Vic Predict the outcome of the 2018 Victorian State Election

[Nuggs Bunny]

Whats the deal with the Herald Sun saying he's giving 150k to hi-vis plodders? As some of you might be aware of my love for Daniel Andrews and my sheer hatred for tradies earning more than 65k. You can imagine I'm torn.

Is it bullshit? Why is he giving them 150k? Are they mostly plumbers and not migrant labourers? I honestly don't think their rates are anything new but the fact it's Daniel Andrews caving into their financial expectations has me unhappy with him for the first time ever.

Is it bullshit? No dog, it's for real.
Why is he giving them 150k? He isn't. $150k is the estimated annual earnings of a senior labourer or leading hand working a 50 hour working week, inclusive of their site allowance. This is roughly $60 per hour for normal time, $90 per hour for over time inclusive of site allowance. These rates are nothing new.
Are they mostly plumbers and not migrant labourers? Labourers who earn these figures have a skill, like formworking or reinforcement tying or being able to use earthmoving equipment. It's a common misconception that labouring is a lazy, unskilled job for useless people however for a labourer to get work on a major project paying this sort of wage, they actually do need to be good at what they do. It's also extremely physically intensive work.
I honestly don't think their rates are anything new but the fact it's Daniel Andrews caving into their financial expectations has me unhappy with him for the first time ever. Well brother, if more people like you wanted to get off their ass and pick up a shovel, we wouldn't need to pay people ridiculous amounts to consider working a trade. If you want nice roads, some poor campaigner has to build them.

 

[Pessimistic]

Is it bullshit? No dog, it's for real.
Why is he giving them 150k? He isn't. $150k is the estimated annual earnings of a senior labourer or leading hand working a 50 hour working week, inclusive of their site allowance. This is roughly $60 per hour for normal time, $90 per hour for over time inclusive of site allowance. These rates are nothing new.
Are they mostly plumbers and not migrant labourers? Labourers who earn these figures have a skill, like formworking or reinforcement tying or being able to use earthmoving equipment. It's a common misconception that labouring is a lazy, unskilled job for useless people however for a labourer to get work on a major project paying this sort of wage, they actually do need to be good at what they do. It's also extremely physically intensive work.
I honestly don't think their rates are anything new but the fact it's Daniel Andrews caving into their financial expectations has me unhappy with him for the first time ever. Well brother, if more people like you wanted to get off their ass and pick up a shovel, we wouldn't need to pay people ridiculous amounts to consider working a trade. If you want nice roads, some poor campaigner has to build them.

Yep, in the week a poor guy got killed under a shitload of wet cement. Maybe thats Andrews fault too?

 

[FireKrakouer]

Whats the deal with the Herald Sun saying he's giving 150k to hi-vis plodders? As some of you might be aware of my love for Daniel Andrews and my sheer hatred for tradies earning more than 65k. You can imagine I'm torn.

Is it bullshit? Why is he giving them 150k? Are they mostly plumbers and not migrant labourers? I honestly don't think their rates are anything new but the fact it's Daniel Andrews caving into their financial expectations has me unhappy with him for the first time ever.

You love Dan, but don't want to see tradies being overpaid?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[Badesumofu]

Why would someone object to hard-working tradies making good money? They work bloody hard, long hours, and it's actually very skilled labour in a lot of cases. It's the fukwits in banks who brought on the GFC and are paid more than 10x what tradies get who we should be concerned about.

Note: that I'm not talking about all bankers.

 

[Pessimistic]

On one hand the Libs are saying they are producing more well paid jobs, and that to get a decent house car and kids education you need to work harder take opportunities
On the other they want to play the jealousy card against anyone who’s ever had anything to do with a union

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

On one hand the Libs are saying they are producing more well paid jobs, and that to get a decent house car and kids education you need to work harder take opportunities
On the other they want to play the jealousy card against anyone who’s ever had anything to do with a union

I don't think it's so much the union aspect as it is that being a labourer is seen as being a lesser job because it doesn't involve sitting at a desk. Australians have this most ridiculous sense of job snobbery and are clearly biased towards office work without any direct liaison with the public, like real estate for example. Somewhere along the line, we got the impression that the people who negotiate the sale of a house from one party to another are worth more to the economy than the people who built the house in the first place.

It's funny how many people go to university just so they won't have to be one of those people who works a trade, as if for some reason that if you don't go to university then you're doomed to become a screed or something. People look down on trades that much that they give away four years of their life and tens of thousands of dollars to avoid it. Truly incredible.

 

[Pessimistic]

I don't think it's so much the union aspect as it is that being a labourer is seen as being a lesser job because it doesn't involve sitting at a desk. Australians have this most ridiculous sense of job snobbery and are clearly biased towards office work without any direct liaison with the public, like real estate for example. Somewhere along the line, we got the impression that the people who negotiate the sale of a house from one party to another are worth more to the economy than the people who built the house in the first place.

It's funny how many people go to university just so they won't have to be one of those people who works a trade, as if for some reason that if you don't go to university then you're doomed to become a screed or something. People look down on trades that much that they give away four years of their life and tens of thousands of dollars to avoid it. Truly incredible.

