PS thinks Lloyd should go

[Phat Toni]

Time for Lloyd to join changing of the guard and retire gracefully
The Australian 19/08/2009
Patrick Smith


"With Lucas gone, it concentrates eyes on Matthew Lloyd, one of the greatest full-forwards in the game's history."

More Patrick Smith dribble

Question for the Dons supporters, who do you despise more Patrick Smith or Robert Walls?

And, in relation to the article should Lloyd go? IMO stepping aside as Captain but playing on in 2010 would be a nice fit.

 

[Jesse Custer]

It seems now anything Essendon related that comes out of fatprick's mouth, isn't worth talking about.

 

[daffo]

Lloyd has at least one more year left in him.

 

[Sealz]

Walls… major tosser… and at times I am forced to listen to his dribble… Smith can be avoided…

I Think Lloyd should definitely play on in 2010 and POSSIBLY the year after depending on his form/fitness and desire to continue… plus the development of the younger guys around him…

I would love to see him reach 1000 goals… but it now seems unlikely.

With the captaincy issue I think the calls for him to pass on the baton like Hirdy and GOD did before him have merit… But from Lloyds perspective he probably feels as though he would have guided the Bombers through some lean times only to hand over the leadership when the group is on the up…

 

[Macca18]

To be honest I thought it was a perfectly reasonable argument he put up in his article.

Lloyd has been a modern day great but there is little disputing his form has seriously tapered off in the last two seasons.

It will be a win/win for the club whatever way Lloyd and the club decide to go - if he stays on for one more year next year, I've got little doubt he will want to go out on the best possible note and will be that wise head in the forward line that some of our young guys are needing. If he pulls the pin, it pushes us further ahead in the rebuilding process and seriously opens a massive door for Gumbleton and Neagle, to a lesser extent.

 

[BrunoV]

I used to love Smith. About 18 months ago he was great at supporting unpopulr views and taking sensible devils advocate positions. I loved listening to him on SEN.

This year he has thrown the consideration out the window and just sensationalises. He may have always been doing this but it only started annoying me now.

In, what has become typical PS style, he then raised questions over Lloyd's captaincy.

On repeat: Lloyd has been asked to be our # 1 when he is not up the ground. Lloyd was supposed to be a flanker this year an he has not been given the freedom. Knights said as much when he was talking about playing Lloyd, Lucas, Neagle and Gumbleton in the same side as he wanted the older heads teaching the younger ones.

He will finish with about 40 goals which would be an excellent return for key forward # 3. It is no where near enough when considering that Lucas has been retired (a reflection on his form), Neagle was dropped due to poor form and Gumbleton got injured. Lloyd's defensive work, while not the best, is underrated because Lloyd is no longer a fashionable player.

Perhaps the most important part of Lloyd's game has been his captaincy. He has been instrumental in changing the culture at the club which, by his own admission, had dropped well below what was acceptable.

All of this media pressure to retire creates self-fulfilling prophecies. It highlights all of the failings of a player and none of the positives. The same people who call for his retirement never address any of the positive aspects of Lloyd's game and the role that he has next year (mainly as a foil and player up the round).

The common phrase is that he is playing in a position that is not his best. The reality is that the 5 - 6 goal games up at around CHF have always been Lloyds best. He did it a few times earlier this year and did it a few times last year. The best game I ever saw Lloyd play was a match where he kicked 8 (I think, it may have been 7) against Port and took out Chad Cornes with a huge tackle. He was not playing full forward that day.

 

[Super Gusto]

The guy is a massive knob.

Essendons forward line has been arguably our biggest weakness this year.

Why would you get rid of Lloyd (one of the best forwards of the modern era) when Neagle is still developing and Gumbelton has yet to play a full season? Total Nonsense.

It's likely that Llolyd will still get alot of time playing as the number 1 forward if we run into injuries or other players loose form as has been the case a number of times this year.

