Perhaps part of the reason why we are where we are today

[Hearts to hearts]

For years we do the same thing over analysing the coach, the players, staff at the club......changes continue to be made in all those areas of the club but nothing seems to change on field.

This may be a superstitious view but is there a stigma at the club that doesn't allow people the reach the heights they should or and desire to be at? The club has in the past talked about going from surviving to thriving from an off-field operating point of view.

Is the Shinboner Spirit motto having negative effect on the players? Like a subconscious voice goes off in your head every time you hear that motto that reminds you that you're at the smallest club in the AFL that hasn't done anything significant in 20+ years? Why am I here? I don't deserve success?

Does the horde of players from other clubs that we tried to get over to ours amplify that negativity? Why do all of these players don't want to come to club I play for? What's the problem?

It's a left of field take but something I've never seen mentioned on here.

Wasn‘t this mindset exactly what Brad Scott said he was addressing when he arrived, and never lived down being the guy who wanted to kill the shinboner spirit?

 

[Tiberius]

Hmm I don't think so. They needed some serious trade/free agency wins to get there.

Hewett, Saad, Martin, Lewis Young, Zac Williams, Adam Cerra, Pittonet, Setterfield all traded in. That's more than 1/3 of their 22.

Did I miss something? When did Carlton become competitive? Unless we define competitive as being somewhere in the middle of the ladder, which is exactly where we were and what everyone was complaining about before we started this rebuild journey.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Just felt like doing a little post to see where I think the list is at. I am by no means an expert in list management, but I feel as though we are much better placed for a consistent shot at finals in the coming seasons than what our performances so far this year are leading us to believe (forever the optimist). I'll list a few points below to explain why:

• The list below consists of players who IMO will form the nucleus of the side in the coming 2-3 seasons
• I have not included players who I feel won't play a part in our next premiership push as they will either be too old (Goldy, Ziebell etc.) or IMO won't make it (Hayden, McGuinness etc.)

B: _____ McKay Corr
HB: McDonald _____ Perez
C: Stephenson LDU Taylor
HF: Larkey Comben Thomas
F: Zurhaar CCJ Curtis
R: Xerri Simpkin JHF
I: Powell Phillips Anderson, Ford


Depth:
Backs
Young, Turner, Bonar, Bergman, Archer

Mids
Mahony, Scott, Lazzaro, Goater

Forwards
Bosenavulagi, Spicer

Ruck
Edwards

Didn't mean to intrude on your club forums like this but I just want to send my full support to your supporter base and even though it might feel tough getting smashed 10+ goals atm against quality opposition weekly, there is always light at the end of the tunnel and soon enough, one day you'll be back into finals & premiership contention (just like us & Melbourne have done in the past).

In regards to your squad in 2-3 years time, I can't speak on all the other clubs but you could possibly try to persuade Lester & Payne from our club in the next couple of years, to help fill those gaps in your squad and not cost much IMO (in terms of salary-cap/draft picks).

Ryan Lester (32 by 2025) is OOC this year at the Lions and can act as that Hodge-type role (albeit cheaper version) for your guys and help control & lead your D50 while also being component to play on small and tall forwards in the future, while Jack Payne (26 by 2025) is OOC in 2024 but has been getting enquires from Victorian clubs last year (i.e Western Bulldogs) about entertaining trade offers due to lack of chances in Brisbane and has been a serviceable centre half back/full back for us (when his opportunities came in our AFL team).

The other player from us that could be beneficial to your club (if going the 3 tall forward setup in the future) is McStay given the ability he has to set up the F50 and capable to play leading full-forward (if injuries occur to Larkey/Coleman-Jones), however I wouldn't be paying massive amounts for him even though there is a lack of tall forwards on the trade table atm and would search for a more-cheaper trade option for a 3rd tall forward, if I was part of the list management circles.

