Preview R2: Changes v Port

[Bovo]

Port have two decent forwards to contend with in Shulze and Dixon. Dixon is surprisingly tall. Gotta be a Talia and Hartigan.

So in Hartigan. VB was named in the back so is an obvious omission.

Can Cheney run with the Hoff? He is a slippery sucker and seems to pop up all over the ground....otherwise can Hendo do it?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

yes indeed a stark difference between how some players do it and exactly why it's a stupid blanket stat...

All the coaches and people that work in the game must be wrong and you must be right

 

[VSTone]

I know everyone's been waiting for my insight but I've been busy. So, here it is:

Did going in a KPD short kill us? No.
Mackay? Not as terrible as usual. Positive reinforcement, he stays in this week while the SANFL players get up to speed
VB? Holy Lord no. Good bye. Knight, Inanimate Carbon Rod, anyone. Was disgraceful.
Should we bring Henderson in as a replacement? Hmmm... no. Those with longer memories will recall that any time he comes straight into the team after a layoff, he stinks it up for a month. Give him a month of SANFL to find touch.
Cameron? another week in the SANFL for match fitness thanks
Lyons? Grigg? do we need one of them?
Brad Couch? Rusty... is putting it mildly. After 25 games he's considered the backbone of the side already, so like a family where the father went to the store for cigarettes and never came back, he's the man of the house at age 10. Yikes.
Matt Couch? Good stuff mate.
Douglas? Did he play? I only saw him in the second half, and his last quarter sucked.
Atkins? did alright for his ninth game.
Milera and McGovern? didn't do much but will be eons better for the exposure.
Jacobs? you're good mate but you're not the best.
Lynchy? that's what getting tagged is like mate, work it out, you're a veteran in this side.
Jenkins? is it a contract year mate? just kidding, keep it up

I think the best response the coach could have had after Saturday night's game was

"500 push-ups everyone, get to it - except for you Leroy"

All the senior players stunk, all our disposal stunk, we stunk - and yet we nearly won.

So, unchanged, or VB gone; Mackay on last chance.

so if VB goes out who comes in?

 

[VSTone]

All the coaches and people that work in the game must be wrong and you must be right

are you going to just keep banging on?

 

[Deaneus!]

so if VB goes out who comes in?

Either Hartigan or Knight, depending on how we want to structure the side for Poort.

 

[1970crow]

All the coaches and people that work in the game must be wrong and you must be right

Have you got the pressure act premiership table for 2015? Would be very interested.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Firstly are you saying Knight only played one good half, the first or 2nd? Going by the stats he seemed to get a lot more of the ball in the second which means after a quiet first half he worked his way into it.

Yup, he really worked into the game in the second half. First half was a bit fumbly and scratchy with a couple of missed kicks. West were very much putting work into trying to contain him/stop him at all costs, but by the second half he had gotten the hang of the speed of the game. Hence why I have been a little on the fence about will he definitely come into calculations in respect to the AFL game. It all depends on if our selection panel is happy with a good second half or want a full solid game instead.

 

[VSTone]

Have you got the pressure act premiership table for 2015? Would be very interested.

good idea...

 

[Miss Vanessa]

I'm not sure Hartigan will return. It would be admitting that they got the structure wrong and I doubt they'll shelve it after one game. VB and Mackay both likely to remain as well. There summer would have been too good to be dropped after just one poor game.

I'm sure you're right about VB and Mackay though it is going to be super interesting when Cameron, Knight, Menzel and Hampton are all match fit at the same time. Plus, if Beech, Lyons, Grigg, CEY all perform well, that adds to the intrigue.

I hope you're wrong about Hartigan though. I thought he was a pretty key component in our better footy last year and while I love Lever and rate Cheney, they still seem to struggle against genuine key forwards.

 

[Miss Vanessa]

Hmmm and I had 4 of them in my notional best 22 (Knight, Cameron, Menzel, Milera) as well as Hampton.

I'm intrigued. You had some of them playing up the field then, away from the forward line?

 

[1970crow]

All the coaches and people that work in the game must be wrong and you must be right

One thing that is clear is that pressure acts rank a distant third behind actually having the ball and tackles. A pressure act is what you get when you either can't get to a player quick enough or can't hold the player once there. A pressure act doesn't have to affect the opponents disposal to be recorded. But it is evidence that a player is working to contests and remaining in them. But I'm sure the coaches would prefer them to have the ball or execute an actual tackle.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

One thing that is clear is that pressure acts rank a distant third behind actually having the ball and tackles. A pressure act is what you get when you either can't get to a player quick enough or can't hold the player once there. A pressure act doesn't have to affect the opponents disposal to be recorded. But it is evidence that a player is working to contests and remaining in them. But I'm sure the coaches would prefer them to have the ball or execute an actual tackle.

