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Pick 25 wasted ??
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Scodog10
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Dermie has summed it up perfectly. The only reason he was pre-listed by GWS was because we asked them too. They don't just pick 10 players at random that fit the criteria and offer them up to clubs. They go to each existing club and ask them who they'd like pre-listed. The fact that the player has to nominate for the draft to be eligible under this scheme (if they haven't already been on a list) obviously backs up that he was able to be drafted!
We could have run the risk of leaving him in the draft pool, but obviously we chose not to. It was a good way of exploiting the rule in order to guarantee he got to us and also to get equal value with Clarke.
The reasoning behind pick 47 was the club probably thought 25 would be a stretch to take him, but if we didn't he'd definitely be gone by 47. IMO it would have been in that range because its harder to move up the order at that end than when you get to the 60's and 70's, but I could obviously be way off with that sort of guess.
Dermie has summed it up perfectly. The only reason he was pre-listed by GWS was because we asked them too. They don't just pick 10 players at random that fit the criteria and offer them up to clubs. They go to each existing club and ask them who they'd like pre-listed. The fact that the player has to nominate for the draft to be eligible under this scheme (if they haven't already been on a list) obviously backs up that he was able to be drafted!
We could have run the risk of leaving him in the draft pool, but obviously we chose not to. It was a good way of exploiting the rule in order to guarantee he got to us and also to get equal value with Clarke.
The reasoning behind pick 47 was the club probably thought 25 would be a stretch to take him, but if we didn't he'd definitely be gone by 47. IMO it would have been in that range because its harder to move up the order at that end than when you get to the 60's and 70's, but I could obviously be way off with that sort of guess.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
I'm quite amazed how much criticism I've got from this and i just want to raise the following points:
1) People who have mentioned that macintosh is cooked (hes 27
confused, many said the same with gardiner until he produced at the saints.
2)jamie elliot would have slipped through to 44, (hes draft range was 50 to undraftable)
3)how is the draft shallow???? people say it. the media say it. and thats it. Llyod and kevin sheehan both said that the draft was good and that "there would be stars to come out of this draft". I am surprized how many bozos out there that have no idea and are just wildly claiming that the draft is shallow. Like i said, they've said this about every draft since the hodge-ball-judd draft.
4) marty clarke ... have you seen his highlights, you can see the guy thinking about how he is going to kick the football before he kicks it. He's not a natural.
5) Hine has also made many mistakes may i say, even though collingwood probably have more talent scouts than any other team in the afl. Wood, cook, stanely, morrison and egan were all high draft picks or cost high draft picks and turned out to be duds who hine picked.
however i do trust the club and will do so in this case as well.
I'm quite amazed how much criticism I've got from this and i just want to raise the following points:
1) People who have mentioned that macintosh is cooked (hes 27
confused, many said the same with gardiner until he produced at the saints.2)jamie elliot would have slipped through to 44, (hes draft range was 50 to undraftable)
3)how is the draft shallow???? people say it. the media say it. and thats it. Llyod and kevin sheehan both said that the draft was good and that "there would be stars to come out of this draft". I am surprized how many bozos out there that have no idea and are just wildly claiming that the draft is shallow. Like i said, they've said this about every draft since the hodge-ball-judd draft.
4) marty clarke ... have you seen his highlights, you can see the guy thinking about how he is going to kick the football before he kicks it. He's not a natural.
5) Hine has also made many mistakes may i say, even though collingwood probably have more talent scouts than any other team in the afl. Wood, cook, stanely, morrison and egan were all high draft picks or cost high draft picks and turned out to be duds who hine picked.
however i do trust the club and will do so in this case as well.
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Scodog10
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Are you sure you have the correct Hamish Mcintosh? Because the one currently listed by North is 27 turning 28 during next season. Also Gardiner was a bloody AA with West Coast by the age of 24 and played clearly the best football of his career while with them circa 2000-2005 before Cox became the player he is today.
Of course there'll be stars to come out of it there are stars in every draft. This years top 5 looks to be even stronger than 2010's! However after the first 15 or so the talent levels drop away and you can pretty much throw a blanket over the rest of the field. Which is just like the weaker drafts of 2002, 2003 and 2004!
Are you sure you have the correct Hamish Mcintosh? Because the one currently listed by North is 27 turning 28 during next season. Also Gardiner was a bloody AA with West Coast by the age of 24 and played clearly the best football of his career while with them circa 2000-2005 before Cox became the player he is today.
Of course there'll be stars to come out of it there are stars in every draft. This years top 5 looks to be even stronger than 2010's! However after the first 15 or so the talent levels drop away and you can pretty much throw a blanket over the rest of the field. Which is just like the weaker drafts of 2002, 2003 and 2004!
Re: Pick 25 wasted
2) Who knows?
3) I've heard both sides of the story from people within the football industry. Some say it falls away after around the top 15, some say there are plenty of talented youngsters. One thing with Sheehan is that he'll never say it's a weak draft when he's employed by the AFL.
4) He had no problems averaging over 20 disposals a game when he was playing for us. He's might not look 100% smooth but he's not a clanger king.