In regards to your squad then (with the additions of those 3 Lions players + Tstasas in this year's draft), the team already looks more improved by a mile and given there's 16 other clubs that you could still get players from, it doesn't take look from that team to look like finals & premiership contention again by 2025:

2025 North Melbourne Best 22
B: Lester (2022 trade) / McKay / Corr
HB: McDonald / Payne (2023 trade) / Goater
C: Tstasas (2022 draft) / Davis-Uniacke / Powell
HF: Zurhaar / Larkey / Thomas
F: McStay (2022 trade) / Coleman-Jones / Stephenson
R: Xerri / Simpkin / Horne-Francis
INT: Phillips / Taylor / Forward Pocket / Half-Back

 

[Its a Process]

Hmm I don't think so. They needed some serious trade/free agency wins to get there.

Hewett, Saad, Martin, Lewis Young, Zac Williams, Adam Cerra, Pittonet, Setterfield all traded in. That's more than 1/3 of their 22.

The trades half come though because of the draft picks.

 

[Its a Process]

Did I miss something? When did Carlton become competitive? Unless we define competitive as being somewhere in the middle of the ladder, which is exactly where we were and what everyone was complaining about before we started this rebuild journey.

I probably didn't make it clear enough, i don't think they've built a list that will win a flag it but they are competitive at the moment and have a good midfield group and decent defense.

My point was Carlton delisted 42 senior players in 3 years and their progress was far from linear. We have undergone a similar renovation and it probably helps explain why we are stuttering this when compared with pundits and fans expectations. The reality is if Atley, Dumont, Garner, Tarrant and Tyson were on our list at the moment they'd probably command a game if we were picking best 22.

Hopefully the benefit of this pain is realised in near future when the games we have poured into these kids start to reap benefits.

 

[Dan]

Sorry... institutionalised racism. (or sexism or other institutionalised bigotry.)

I should have been clearer.

No I knew the sorta type you were referring to just perplexed as to why you'd use that analogy and then go for a 2nd serving comparing our club's situation to dire global issues in the world.

You had some valid points but you lost me with that other s**t.

 

[ferball]

No I knew the sorta type you were referring to just perplexed as to why you'd use that analogy and then go for a 2nd serving comparing our club's situation to dire global issues in the world.

You had some valid points but you lost me with that other s**t.

Its not the same thing.

Its the same pattern or process. But whatever.

At least you focused on the important parts.

 

[rooboy335]

In regards to your squad then (with the additions of those 3 Lions players + Tstasas in this year's draft), the team already looks more improved by a mile and given there's 16 other clubs that you could still get players from, it doesn't take look from that team to look like finals & premiership contention again by 2025:

Thanks for the effort and insight of your post C2L! And the quote above from your post is exactly what I'm referring to when saying that this could be a quick 2-3 season turnaround. There are 17 other AFL sides that should provide us with the opportunity to bolster our list. I'm sure the List Management team are doing their due diligence in finding out where those opportunities lie - they bloody well better be anyway.

Just a quick refresh as to where the Lions were before they shot up to now becoming consistent contenders:

End of H&A seasons

2015 (finished 17th) Notable players drafted - Eric Hipwood pick 14
2016 (finished 17th) Notable players drafted - Hugh McCluggage pick 3, Jarrod Berry pick 17, Oscar McInerney pick 37 Rookie Draft
2017 (finished 18th) / Significant players traded in - Charlie Cameron for pick 12, Luke Hodge for picks 43 & 75,
Notable players drafted - Cam Rayner pick 1, Zac Bailey pick 15, Brandon Starcevich pick 18
2018 (finished 15th) / Significant players traded in - Marcus Adams for picks 32 & 2019 R3, Lincoln McCarthy for picks 42 & 60, Lachie Neale for picks 6, 19 & 55, Jarryd Lyons as a DFA

I believe the majority of these players got Brisbane the results below and most form part of the best 22 today. All over the course of 4 years of and believe me, not all of their draft picks/trades were "hits".

2019 (finished 2nd)
2020 (finished 2nd)
2021 (finished 4th)

I think since the Simpkin draft we have started to build our own young talented core who will take us forward, so by no means are we starting from the beginning. If we can nail a few more like the lions did above, I can see a similar sort of trajectory.