Even if Llyod does play up the ground when (and if) both Gumbelton and Neagle are firing, he still adds a huge amount of value. His game against Carlton earlier in the year is a prime example.

 

[WCW9999]

What people need to realize is that at the very least Lloyd staying on and playing for another year or two gives us insurance against injury to our younger Kp forwards (who are injury prone). It also gives them guidance from one of the best full forwards of the current era.

Also he is on our vetrans list so by him retiring we will only gain an extra pick in the rookie draft. I am pretty certain that Lloyd will give us more than any 3rd or fourth round rookie pick draft pick ever will

 

[Boucks09]

Perhaps the most important part of Lloyd's game has been his captaincy. He has been instrumental in changing the culture at the club which, by his own admission, had dropped well below what was acceptable.


The common phrase is that he is playing in a position that is not his best. The reality is that the 5 - 6 goal games up at around CHF have always been Lloyds best. He did it a few times earlier this year and did it a few times last year. The best game I ever saw Lloyd play was a match where he kicked 8 (I think, it may have been 7) against Port and took out Chad Cornes with a huge tackle. He was not playing full forward that day.

Fantastic points.

He has been a better captain than Hird was towards the end of his reign especially off the field.

That game against Port was immense. That confirmed that he was the next captain of our club. I think Jobe did something similar last week in putting his hand up.

 

[Smokin]

Putting aside the fact he is a champion of the club and game, from a purely on-field and development POV, yes the club is better off with him retiring, frankly.

I have been to a few VFL games of late, and definitely liking the development of Daniher. Gumbleton has had the op now, and hopefully will be available. Add in Hille who realeases either as another forward option, plus Laycock, plus Hurley as another option with Hooker back to the backline and not being forced to play ruck - we really do have a plethora of options for the forwardline (plus Neagle of course) - it is that group which we must acertain provides the best forwardline options - and playing Lloyd simply hampers that development. The ingredients are there, we have to let that cake bake for a season or 2 now. It may just be the last frontier for us.

But the club wont do that to him, it will be up to him. I am not fussed either way, but I feel he will go on.

 

[Kong]

I didn't read the article, as it was written by Patrick Smith.

However regarding Lloyd, I'm of the opinion that he should play on next year without the captaincy. Odds are he's likely to be pushed out of the forward line next year, assuming that Neagle, Gumbleton, Hurley and Daniher can stay fit. It would be an unpleasant situation for the club to find itself in with the captain deserving to be dropped; the best situation would be for Watson (who, barring injury will be our best player and one of our best leaders) to assume the reigns, allowing Lloyd to concentrate on dominating games again.

It may even prolong his career for another year.

Having said that, I'm very happy with the job Lloyd's done as captain; maybe it's time for the Essendon Football Club to re-introduce the old Co-Captains policy.

 

[bacon buster]

Putting aside the fact he is a champion of the club and game, from a purely on-field and development POV, yes the club is better off with him retiring, frankly.

I have been to a few VFL games of late, and definitely liking the development of Daniher. Gumbleton has had the op now, and hopefully will be available. Add in Hille who realeases either as another forward option, plus Laycock, plus Hurley as another option with Hooker back to the backline and not being forced to play ruck - we really do have a plethora of options for the forwardline (plus Neagle of course) - it is that group which we must acertain provides the best forwardline options - and playing Lloyd simply hampers that development. The ingredients are there, we have to let that cake bake for a season or 2 now. It may just be the last frontier for us.

But the club wont do that to him, it will be up to him. I am not fussed either way, but I feel he will go on.

i agree with everything you've said here.

i don't think lloyd is mobile enough to offer us a CHF option next year, and i would prefer to see neagle played at full forward.

lloydy is not going to feauture in our next premiership team, whereas i think fletch could play another 3-4 years and definitely be a part of our next flag.

