Review R10: The Good, Bad and the Ugly vs. Collingwood

[Bovo]

Doubt they will be worse than playing injured or tired players...

Not suggesting that either. Our forward line is quite capable so resting Walker to see how a fringe player goes is a lower risk don’t you think?

 

[Bovo]

If we aren't confident of beating the bottom side with guys like Draper, Edwards, Dowling and co playing then we have no business being talked about as a finals possibility.

we are not that good. We are low top 8 good at best. We can’t bring in too many in one go is my concern

 

[Bovo]

When would we ever do it then

The key thing was a ton of fringe players. I think we need to commit to Draper and let him make mistakes. I think we need to experiment a forward line without Tex so maybe Dowling? I’m not sure how many is too many though.

 

[Cromulant]

we are not that good. We are low top 8 good at best. We can’t bring in too many in one go is my concern

We know Dowling is capable of playing at a decent AFL level, Draper is clearly a level above SANFL and had a week off this week.

Edwards needs to be picked for either Nank or Milera and wouldn't do worse. Cumming needs to be shifted to half back where he actually plays rather than a wing to accommodate someone else.

That's 3 guys, not half a dozen.

If we aren't good enough to deal with that then we aren't a top 8 side.

 

[CrowBloke]

Rankine really choked big time. Tells me he is not quite ready for the big pressure games yet and has lots to learn.

6th Season, 92 games (plenty under high pressure), is freakishly good on a dry track.
He needs to temper his play to the conditions --- it wasn't a matter of choking, but maybe some cockiness thinking he didn't need to modify his game or kicking preparation for the wet day/ground ...?

Fogarty, Dawson best on ground.

For the Crows, surely?
Coaches' votes'll be interesting. I expect both Howe and J. Daicos to poll better than Fog/Dawson.

Butts and Keays had forgettable games.

Dunno about Butts, but the wet/slippery conditions took away Keays' greatest asset ie his speed and confidence on dry ground.

Next weekend vs West Coast is a good time to give Walker a week off with 3 tough games before the bye ahead.

Yes, and while it's too late now, it was a good chance to rest him yesterday and next week.
Crows need him fresh and firing for the Sydney/Lions/Hawks stretch, then the Bye.

 

[Bovo]

We know Dowling is capable of playing at a decent AFL level, Draper is clearly a level above SANFL and had a week off this week.

Edwards needs to be picked for either Nank or Milera and wouldn't do worse. Cumming needs to be shifted to half back where he actually plays rather than a wing to accommodate someone else.

That's 3 guys, not half a dozen.

If we aren't good enough to deal with that then we aren't a top 8 side.

Honest question since we are talking players and opportunity. What are your thoughts on a player like Burgess? Does he deserve another crack or just SANFL and then delist? I often wonder at what point do we say the game is over for a player. Noting he is second highest goal kicker in SANFL.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Nicks can't be held responsible for how the team he's coached for six years plays

 

[Cromulant]

Honest question since we are talking players and opportunity. What are your thoughts on a player like Burgess? Does he deserve another crack or just SANFL and then delist? I often wonder at what point do we say the game is over for a player. Noting he is second highest goal kicker in SANFL.

He's a very good SANFL level forward who often has a size and strength advantage on his opponents

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Honest question since we are talking players and opportunity. What are your thoughts on a player like Burgess? Does he deserve another crack or just SANFL and then delist? I often wonder at what point do we say the game is over for a player. Noting he is second highest goal kicker in SANFL.

Imo Burgess is not AFL standard & pointless putting any more games into unless we have a huge injury run.

 

[jenny61_99]

In the 'Changes' thread I said to moogerfooger and this falls under the category of
BAD:
Curtin, Rankine (twice, inexplicably) and Rachele all missed very gettable shots for goal . In fact, even the normally deadeye Fogarty missed a very close to goal hooked snap, but I'll bet he'll be practising the hell outta those, this week .
If 3 or more of those out of 5 were converted and nothing else changed, we'd have won . I'd wager if those shots had all been taken by Fogarty, we'd have won well.

It's worth asking/wondering why they missed them all and why Fogarty is such an outstanding and reliable kick for goal.
In Cricket, nobody intends to drop a catch, especially a sitter, well, unless they "know" a Bookie somewhere . Likewise, nobody intends to miss a shot at goal.

For a player like the brilliant Rankine, those 2 misses were especially puzzling; he kicks goals from impossible angles but both of his misses were horrible.
I think it has to do with player mindset/determination/will + the fact that they seemed to forget they were kicking with a wet ball on slippery ground.
The former is on the player, but I reckon the latter is squarely on the Coach.

Not only did Nicks fail to select well for the predicted conditions (he's inflexible and inept at forward-planning), but I'd speculate he forgot to prepare the players for wet-weather footy which, by the way, Collingwood did very well. They tapped and soccered and knocked-on and grubbed the ball forward chaotically all game (**see below).

Maybe Nicks thinks he didn't need to remind the players:
--- to have a small player behind packs to crumb the ball off slippery hands
--- to move the ball forward, forward, forward (**as above) by any means possible, and
--- to NOT bomb the ball in high to our F50,
all of which Collingwood did with professional, well-Coached ruthlessness.

To that end, I'd suggest that at training Nicks could have soaked an area of ground to make it slippery underfoot, then made Rankine, Cummins, Rachele and others take shots at goal from 15 to 40m out, with a heavy, wet ball, while drenching them with hoses to simulate (light, moderate, heavy) rain at the same time:
1) to get them used to a kick-for-goal ritual under wet conditions and
2) to remind them what to do under wet conditions
and not just assume they'd get it right.