Trade is good for males. The traditional female trades have shockingly low pay. This is where the statistical average pay difference is probably rooted

 

[Bombermania]

If infrastructure cost less to build you could pay nurses and teachers more.

But debts must be paid. And with such an infrastructure build, the economics of supply and demand work in the CFMMEU's favour.

As does the closed shop.

Most infrastructure spending comes via borrowings from wholesale capital markets so has little impact on nurses and teachers pay.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Why would someone object to hard-working tradies making good money?

Politics of downward envy.

 

[The Punter]

Most infrastructure spending comes via borrowings from wholesale capital markets so has little impact on nurses and teachers pay.

And the interest payments?

 

[Gough]

And the interest payments?

Why is Labor debt only of concern to you rusted on types?

 

[The Punter]

If the govt is borrowing extra money to pay exorbitant wages to construction workers and have to pay interest on that money, isn't that interest better utilised somewhere else? Address the policy concern rather than who is raising them.

 

[Gough]

The federal government have borrowed and spent like drunken sailors despite declaring a budget emergency in opposition and not a sound from you about it. Forgive me if I don’t take your concern very seriously, you don't give a f*** about borrowed money, just on what Labor spend it on.

 

[The Punter]

The federal government have borrowed and spent like drunken sailors despite declaring a budget emergency in opposition and not a sound from you about it. Forgive me if I don’t take your concern very seriously, you don't give a f*** about borrowed money, just on what Labor spend it on.

I've been on the record in various forums saying that the Australian Government has a spending problem for some time.

And no, I'm not going to do your research for you.

 

[Gough]

Of course you have. I'm looking forward to seeing you in threads other than this one casting your learned eye over a Shorten government when it's sworn in. Opposition seems to be a happy place for you.

 

[Pessimistic]

So hows the victorian govt budget going? last I heard pretty much OK

 

[Bombermania]

And the interest payments?

Very much depends on how the government has structured the project, one of the reasons why government likes PPR is that it reduces the cost to government or shifts the need to raise capital to the private partner. Nurses and teachers pay rates form part of the government's overall private sector pay strategy, and when it comes to interest payments, the nurse or teacher's super fund can buy government bonds so ineffect those interest payments are being made to the nurse or teacher.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Just got cold called by someone claiming to represent the liberal candidate. I asked what her personal position was on the liberals plan to separate Sunbury from the rest of hume council. He was unable to answer. Even after I prompted him with being aware that liberal leader is pro split I wanted to know local candidate positions (because we have seen that liberals don’t play follow the leader well). He still couldn’t answer so I told him he clearly is failing at his job then hung up.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Just got cold called by someone claiming to represent the liberal candidate. I asked what her personal position was on the liberals plan to separate Sunbury from the rest of hume council. He was unable to answer. Even after I prompted him with being aware that liberal leader is pro split I wanted to know local candidate positions (because we have seen that liberals don’t play follow the leader well). He still couldn’t answer so I told him he clearly is failing at his job then hung up.

M8, I don't think it's the upper echelon who do the cold calls. It's someone on minimum wage, reading off a script.

 

[Crankyhawk]

M8, I don't think it's the upper echelon who do the cold calls. It's someone on minimum wage, reading off a script.

Still should do the background work. Poor work ethic.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Just got cold called by someone claiming to represent the liberal candidate. I asked what her personal position was on the liberals plan to separate Sunbury from the rest of hume council. He was unable to answer. Even after I prompted him with being aware that liberal leader is pro split I wanted to know local candidate positions (because we have seen that liberals don’t play follow the leader well). He still couldn’t answer so I told him he clearly is failing at his job then hung up.

Is the split a good thing or a bad thing though? Sunbury would probably be better off, the rest of the area would be worse off.

 

[pazza]

If the govt is borrowing extra money to pay exorbitant wages to construction workers and have to pay interest on that money, isn't that interest better utilised somewhere else? Address the policy concern rather than who is raising them.

Money well spent if that is the case.

These things don't build themselves!

 

[Crankyhawk]

Is the split a good thing or a bad thing though? Sunbury would probably be better off, the rest of the area would be worse off.

Sunbury rates would increase by 15 to 20% on the numbers that were sent out. I live closer to Craigieburn than Sunbury but would be on the Sunbury side of the division, so it doesn’t make sense for me. I know the Sunbury locals feel differently and feel neglected by hume. The big sticking point is which side would get the airport and the $

 

[TimmeT]

Money well spent if that is the case.

These things don't build themselves!

Either you're just playing the partisan game or you're dumb but either way how is it money well spent if there are options available to pay reasonable wages like what was going to happen on EW Link?

 

[pazza]

Either you're just playing the partisan game or you're dumb but either way how is it money well spent if there are options available to pay reasonable wages like what was going to happen on EW Link?

It's not just reasonable wages but reasonable conditions. This work needs to be done professionally and safely. Let it be the case.

As for Victoria's financial position, with a surplus budget, I can't see too many loans being taken out..or are you just reading that from the Liberal Daily from Southbank?