Preview R2: Changes v Port

[dogs105]

Sloane's exception of the rule has been happening ALL this season throughout the NAB cup as well. Where are the thousands of posts about that? It is the double standard that annoys me and the continual moving of goal posts on people who want to hang shit on one of our players, but won't put the same caveats on other players. A rule for two and a different rule for everyone else.

#sackSloane

 

[VSTone]

A pressure act doesn't necessarily imply hardness at the ball carrier. Getting a hand to them as they effectively dispose of the ball is a pressure act. Pressure acts can be a sign of getting to a contest but not getting the ball and not quite getting the opponent with the ball. Don't get me wrong, better to pressure than not when not in possession, but there's not necessarily any correlation between pressure acts and hardness at the ball carrier.

And to lump an isolated poor game from Sloane in with Mackay is absurd. Just dumb.

an empty mars bar packet blowing across the paddock can effectively pick up a pressure act stat... could it be the worst ever stat devised?

 

[1970crow]

Sloane's exception of the rule has been happening ALL this season throughout the NAB cup as well. Where are the thousands of posts about that? It is the double standard that annoys me and the continual moving of goal posts on people who want to hang shit on one of our players, but won't put the same caveats on other players. A rule for two and a different rule for everyone else.

Really dumb post. Sloane finished in the top few of last years b&f and is a past winner. Has played one poor game in a row and you expect people to view him in the same light as VB and Mackay. That's straight up nuts.

Also, can you explain how Mackay's pressure acts mean he's had a good game, whereas Sloane's seem to be meaningless. There's your 2 sets of rules and rampant hypocrisy.

 

[dogs105]

Players who need to lift from Saturday night:

Brad Crouch
Rory Sloane
Sam Jacobs
David Mackay
Paul Seedsman
Brodie Smith
Rory Laird
Jake Lever
Daniel Talia
Scott Thompson
Mitch McGovern
Wayne Milera
Richard Douglas
Tom Lynch
Kyle Cheney
Taylor Walker
Rory Atkins
Eddie Betts


How did we get so close?

 

[NikkiNoo]

Really dumb post. Sloane finished in the top few of last years b&f and is a past winner. Has played one poor game in a row and you expect people to view him in the same light as VB and Mackay. That's straight up nuts.

Also, can you explain how Mackay's pressure acts mean he's had a good game, whereas Sloane's seem to be meaningless. There's your 2 sets of rules and rampant hypocrisy.

He has played THREE poor games in a row. His NAB cup form was very sub par and it seems it carried over to the main season game. It's not one poor game in a row, but three.

Mackay managed to run and carry and get involved in score involvements, whereas Sloane was seen less on the ground than Seedsman and Mackay from what I saw watching the game. Sloane needs to do more than just pressure acts, which is a base standard that we expect from him. Mackay gets slammed for not being 'hard' enough, so when a stat shows that he did that and he got involved in scoring, that still isn't enough for you all.

 

[1970crow]

an empty mars bar packet blowing across the paddock can effectively pick up a pressure act stat... could it be the worst ever stat devised?

Pressure is important, but not as much as getting the pill. Can't clock a pressure act or a tackle stat when you have the ball. It's basically laying a hand on a disposer, it really only suggests intent to effect the contest rather than efficacy.

 

[MattyB_76]

Sounds like they have to be effective to be counted:

A player will score a point for a physical pressure act when he lays an effective tackle or lays a hand on the opposition ball carrier as he tries to get the ball away.

With implied pressure being tracked for the first time, the ability to corral an opponent will be rewarded.

Players chasing an opponent from behind, forcing them to hurriedly dispose of the ball, also will be rewarded with a "pressure act".

So what this says is Mackay is always just out of arms reach of the player with the ball.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I can't help but laugh at these assertions that the club is inventing roles and picking players because they have so many years left on the contract or because they are in leadership group. Seriously people? Are you just that deluded?

Do you honestly don't think that the club would love to have absolute superstars at every position on the field? Do you honestly think that they would not prefer to have an upgrade on most of the players on our list? Hell I am sure they would prefer Dangerfield to Thompson, or Fyfe to Sloane or Ablett to Douglas etc...

Point is, the clubs selects players on their performance based on their role in the side. They pick players with certain skill sets for certain roles in the side. Sometimes players get selected for that role despite not being in great form because no other player has a skill set profile to fit that role.