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

He's got another year at least in him IMO. Played well throughout the year, stood up in big games, can still take a strong contested grab. No need to throw our young key forwards all into the deep end at once. I think He'll captain for one more year as well, although Spike's efforts of late may indicate Lloyd will be stepping aside from captaincy.

 

[ant555]

Just as well you did not post the whole article. There will be severe penalties for making me read anything written by Patrick Smith!

As for Lloyd now that he does not have to fill the spot for Lucas and he can get back to playing the position he used to fill i think he can still be a 50 goals forward over the next couple of years.
He has suffered badly being the number one forward along side Lucas who has been ordinary. It has ment Lloyd has been double teamed or had to play out of position.
He is not the player he was but IMO he does have a couple of years left in him if he can get back to playing in the forward line more and not playing the half forward role of having to run far and wide.

 

[Godzke]

If anything, Lucas's retirement eases the pressure on Lloyd, as there was limited space for both of em in the team. We can afford to have one older, more experienced and slower forward to provide assistance going into the future for Gumby and Neagle.

Prefer him to drop the captaincy and focus on his individual game, but I don't see it happening but maybe he still find his form of old.

 

[Knight Ryders]

I'm really torn on this subject. I have loved the service Lloyd has given the Essendon FC and on that alone, I want him to continue if he feels he has it in him. I also feel that he is still our best player out of the square. If natural progression occurs and the Bombers improve on this year, Lloyd could easily kick 50-75 goals next year.

But, if Neagle and Gumbleton are fit next year, with the possibility of a resting ruckmen in Hille and Ryder up forward, I find it hard to find him a spot in our team if we are aiming for the future. Do we really want Neagle or Gumbleton learning their trade in the reserves?

I hope I am right when I believe that Neagle could play higher up the ground if he was to get "AFL fit". He has a great grab as everyone knows, but he seems to have a bit of Stevie Johnson type magic about him as well. This would give our side the latitude for Lloyd to play on as a pure FF, where he still has great timing with his leads (as proven against the Bulldogs). Playing FF would also be better for Lloyd's aging body.

 

[DingaRoo]

HELL NO, Lloyd should not retire. He should be played back at FF like his meant to be. And he deserves 1000 goals. 2 more years atleast.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

HELL NO, Lloyd should not retire. He should be played back at FF like his meant to be. And he deserves 1000 goals. 2 more years atleast.

^^ this

 

[Spikey]

Matthew Lloyd is finished. The sooner everyone admits this, and then change their mind the next time he kicks 3 goals in a match, the better.

 

[hateitorlovett13]

I tend to lean towards Lloyd retiring as well. I think people are largely blinded by the fact that he has been an out and out champion of not just Essendon but the game as a whole, and one of the greatest Full Forwards the game has seen.

Unfortunately, past greatness does not necessarily guarantee current aptitude. Of course, he still seems to be a very good leader and valued figure to have around the club, however I'm not sure our forward line still functions as well with Lloyd in it.

IMO, the past two games have shown the benefits of having a forward line without the old, tired legs of Lloyd and Lucas in it, and this insight is what ultimately what caused Lucas to retire. With Monfries and one of Hurley/Neagle being lead up targets, that leaves the other key forward to take the forward 50. Our forward line success in the past 2 matches can indeed be linked to the absence of the aged Lloyd and Lucas, and sadly I think we do better without both.

What, if Lloyd doesn't go, does he really add to the team? Playing him as a lead up target outside the forward 50 has done nothing for the team this year- Monfries is perfectly apt in performing that task, if needed. Similarly, a position in the goalsquare gives no greater advantage to the team than having a Hurley, Ryder or Neagle in the same position. All of those 3 have shown ability on the lead, in the air, and in contested situations which currently supersedes the ability of Lloydy at this stage of his career.

