is not true. We drafted Dawes after Tippet and Mckenzie were selected.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

Thanks Mate,

Interested in you having Hannebery,Davis, Straauss and Beams so High

Why do you have those Players ahead of Blease?

Hannebery looks a complete player, I think he's seriously underrated. Dunno if its his age, or what, but I've seen him live a few times, and he just looks a complete player. He's only just 6", but he has a massive tank. Looks to have the footy smarts too.

Strauss has tremendous foot skills, which can never go underappreciated, and isn't by any means slow. Highly efficient midfielders don't grow on trees. Really rate him. If he could slide to 29 that'd be very good.

Beams reminds me of Daisy in the sense that even though he doesn't look an outstanding prospect at underage, you just know that once he makes the transition he'll fit in, and do well. Bit of X-factor doesn't go astray either.

Those three against Blease, I'd just prefer to have them. If at pick 11, I had to chose between Strauss or Blease, I'd go Strauss, because I'd be happier with him. Just a feel thing I guess.

And with Davis, well, a very good CHB prospect, and along with Trengove, Lisle and Post, I'd like to have one of them down there just in case the likes of Anthony or Reid can't settle down in the backline.

All very subjective mate, hardly any two lists would be the same.

 

[Dave The Man]

This is not true. We drafted Dawes after Tippet and Mckenzie were selected.

That's what I meant Dawes had an Injured Knee Meaning a lot people thought we would get Dawes late in the Draft, So we Passed up on Picking Tippet and McKenzie becasue we thought that Dawes would not last to our Next Pick

 

[Dave The Man]

Hannebery looks a complete player, I think he's seriously underrated. Dunno if its his age, or what, but I've seen him live a few times, and he just looks a complete player. He's only just 6", but he has a massive tank. Looks to have the footy smarts too.

Strauss has tremendous foot skills, which can never go underappreciated, and isn't by any means slow. Highly efficient midfielders don't grow on trees. Really rate him. If he could slide to 29 that'd be very good.

Beams reminds me of Daisy in the sense that even though he doesn't look an outstanding prospect at underage, you just know that once he makes the transition he'll fit in, and do well. Bit of X-factor doesn't go astray either.

Those three against Blease, I'd just prefer to have them. If at pick 11, I had to chose between Strauss or Blease, I'd go Strauss, because I'd be happier with him. Just a feel thing I guess.

And with Davis, well, a very good CHB prospect, and along with Trengove, Lisle and Post, I'd like to have one of them down there just in case the likes of Anthony or Reid can't settle down in the backline.

All very subjective mate, hardly any two lists would be the same.

Thanks for you Point of View,

and you right could ask about another 10 People and Could be Totally Different, Good Example would be Where Wisbley had McCarthy as 11 Best player in the Draft and No one took him before our 1st Pick at 11.

1 Thing I think Pies will love about Blease is his Pressure and Tackling he can Apply and They are both Collingwood trade marks

 

[well left]

Blease isn't in my top 15, so I'll give you my top 20 Dave, and when I say top 20, this is the kind of list I'd go in with if I was Hine, not who I think are the best 20 kids are in the land. I've seen a bit of TAC Cup, a lot of U-18s, and some SANFL, thats it. The only one I haven't seen enough of is #10 on the list, but perhaps if I'd seen more he'd be higher up the list.

1. Rich
2. Watts
3. Vickery
4. Ziebell
5. Naitanui
6. Sidebottom
7. Hurley
8. Hartlett
9. Trengove
10. Swift
11. Hannebery
12. Yarran
13. Davis
14. Johnston
15. Smith
16. Strauss
17. Blease
18. Heyne
19. Beams
20. Lisle

Hannebery at 11 interests me a lot. What I have seen of him is very impressive and the reports on him do not show any deficiencies. I've always wondered why exactly he was rated around 20-30 when he looks as good as any other mid in the draft.

I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if we took him over Blease at 11.

It's a good list by the way.

 

[Quicky]

Hannebery looks a complete player, I think he's seriously underrated. Dunno if its his age, or what, but I've seen him live a few times, and he just looks a complete player. He's only just 6", but he has a massive tank. Looks to have the footy smarts too.

Strauss has tremendous foot skills, which can never go underappreciated, and isn't by any means slow. Highly efficient midfielders don't grow on trees. Really rate him. If he could slide to 29 that'd be very good.

Beams reminds me of Daisy in the sense that even though he doesn't look an outstanding prospect at underage, you just know that once he makes the transition he'll fit in, and do well. Bit of X-factor doesn't go astray either.