Fact remains that every coach to date has picked Mackay in his team. Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo, Pyke. They all picked him in their best 22. They can't all be wrong. They all must see something in him and are happy enough with the role he is playing. Like with every player, his form flactuates but bottom line is that all 6 coaches have picked him in in their side and don't bring up this speculative bullshit that Walsh was about to drop him when he was clearly named for the game against Geelong that we never played due to tragic circumstances. Didn't Walsh also praise him for his courage and effort in his game against Melbourne at Adelaide Oval last year when Bernie took Dangerfield to the cleaners?

Now we as fans might not like certain players for whatever reasons BUT that doesn't mean that those players are useless or can't play or don't have the talent to have a decent AFL career.

The thing with new coaches is that everyone gets a clean slate and they are out to impress the coach and get their spot. Dmac by all reports has had a great pre-season and as such as earned his spot in the side. His performances going forward will dictate whether he keeps that spot or not, especially now that there is greater competition for that role. His game on Saturday night was no worse than the game of half the other players in the team. As such he is not going to get dropped nor should he. There would be plenty of others before him that would be dropped if we are looking for production based on expectations.

One this is for certain, round 1 team is very different to the team that gets selected to play in the final round of the home and away season and finals. I suspect by the end of the season, there will be half a dozen changes to the side that played North Melbourne and Mackay could very well be one of those changes with greater competition for his spot.

Sit back, relax and stop getting your knickers in a knot after round 1 where he was far from our worse player.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Sounds like they have to be effective to be counted:

A player will score a point for a physical pressure act when he lays an effective tackle or lays a hand on the opposition ball carrier as he tries to get the ball away.

With implied pressure being tracked for the first time, the ability to corral an opponent will be rewarded.

Players chasing an opponent from behind, forcing them to hurriedly dispose of the ball, also will be rewarded with a "pressure act".

I found it interesting that he was equal first (with the poor Sloane) for pressure acts, which implies hardness at the ball carrier, which is something people say he doesn't do well. Those stats seem to say otherwise.

Mackay has never had a problem with attempting to apply pressure to the ball carrier, it's just that he is often brushed aside by his opponent. According to the highlighted part of the definition, does this mean when Mackay tick out one arm and it's the opposition pushes past like there was nothing there, it counts as a pressure act?

 

[Slippery Pete]

He has played THREE poor games in a row. His NAB cup form was very sub par and it seems it carried over to the main season game. It's not one poor game in a row, but three.

Your argument's in a lot of trouble if you're using NAB Cup games to support it.

 

[1970crow]

So what this says is Mackay is always just out of arms reach of the player with the ball.

It's actually something that occurs a bit with Mackay when chasing a player down. He gets close, but can never quite get them. His tackles aren't generally from running chases.

 

[dogs105]

Your argument's in a lot of trouble if you're using NAB Cup games to support it.

So they count for absolutely nothing when assessing form?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Players who need to lift from Saturday night:

Brad Crouch
Rory Sloane
Sam Jacobs
David Mackay
Paul Seedsman
Brodie Smith
Rory Laird
Jake Lever
Daniel Talia
Scott Thompson
Mitch McGovern
Wayne Milera
Richard Douglas
Tom Lynch
Kyle Cheney
Taylor Walker
Rory Atkins
Eddie Betts


How did we get so close?

TheLeftFist8 you liked this?

So Am i correct that all those players Except Van Berlo have to lift this week?

 

[Slippery Pete]

So they count for absolutely nothing when assessing form?

Even less than nothing.

 

[dogs105]

TheLeftFist8 you liked this?

So Am i correct that all those players Except Van Berlo have to lift this week?

Well, I have VB out of the team. Hopefully plays a blinder in the 2s.

 

[dogs105]

Even less than nothing.

So we should be picking players who were shit in the preseason?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Well, I have VB out of the team. Hopefully plays a blinder in the 2s.

Bit presumptuous there Dogs

 

[VSTone]

Players who need to lift from Saturday night:

Brad Crouch
Rory Sloane
Sam Jacobs
David Mackay
Paul Seedsman
Brodie Smith
Rory Laird
Jake Lever
Daniel Talia
Scott Thompson
Mitch McGovern
Wayne Milera
Richard Douglas
Tom Lynch
Kyle Cheney
Taylor Walker
Rory Atkins
Eddie Betts


How did we get so close?

last year we belted them...

 

[Slippery Pete]

So we should be picking players who were shit in the preseason?

If their names are Rory Sloane, Taylor Walker and Daniel Talia - yes.

 

[Elite Crow]

I can't help but laugh at these assertions that the club is inventing roles and picking players because they have so many years left on the contract or because they are in leadership group. Seriously people? Are you just that deluded?

