Opinion Our ruck stocks

[fishardansin]

Cutting to the chase I think crap is the best description.

I don't rate Bellchambers. No matter how good he may have been if you spend as much time on the sidelines as he has you miss out on too much game experience. I actually think he's never really shown he'll be a number 1 ruck and he is too slow to be 2nd ruck.

Luenberger is ok, but he still moves like a baby giraffe in his late twenties. Injuries have been an issue through his career as well. Having said that, at best he'll be a trier who is just a tiny bit above spud levels at best.

McKernan. I think he has some potential as 2nd ruck. It has been pointed out by a few that he hasn't really every got it together as a forward. If we were to continue/improve our good form I'd love to see Hooker playing very deep forward, Daniher pushing up very high and McKernan somewhere in between. I think he has shown this year with his second efforts around the contest and involvement in handball chains he could be like that half forward who is not too far away from the midfield, while providing a decent marking option. When forward he can also take all the rucking duties allowing the other ruckman to save his legs and help out the zone behind the ball, or find space on the fat side.

We don't have anyone coming through. I have not seen Stewart play as 2nd ruck. I don't know of any getting ruckmen at the end of this season who will improve our stocks without making us have to trade away the farm. We all saw the difference to clearances for Brisbane that Stewart made.

I believe that our spine, midfield and small forwards are all coming together. Relying on Kelly and Baguely down back leaves us a little skinny there going forward, but we should be able to cover that. I don't see how we cover the ruck hole in our list, and this could be a big concern if we want to really challenge in a year or two. Can some of you more knowledgeable folk either put my mind at ease or confirm that we're rooted.

Cheers.

 

[Mootsy]

I disagree, i think all 4 are good options when fully fit and in form..

Stewart is the one they are training as an up and coming player.

 

[Pweter]

The issue is once they've physically matured enough to be considered true ruckmen, they're generally alpha dogs, they all want to be 1st ruck and get disgruntled if 2nd ruck or playing reserves. This makes having decent ruck depth a bit harder, especially as the game is leaning more towards mobility. I think if most clubs lose their number 1 ruck they'll look thin on ruck talent.

What we need is a ruckman who can do well at the stoppages but also has an impact clearance wise and around the ground. Leuenberger is good at the stoppages but not so good around the ground nor when the ball hits the deck, Smack is the complete opposite (but not consistent), TBC is half way between the 2 but has previously proven to be ok up forward (but we now have multiple talls in a functioning forward line anyway).

You hear talk of Draper's upside being enormous but you'd think he's still a few years away from having any real impact, that is if he can improve as much as predicted/anticipated/hoped. Is he our Cox/Sandilands type ruckman who starts as a rookie and with time develops into a quality ruck?

We don't have a quality ruckman with a rounded game for modern footy, but we certainly don't stink it up in the ruck department either. We have an "almost" ruck division.

 

[eth-dog]

Our ruck stocks are injury prone but good.

Bellchambers is a good player when he's fit and it finally seems as though he is, I don't buy the bullshit that he's too slow to play as a second ruck. David Hale, Kurt Tippett and Scott Lycett are examples of players who have successfully played as a second ruck/key forward in recent years that are slow, not to mention guys like Casboult, Griffen, Wright, Vickery, Bruce and Boyd who are either not good forwards or not good rucks that are also slow.

Leuenberger is easily top 10 rucks in the AFL, just outside the top 5 for me (have Jacobs, Grundy, Mumford, Gawn, Goldstein, Ryder and Nic Nat ahead). His tap work is excellent, and whilst his around the ground work isn't as good as the likes the players mentioned and Martin, he's certainly better than quite a few first rucks in the league.

McKernan is a poor player. He plays a good game and most people get excited but then he follows it up with a s**t one and the smart ones realise it's the same old Smack, remembering why he's only just played 50 games in his 8th year in the system, and only hitting double figures one year in that time. He's a VFL player, simple as that.

Draper is definitely a WIP. He's a good size and his tap work was good considering he only took up footy last year, and his athletic traits are certainly a bonus. I'm hoping he can show his wares in the VFL this season to give us a glimpse of what he could be in the future.

Given our two best rucks are injury prone and McKernan is a poor player, we definitely need to look for 2 mature aged rucks this year whilst likely delisting McKernan. Fraser McInness as a cheap forward/ruck option if need be, and Lewis Pierce, Billy Longer, Tom Downie, Tom Campbell, Zac Clarke, Matthew Lobbe and Callum Sinclair as possible options. Then others from various state leagues, not sure who from SA or WA but I like Tom Goodwin from Coburg in the VFL in that role.

 

[Paul_Barnard]

Leuenberger is easily top 10 rucks in the AFL, just outside the top 5 for me

He can't take a contest mark to save himself.. Solid AFL player but not consistent enough to be a top 10 ruckman..

 

[eth-dog]

He can't take a contest mark to save himself.. Solid AFL player but not consistent enough to be a top 10 ruckman..

Comfortably top 10. Contested marking isn't the be all and end all of ruckmen. His work at the stoppage and at ground level puts him ahead of many.

 

[eDPS]

Come on down Sam Hayes

 

[Killer_Mike]

Certainly an area of concern for us when considering the best sides have consistently been the ones that have high clearance numbers.

If Bellchambers can get back to his best form(and that's a big if) then he would be the one for me.