Those three against Blease, I'd just prefer to have them. If at pick 11, I had to chose between Strauss or Blease, I'd go Strauss, because I'd be happier with him. Just a feel thing I guess.

And with Davis, well, a very good CHB prospect, and along with Trengove, Lisle and Post, I'd like to have one of them down there just in case the likes of Anthony or Reid can't settle down in the backline.

All very subjective mate, hardly any two lists would be the same.

How do rate the KPBs in this draft?? Its interesting to see you rate Davis above Lisle and Post. What are their differences??

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

There must be something about Hannebery I don't know, because I think he is certainly in the top 10 midfielders in the draft, in fact I think he's close to the 5th or 6th best. Doesn't look to have too many real weaknesses. Good skills, good smarts, good tank. Like I said, something I must be missing.

I don't have much difference between Lisle and Post, in fact, on some days I'd probably prefer Post. I think once Davis has a few pre-seasons under his belt at AFL level, he will turn into the best defender of the bunch. I'm not sure if Lisle would make a better forward or defender, and Post, even though I've seen him the most out of the three, I think that I've seen more in Davis. Post has excellent defensive skills, but I think Davis' has less weakenesses than Post. Let's just say I'm more sold on Davis' potential than Post. But Post looks a likely type, and by no means a hack.

If I wanted a player for a KP back position down the line, this is my order: Hurley, Trengove, Davis, Lisle/Post (those two are really close for mine), Liam Jones, Jordan Jones.

 

[well left]

There must be something about Hannebery I don't know, because I think he is certainly in the top 10 midfielders in the draft, in fact I think he's close to the 5th or 6th best. Doesn't look to have too many real weaknesses. Good skills, good smarts, good tank. Like I said, something I must be missing.

I don't have much difference between Lisle and Post, in fact, on some days I'd probably prefer Post. I think once Davis has a few pre-seasons under his belt at AFL level, he will turn into the best defender of the bunch. I'm not sure if Lisle would make a better forward or defender, and Post, even though I've seen him the most out of the three, I think that I've seen more in Davis. Post has excellent defensive skills, but I think Davis' has less weakenesses than Post. Let's just say I'm more sold on Davis' potential than Post. But Post looks a likely type, and by no means a hack.

If I wanted a player for a KP back position down the line, this is my order: Hurley, Trengove, Davis, Lisle/Post (those two are really close for mine), Liam Jones, Jordan Jones.

Cheers mate. As I said, I don't think I would be too upset with Hannebery at 11 on the day.

I seem to write this a lot but thanks for your thoughts. As someone that does not get to see much junior footy your efforts are greatly appreciated.

 

[Bay Pie]

This is not true. We drafted Dawes after Tippet and Mckenzie were selected.

I think you'll find Dawes was pick 28 & Tippett 32. Not sure about McKenzie. I remember that because I thought we'd take Tippet at 28 because he was still available.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

I think Hannebery at 11 is fine, but because he doesn't seem as well rated around here as I think he should be, then I'm naturally a little hesitant about it. Just cynnical about my own opinion I guess, because everyone else's is so different.

In fact, if you quizzed most people who'd they prefer out of Blease and Hannebery, they'd go Blease, perhaps 80-20 split. I don't see it. I'd go Hannebery comfortably.

Never mind, like I've said before, our opinions don't matter so much, just Derek's.

 

[Quicky]

There must be something about Hannebery I don't know, because I think he is certainly in the top 10 midfielders in the draft, in fact I think he's close to the 5th or 6th best. Doesn't look to have too many real weaknesses. Good skills, good smarts, good tank. Like I said, something I must be missing.

I don't have much difference between Lisle and Post, in fact, on some days I'd probably prefer Post. I think once Davis has a few pre-seasons under his belt at AFL level, he will turn into the best defender of the bunch. I'm not sure if Lisle would make a better forward or defender, and Post, even though I've seen him the most out of the three, I think that I've seen more in Davis. Post has excellent defensive skills, but I think Davis' has less weakenesses than Post. Let's just say I'm more sold on Davis' potential than Post. But Post looks a likely type, and by no means a hack.

If I wanted a player for a KP back position down the line, this is my order: Hurley, Trengove, Davis, Lisle/Post (those two are really close for mine), Liam Jones, Jordan Jones.

Thanks for the info mate. Was just wondering why you rate Davis higher?? What characteristics of his do you see that will make him a better defender?? (compared to Post and Lisle) I think Post and Lisle are both a little inconsistent and Lisle has a poor kick?? But they are both taller than Davis I think?? From what I understand of Post his best is awesome and his worst is pretty ordinary. How are Davis's skills/defensive ability/speed/reading of the game??