Do you honestly don't think that the club would love to have absolute superstars at every position on the field? Do you honestly think that they would not prefer to have an upgrade on most of the players on our list? Hell I am sure they would prefer Dangerfield to Thompson, or Fyfe to Sloane or Ablett to Douglas etc...

Point is, the clubs selects players on their performance based on their role in the side. They pick players with certain skill sets for certain roles in the side. Sometimes players get selected for that role despite not being in great form because no other player has a skill set profile to fit that role.

Fact remains that every coach to date has picked Mackay in his team. Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo, Pyke. They all picked him in their best 22. They can't all be wrong. They all must see something in him and are happy enough with the role he is playing. Like with every player, his form flactuates but bottom line is that all 6 coaches have picked him in in their side and don't bring up this speculative bullshit that Walsh was about to drop him when he was clearly named for the game against Geelong that we never played due to tragic circumstances. Didn't Walsh also praise him for his courage and effort in his game against Melbourne at Adelaide Oval last year when Bernie took Dangerfield to the cleaners?

Now we as fans might not like certain players for whatever reasons BUT that doesn't mean that those players are useless or can't play or don't have the talent to have a decent AFL career.

The thing with new coaches is that everyone gets a clean slate and they are out to impress the coach and get their spot. Dmac by all reports has had a great pre-season and as such as earned his spot in the side. His performances going forward will dictate whether he keeps that spot or not, especially now that there is greater competition for that role. His game on Saturday night was no worse than the game of half the other players in the team. As such he is not going to get dropped nor should he. There would be plenty of others before him that would be dropped if we are looking for production based on expectations.

One this is for certain, round 1 team is very different to the team that gets selected to play in the final round of the home and away season and finals. I suspect by the end of the season, there will be half a dozen changes to the side that played North Melbourne and Mackay could very well be one of those changes with greater competition for his spot.

Sit back, relax and stop getting your knickers in a knot after round 1 where he was far from our worse player.

The example which counters what you've just posted is the justification of Wrights and MacKays selections because of non-statistical roles. A couple of weeks later and with no change in performance they are dropped and with Wright he's delisted.

Then we go out and recruit a heap of players to fill DMacks role.

Also if you don't think a club will give a player with another 3 years on his contact more opportunities than a player with 1 year left you're the deluded one.

 

[Magma]

out: van berlo
in: hartigan

whole game felt like we were short a tall down back. port have 3 of them. unless you put mcgovern down back and swap van berlo for knight or something. mackay did some decent things and probably deserves another run around. same for milera and mcgovern. but there are quite a few blokes in the ressies who look alright so there's no point giving blokes 4 5 6 chances to find their feet. if they can't after 2-3 games, tell them to find their feet in the ressies. simple.

 

[dogs105]

If their names are Rory Sloane, Taylor Walker and Daniel Talia - yes.

So you actually think nothing, not less than nothing.

 

[Paladin]

No I am not. I was at the SANFL game on the weekend, looking forward to seeing Knight and Cameron really pressing their claim as I would prefer them in the team, but they were not quite up to the standard we require. You said you wanted Mackay out for either Knight or Cameron and I'm saying, on what I saw, Cameron is not ready and Knight maybe if you only looked at the half a game he did.

I would put Seedsman in the 6/10 mark as well on the weekend, so why is no one calling for his head? Sloane was bad. Why no one calling for him to be dropped? Crouch and Atkins both thought they were playing SANFL. No calling for them to be dropped. Why do those players get a leeway? Because the group think is that Mackay is bad and can't improve on that 6/10. He has played well above that before but hasn't reached those heights in a while, I agree, but there is the possibility there and I'm willing to wait a little longer than one game in the proper season to hang him out to dry. He isn't John Butcher.

We allow the others more leeway because we trust that they can get to the higher level again, except that Sloane has been poor all pre-season, well below his standard that I expect to see from him. Mackay has performed okay, and done some good things.

I found it interesting that he was equal first (with the poor Sloane) for pressure acts, which implies hardness at the ball carrier, which is something people say he doesn't do well. Those stats seem to say otherwise.

I was there too Nikki and i'm absolutely convinced Knight would offer much much more than dmac. Mackay wasn't horrible but he never does enough so why persist with him? Its very strange that people want to keep playing him and expect different results - insanity yeah?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How many coaches picked Wright every game until he was delisted?

 

[dogs105]

How many coaches picked Wright every game until he was delisted?

And finally vindicated by Bolton!