Hence, I can't help but agree with PS's general contention. Recognise that I am not taking a shot at Lloyd; I just think it's time for a champion to move on. Neagle has learnt everything he will learn from Lloyd over the past 3 years, and for him it is about getting some serious fitness into his body. Hurley seems to be a natural footballer at either end of the ground, and I can't see what Lloydy will teach him further. There is no point in Lloyd waiting around to teach Gumbleton- if we want him to do that, then he can be employed as a forward coach next year.

Sorry guys, but I think it is the best thing for the club moving forward.

 

[efcboy]

patrick smith is a pathetic, bitter, grumpy old man who spat the dummy at the knights coaching appointment. he is or was actually a supposed essendon supporter who was behind the failed, ludicrous "save essendon" campaign. ever since these events he's the first one to stick the knives into either players or coaches when the chips are down (ie after a loss). it was this tosser that fabricated some story there was unrest between knights and senior players etc. this piece of sh!t is a poor excuse for a human being and the world would be a much better place without him on it.

if anyone should be leaving their post its not lloyd, its patrick smith for repeated lying and falsifying making his journalistic credibility a joke.

patrick smith is a rude, arrogant, w***er who deserves every bit of abuse he cops.

please ban patrick smith articles in future

 

[yaco55]

patrick smith is a pathetic, bitter, grumpy old man who spat the dummy at the knights coaching appointment. he is or was actually a supposed essendon supporter who was behind the failed, ludicrous "save essendon" campaign. ever since these events he's the first one to stick the knives into either players or coaches when the chips are down (ie after a loss). it was this tosser that fabricated some story there was unrest between knights and senior players etc. this piece of sh!t is a poor excuse for a human being and the world would be a much better place without him on it.

if anyone should be leaving their post its not lloyd, its patrick smith for repeated lying and falsifying making his journalistic credibility a joke.

patrick smith is a rude, arrogant, w***er who deserves every bit of abuse he cops.

please ban patrick smith articles in future

Yours is a reactionary post.

Should we ban any Journalist who writes or infers that Lloyd should retire.

And there are few journalists who share this point of view.

 

[yaco55]

I didn't read the article, as it was written by Patrick Smith.

However regarding Lloyd, I'm of the opinion that he should play on next year without the captaincy. Odds are he's likely to be pushed out of the forward line next year, assuming that Neagle, Gumbleton, Hurley and Daniher can stay fit. It would be an unpleasant situation for the club to find itself in with the captain deserving to be dropped; the best situation would be for Watson (who, barring injury will be our best player and one of our best leaders) to assume the reigns, allowing Lloyd to concentrate on dominating games again.

It may even prolong his career for another year.

Having said that, I'm very happy with the job Lloyd's done as captain; maybe it's time for the Essendon Football Club to re-introduce the old Co-Captains policy.

You are contradicting yourself !

Lloyd should only be on the list in 2010,if the coaching staff are sure,that he can maintain his place in the best 22 for the whole year.

 

[Darealrath]

Definately should play on.

Would like to see him playing closer to goal and just worry about leading, marking and kicking straight. With a full season of that I think he could still kick 50+. He seems to have been troubled with a few niggles this season, going into matches not 100%. He's played a few excellent game when up and going so I don't think the game is past him at all, though he's obviously lost a yard or two and some accuracy.

I also think he and Neagle can co exist in the F50.

I think he's been a great captain but think it might be a good idea for him to give it up at the end of this season...just let him focus on himself when on the field, he'll still be a great leader off it.

 

[hugorune]

I agree totally with DingaRoo.

From what I've seen this year Lloyd and Fletcher are both playing well enough to be in our best 22. I've got no reason to believe this will not be the case next year, certainly in the first half. And it's great for the younger boys at the club to be playing alongside and learning from champions like them. Put em on single-year contracts of course and see how they go - if their form goes toward the end of the year, then it may be time for them to exit but until then these guys are invaluable.

I can't repeat on this forum what I was saying this morning about Patrick Smith. Let's just say that I was driving home from a graveyard shift when I heard the boys on SEN talking about this article, and my Tourette's was going off in full swing.