Leuenberger is a warrior and will put in week in week out when fit. Unfortunately his fitness cant be relied upon and for me his class is questionable.

I like what McKernan has to offer the most of the three for what he can offer around the ground but unfortunately he is very inconsistent. If he can break even in the ruck most weeks and can run off his opponent as he can then I see him as a real point of difference to the big lumbering style of rucks that most teams have.

If either Bellchambers or Leuenberger play then McKernan doesn't play. He just doesn't offer enough leading up to the ball so would prefer to see either a small player or Stewart who has more of a natural lead up game that can also offer a chop out in ruck.

Not sure of what the story was behind Nankervis going to Richmond but he would have been an ideal target.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

definatley the weak link in our chain.

Mckernan is a gun but just lacks height.

would love to see belly come back in but hes pretty inconsistent also.

 

[Yoda_]

Hypothetically should we finish off strong and finish top 8. Would we go after a ruck men to take us that next step?

 

[eth-dog]

Hypothetically should we finish off strong and finish top 8. Would we go after a ruck men to take us that next step?

No. Our two holes I see is that burst stoppage player (Dustin Martin, Gary Ablett type) and another key forward.

 

[Killer_Mike]

I found the comments by Luke Beveridge in regards to the new ruck rules and trialing no ruckman interesting.

Bit like the small ball revolution of NBA.

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

 

[Doss]

I think it is, as others have said, the weak link in our chain.

 

[Kakkle]

I would've liked to have seen us pick up a mature ruck in the Will Minson mould, purely someone who can come in when required, compete and not be a complete liability.

 

[Harlequin Dream]

From what I have gathered our strategy with rucks has been to pick up an underused one cheap and to try and find a rookie to develop.

Picked up Luenberger and rookied Gach. Obviously, Gach didn't work out, so we cut our losses quickly and rookied Draper. I think Draper is on track to be a good ruckman but we will know more by the end of the year. It's a really strong strategy.

I would prefer to stick with this strategy, target someone like Longer or pick up a sliding ruck in the late first round (see: Grundy and English). I would prefer not to target a ruckman that will cost us multiple picks like Grundy would.

 

[eth-dog]

I would've liked to have seen us pick up a mature ruck in the Will Minson mould, purely someone who can come in when required, compete and not be a complete liability.

Callum Sinclair would be nice. He's now the 4th in line ruck I believe at Sydney, and you can sell him that he's far more likely to get games as depth behind Leuey and Bellcho rather than Tippett, Naismith and Cameron at Sydney.

 

[citizen-erased]

they are not good
I would like us to be putting out there that we are in the market for a big $ move for a ruckman. Preferably one who can play as a mid. And his first name is Brodie....

 

[eth-dog]

they are not good
I would like us to be putting out there that we are in the market for a big $ move for a ruckman. Preferably one who can play as a mid. And his first name is Brodie....

I still don't understand why. It's not something you waste good money on.

 

[citizen-erased]

I still don't understand why. It's not something you waste good money on.

See Stef Martin's efforts on the weekend.
we lack two, maybe 3 important players to round out our 22.
1 ruckman
1 clearance mid
1 pacey back pocket to replace Bags.

 

[eth-dog]

See Stef Martin's efforts on the weekend.
we lack two, maybe 3 important players to round out our 22.
1 ruckman
1 clearance mid
1 pacey back pocket to replace Bags.

Look at the top 4 of last year:

Bulldogs: Roughead is okay.
Sydney: Tippett and Naismith are solid
Geelong: Smith is okay
GWS: Mumford is a gun

But they didn't really need that.

 

[MightyDons4]

I would've liked to have seen us pick up a mature ruck in the Will Minson mould, purely someone who can come in when required, compete and not be a complete liability.

That bloke from West Coast looked alright, Jon Giles was his name I think.

 

[citizen-erased]

Look at the top 4 of last year:

Bulldogs: Roughead is okay.
Sydney: Tippett and Naismith are solid
Geelong: Smith is okay
GWS: Mumford is a gun

But they didn't really need that.

true. But i think with the new rules in place with no 3rd man up, and the nature of our list, a good mobile ruck who can be a target for a kickout and be mobile around the ground will top us off nicely.
Im not looking to be as good as those 4 teams, looking to be better.
Grundy + Daniher playing his natural game give us two very mobile talls around the ground with big kicks.

 

[eth-dog]

true. But i think with the new rules in place with no 3rd man up, and the nature of our list, a good mobile ruck who can be a target for a kickout and be mobile around the ground will top us off nicely.
Im not looking to be as good as those 4 teams, looking to be better.
Grundy + Daniher playing his natural game give us two very mobile talls around the ground with big kicks.

Yeah. However I'd rather:

Leuenberger 1st ruck, Bellchambers 2nd, Callum Sinclair/Billy Longer etc 3rd and an explosive inside mid ala Martin

to

Grundy 1st ruck, Leuey 2nd, T-Bell 3rd and adding someone like Harley Balic.

 

[Blind Turn]

Preuss?? All you need is some Mumford-like presence and your mids walk a bit taller.

I actually still think Leuey and TBC can work with Smack and Draper in reserve. Just need a fit contingency. For the most part 3 of them will play VFL anyway. The bigger concern is who to play as our relief ruck to ensure that Joe isn't smashed up in duels with quality rucks. There's no room for a 3rd tall forward such as Stewart or TBC at this point and potentially for the foreseeable future.