5) Wood was traded by Brisbane. Hine wasn't our recruiter when we got Morrison, he became our recruiter in 2005. Cook and Stanley were OK, Egan had no desire to play footy but was talented. In saying that Hine picks a lot more players who have ability to play than not.
1) McIntosh was born in 1984.I'm quite amazed how much criticism I've got from this and i just want to raise the following points:
1) People who have mentioned that macintosh is cooked (hes 24), many said the same with gardiner until he produced at the saints.
2)jamie elliot would have slipped through to 44, (hes draft range was 50 to undraftable)
3)how is the draft shallow???? people say it. the media say it. and thats it. Llyod and kevin sheehan both said that the draft was good and that "there would be stars to come out of this draft". I am surprized how many bozos out there that have no idea and are just wildly claiming that the draft is shallow. Like i said, they've said this about every draft since the hodge-ball-judd draft.
4) marty clarke ... have you seen his highlights, you can see the guy thinking about how he is going to kick the football before he kicks it. He's not a natural.
5) Hine has also made many mistakes may i say, even though collingwood probably have more talent scouts than any other team in the afl. Wood, cook, stanely, morrison and egan were all high draft picks or cost high draft picks and turned out to be duds who hine picked.
however i do trust the club and will do so in this case as well.
2) Who knows?
3) I've heard both sides of the story from people within the football industry. Some say it falls away after around the top 15, some say there are plenty of talented youngsters. One thing with Sheehan is that he'll never say it's a weak draft when he's employed by the AFL.
4) He had no problems averaging over 20 disposals a game when he was playing for us. He's might not look 100% smooth but he's not a clanger king.
5) Wood was traded by Brisbane. Hine wasn't our recruiter when we got Morrison, he became our recruiter in 2005. Cook and Stanley were OK, Egan had no desire to play footy but was talented. In saying that Hine picks a lot more players who have ability to play than not.
Re: Pick 25 wasted
Not the way to win friends & influence people.
I am happy with the deal, was disappointed when Marty departed & welcome him back as a great depth player. Elliot, will see how he go's.
No recruiter can get every draft choice right, however Hines record speaks for itself.....more hits than misses.
I'm quite amazed how much criticism I've got from this and i just want to raise the following points:
1) People who have mentioned that macintosh is cooked (hes 27
2)jamie elliot would have slipped through to 44, (hes draft range was 50 to undraftable)
3)how is the draft shallow???? people say it. the media say it. and thats it. Llyod and kevin sheehan both said that the draft was good and that "there would be stars to come out of this draft". I am surprized how many bozos out there that have no idea and are just wildly claiming that the draft is shallow. Like i said, they've said this about every draft since the hodge-ball-judd draft.
Not the way to win friends & influence people.
I am happy with the deal, was disappointed when Marty departed & welcome him back as a great depth player. Elliot, will see how he go's.
No recruiter can get every draft choice right, however Hines record speaks for itself.....more hits than misses.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
I think what many have said is that the draft is very evenafter the top 15-20 picks. That is different than saying it is shallow. What it is saying is that a late first rounder like we had at 25 may be seen to be of similar value to a pick in the 40's by our recruiting dept. Especially if we feel the player we are interested in will slip that far. We have backed players to slip in the past in comparison to where we rate them (Beams/J Thomas/Pendlebury).
I think what many have said is that the draft is very evenafter the top 15-20 picks. That is different than saying it is shallow. What it is saying is that a late first rounder like we had at 25 may be seen to be of similar value to a pick in the 40's by our recruiting dept. Especially if we feel the player we are interested in will slip that far. We have backed players to slip in the past in comparison to where we rate them (Beams/J Thomas/Pendlebury).
Hotpiescoldbeers
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
We paid too much? What would Elliot be worth In the draft? 3-4th round if lucky! More likely a rookie selection, we should of been compensated a 2nd rounder not a 67.
We paid too much? What would Elliot be worth In the draft? 3-4th round if lucky! More likely a rookie selection, we should of been compensated a 2nd rounder not a 67.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Word.
Super fit, some skill issues, known quantity, basically a "here and now" addition and as many have mentioned comparable to the Krak/Ceglar trade with a present and possible future player for one hit.
We need soldiers for a war, not one star to make up for one incident. Clarke is a very fit boy with flashes of brilliance but also areas he can improve.
If things don't quite work out he plays 6 games bolstering the midfield/halfback so we don't shred Davis, Swan, Wellingham etc uneccesarily. Best case is he learns more footy skills and becomes a regular: its a decent bet with little downside.
The draft is shallow because of pick inflation: we come in at 25 ffs thats a devalued pick. Remember 10 gun 17-yr-olds that should've been in have been harvested already. So 25 is more like 35, but we're getting a kid rated top 25.
Word.
Super fit, some skill issues, known quantity, basically a "here and now" addition and as many have mentioned comparable to the Krak/Ceglar trade with a present and possible future player for one hit.
We need soldiers for a war, not one star to make up for one incident. Clarke is a very fit boy with flashes of brilliance but also areas he can improve.
If things don't quite work out he plays 6 games bolstering the midfield/halfback so we don't shred Davis, Swan, Wellingham etc uneccesarily. Best case is he learns more footy skills and becomes a regular: its a decent bet with little downside.