It's called Coaching, based on the 5 P's --- "Prior preparation prevents poor performance".
On the basis of preparation alone, disregarding all the other flaws he has, the Club needs to SACK NICKS.

Actually, it’s 6 P’s. Prior preparation prevents piss poor performance.

 

[Cromulant]

Imo Burgess is not AFL standard & pointless putting any more games into unless we have a huge injury run.

Pretty much this

But it's not out of the question with the selection panel we have

 

[CrowBloke]

Having calmed down and reflected on the game. This was won and lost in the coaches box again.

Yes, compounded by the Crows' careless kicking-for-goal.

Nicks just has no answers the second a change of thinking is required.

He never has.
In fact, this game was lost in such a predictable Nicks way that I wondered if Davis was on leave.

We should be doing everything in our power to open up play in every single game we play. That should be our MO

Wet ground, slick ball requires a specific type of game plan at which Richmond under Hardwick excelled and which McRae used with to-the-letter execution by his players:
--- move the ball OUT of a pack and ON via any and all means possible --- tap-ons, knock-ons, soccer kicks and toe-pokes and mongrel chaos-ball kicks at every opportunity.

 

[kirky]

Was at the game and I said to mates that I reckon talentwise we are a better side of 23 players however they have a top 10 or so better players (Daicos bros, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Elliot, Hill) than ours but it does fall away after imo.

Now I reckon some of our more experienced players let us down yesterday and not the younger ones.

Fogarty’s 50 in the 3rd qtr which resulted in a Collingwood goal was just dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Coaches cannot assume that players know what to do just because they play AFL level.
Players need to be focussed on particular aspects/facets of the Opposition, their specific opponent
AND
the conditions!
It depends on whether Nicks made a point of preparing them mentally for wet-weather footy and what goes with it.

If he did, then those misses were on the players.
If he didn't, that's on Nicks.

Given the way they handled the conditions (they didn't) my guess is that Nicks didn't.
He certainly didn't select for a wet day/ground.

Rankine and Curtin knew it was wet. Sure, sack Nicks but the misses were on them.

 

[GreyCrow]

Agree, wherever someone says put draper into the midfield it's a tick for they've never played a sport in their life. A surprisingly high percentage of the board

And here I think the opposite occurs for those who say dont play Draper in the middle

I think maybe you get away with a pocket or flank for a young player depending on the bloke, some are ready earlier than others, but otherwise it's the Keays, Peatling, Shoenberg, Berry, Murphy, Jones, Soligo, Rachele (if he hadn't broken ribs) types who we should be finding about who's up to it in the middle. Pedlar should be brought back in a periphery position to help overcome his injuries.

Thanks Nicksy

 

[Bovo]

Imo Burgess is not AFL standard & pointless putting any more games into unless we have a huge injury run.

Yeah I feel that seems correct and at 29 it’s hard to make a case to put him in front of other forwards. I guess his ruck experience is a bonus though.

 

[Huang LoWel]

If the Redbacks can win a title, anything is possible

But the Redbacks enlisted a good coach, employee at work inside the SACA (no longer redbacks) confirmed so. The Crows haven't.

 

[cleanhands]

Nicks can't be held responsible for how the team he's coached for six years plays

Loose interpretation of coached

 

[DJ75]

If we can't debut the likes of Edwards next week, when is a good time?

According to Nicks it is when you are absolutely forced to through a series of unfortunate incidents and not a moment before.

 

[Cromulant]

According to Nicks it is when you are absolutely forced to through a series of unfortunate incidents and not a moment before.

And even then we'd probably go a couple short.

 

[GreyCrow]

If we can't debut the likes of Edwards next week, when is a good time?

When they have eliminated the mistakes from their game and run the lines better

No need for natural talent or flair - just train it out of them

I hate Nicks

 

[Crow_Magnon]

Having calmed down and reflected on the game. This was won and lost in the coaches box again.

McRae forced a long slow game down the line and we took the bait hook line and sinker. Apart from the last 10 minutes, we did nothing to change the game up.

McRae knew we had a forward line that would kick a big score if we moved the ball quickly so he made sure the game was a nice and slow boundary line long bomb tussle.

Nicks just has no answers the second a change of thinking is required.

We should be doing everything in our power to open up play in every single game we play. That should be our MO

I tend to agree, but the slippery conditions would've led to turnovers esp when going for kicks into the middle, etc. Collingwood would've feasted on that. If our kicking skills were elite then it's a different story.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Sadly, a few want to retain him for next week, maybe forever.

They’ll put his tombstone on a half back flank…

 

[davos44]

Having calmed down and reflected on the game. This was won and lost in the coaches box again.

McRae forced a long slow game down the line and we took the bait hook line and sinker. Apart from the last 10 minutes, we did nothing to change the game up.

McRae knew we had a forward line that would kick a big score if we moved the ball quickly so he made sure the game was a nice and slow boundary line long bomb tussle.

Nicks just has no answers the second a change of thinking is required.

We should be doing everything in our power to open up play in every single game we play. That should be our MO

The game was lost by Fogarty giving away 50 while 65M out. Allowing Elliot a contested mark 10M out, Rachele missing 35M out with a goal to Mihocek from 55M out 30 seconds later, Curtin missing 30M out, Rankine missing everything twice from 45M out, Worrell fumbling in the goal square (yes it was rough like the Milera "throw") and some awful defensive actions in Q1 resulting in easy goals.

When we went hard and fast it resulted in a turnover at half back, great sides aren't going to allow us to just waltz through them.

There has to be more than 1 way to play/win and that is a work in progress with a middle of the pack list which lacks midfield grunt.

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

+8 Inside 50's against the Pies, so for me it was a big midfield tick.

But an absolutely mind-boggingly poor 89 turnovers (+15).....and ground ball gets deplorable