The draft is shallow because of pick inflation: we come in at 25 ffs thats a devalued pick. Remember 10 gun 17-yr-olds that should've been in have been harvested already. So 25 is more like 35, but we're getting a kid rated top 25.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Marty Clarke, on track to becoming one of the best irish recruits ever before Malthouse makes a pariah out of him because the kid wanted to play mid/forward?
Yeah, wasted pick. Until Mick ruined him, he was gunning it, and now actively wants a second chance.
If we can give an unknown in Krakouer a second chance at 28, I think we can manage a KNOWN quantity in Marty at 23.
Call me crazy.
Marty Clarke, on track to becoming one of the best irish recruits ever before Malthouse makes a pariah out of him because the kid wanted to play mid/forward?
Yeah, wasted pick. Until Mick ruined him, he was gunning it, and now actively wants a second chance.
If we can give an unknown in Krakouer a second chance at 28, I think we can manage a KNOWN quantity in Marty at 23.
Call me crazy.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Hamish Mcintosh? Come on, like we need another injury prone ruckman.
Hamish Mcintosh? Come on, like we need another injury prone ruckman.
Re: Pick 25 wasted
I'd rather Mark Blake then Hamish Macintosh
I'd rather Mark Blake then Hamish Macintosh
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Having said that, he does have a good track record, and you have to be creative in these times of compromised drafts.
If I'd been recruiting manager at the time, we'd have taken Hannebery at #30... I don't think that makes him infallible.Do we really want to question a guy that found Beams at 30 and Fasolo in the mid 40's
Having said that, he does have a good track record, and you have to be creative in these times of compromised drafts.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Granted his form in his first season was pretty good and he has a good kick. It's just he is not required. We'd be better off trying to develop a young half back flanker for the future.
The trade is for Clarke, Elliot and pick 67. If we actually use 67 on Witts then as far as I'm concerned that's a wasted pick as regards to the trade and we've basically traded for Clarke and Elliot only. Clarke is basically some insurance for one of our half backs going down, and cannot really be classified as anything more than a minor upgrade on Buckley.
How Elliot turns out will decide the success of the trade most likely, Witts who is our player already (picking him in the draft is a formality), has naught to do with it.
What the hell were you watching when Clarke played with us? He's not quick, he's slow as bat shit. Don't mistake endurance with speed. He's also poor overhead. These aren't qualities that tend to make for a very good small forward.
Granted his form in his first season was pretty good and he has a good kick. It's just he is not required. We'd be better off trying to develop a young half back flanker for the future.
What is with people pulling this bs trying to make trades look better than they are? Putting Witts in as though we traded for him? Ridiculous.DING! DING ! DING! We have a winner!
Sorry Taz had to use ur gif, it seemed appropriate
So essentially we have gotten 3 players for 1 pick. 1 player (Clarke) can make an immediate impact during our premiership window, 1 player (Elliot) seems talented and could break into the side over the next few years. 1 kid (Witts) looks a very promising young ruckman. I'm happy with the trade.
The trade is for Clarke, Elliot and pick 67. If we actually use 67 on Witts then as far as I'm concerned that's a wasted pick as regards to the trade and we've basically traded for Clarke and Elliot only. Clarke is basically some insurance for one of our half backs going down, and cannot really be classified as anything more than a minor upgrade on Buckley.
How Elliot turns out will decide the success of the trade most likely, Witts who is our player already (picking him in the draft is a formality), has naught to do with it.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Should Bucks have contacted you before making the trade? lol, a bigfooty poster knows more than our recruiters, give it a rest FFS.
Should Bucks have contacted you before making the trade? lol, a bigfooty poster knows more than our recruiters, give it a rest FFS.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Clarke isn't required in Dundalis' opinion and thats a good thing in my book.
Clarke isn't required in Dundalis' opinion and thats a good thing in my book.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
Always love it when you reply to one of my posts mate. Humourous character you are, even if a bit odd.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
However, the only opinion that really matters is Hine's, our opinions are just guess work and speculation
You have an opinion, the distributer has an opinion, I have an opinion.
However, the only opinion that really matters is Hine's, our opinions are just guess work and speculation
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
macintosh isnt going to come to play for Collingwood for a sniff off an oily rag....we have reached our salary cap.
macintosh isnt going to come to play for Collingwood for a sniff off an oily rag....we have reached our salary cap.
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
So we wasted pick 25 on a proven AFL standard player (who mind you can become anything), a kid who is rated by Hine as a potential 35-45 pick and pick 67? What a waste we could have picked up Setanta with that pick
So we wasted pick 25 on a proven AFL standard player (who mind you can become anything), a kid who is rated by Hine as a potential 35-45 pick and pick 67? What a waste we could have picked up Setanta with that pick
Re: Pick 25 wasted
Yep, I'm sure Hine thought Elliott was rookie material at best. Why did he request him as part of the deal?
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Re: Pick 25 wasted
I reckon they are looking for a replacement for Ben Johnson.
I reckon they are looking for a replacement for Ben Johnson.
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