Where did I say that ? If you don't think pressure acts are important then you don't understand team defence or the modern game

 

[Jeffcrowe]

good idea...

Thought you were done this convo?

 

[VSTone]

Thought you were done this convo?

do you have the stat table? would be interesting for a look.
not interested in fluffing feathers though... i'll save that for the port campaigners... they'll be here soon...
hide your keys...

 

[Elite Crow]

Port have two decent forwards to contend with in Shulze and Dixon. Dixon is surprisingly tall. Gotta be a Talia and Hartigan.

So in Hartigan. VB was named in the back so is an obvious omission.

Can Cheney run with the Hoff? He is a slippery sucker and seems to pop up all over the ground....otherwise can Hendo do it?

Didn't Westhoff kick a few or have a few chances?

 

[1970crow]

Where did I say that ? If you don't think pressure acts are important then you don't understand team defence or the modern game

I'm just saying that they're nowhere near as important as a few other things which happen on a footy field. Simple fact.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

do you have the stat table? would be interesting for a look.
not interested in fluffing feathers though... i'll save that for the port campaigners... they'll be here soon...
hide your keys...

Sydney has consistently been the best pressure act side in the league the last 4 years ... They go ok against us . We have been pretty poor hence concede big scores . Our tackling is also poor which compounds the issue

Even pyke said in presser that tackling numbers are just one small factor in how you defend and he looks at them in context of how much ball we won but also how much pressure we apply

Walshys famous quote ' you either apply or receive pressure and the team that usually applies it most wins '

I'll dig up more if you're interested - not sure you are though?

Would be nice if you weren't just making pot shots but genuinely wanted to know

Another one slightly off topic is way recruiters define different forward types - dangerous forwards , key forwards (tex) hybrid forwards ( lynch) and pressure forwards ( Cameron)

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'm just saying that they're nowhere near as important as a few other things which happen on a footy field. Simple fact.

They aren't the most important but they are still important

Charlie Cameron is the prime example - we can afford to carry him on his quiet days where he has 5-10 possessions because he's our best at it

 

[Godallblighty]

Sounds like they have to be effective to be counted:

A player will score a point for a physical pressure act when he lays an effective tackle or lays a hand on the opposition ball carrier as he tries to get the ball away.

With implied pressure being tracked for the first time, the ability to corral an opponent will be rewarded.

Players chasing an opponent from behind, forcing them to hurriedly dispose of the ball, also will be rewarded with a "pressure act".

Well, I guess what I'm suggesting is that, in order for this to be a meaningful stat, the pressure act has to result in some benefit to your team. If we're measuring 'laying a hand on the opposition ball carrier' or laying a tackle where there is no benefit, then I think the value is dubious. For instance, I would rate a shepherd to protect the ball-carrier as a pressure act with clear benefit, but a tackle which takes a player to ground but still allows them to get off an effective handball is probably not. Similarly, 'hurriedly disposing of the ball' means diddly squat if they hurriedly dispose of it lace-out to a leading forward.

 

[VSTone]

Sydney has consistently been the best pressure act side in the league the last 4 years ... They go ok against us . We have been pretty poor hence concede big scores . Our tackling is also poor which compounds the issue

Even pyke said in presser that tackling numbers are just one small factor in how you defend and he looks at them in context of how much ball we won but also how much pressure we apply

Walshys famous quote ' you either apply or receive pressure and the team that usually applies it most wins '

I'll dig up more if you're interested - not sure you are though?

Would be nice if you weren't just making pot shots but genuinely wanted to know

Another one slightly off topic is way recruiters define different forward types - dangerous forwards , key forwards (tex) hybrid forwards ( lynch) and pressure forwards ( Cameron)

i don't need quotes, i am purely interested in the raw stats...

 

[VSTone]

where is the line between a bad kick and a bad kick under pressure... how does one tell that a kick is bad because of the pressure?

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

where is the line between a bad kick and a bad kick under pressure... how does one tell that a kick is bad because of the pressure?

If it's Adelaide then it's the former.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

i don't need quotes, i am purely interested in the raw stats...

Track some down for you tomorrow if you're interested

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Hartigan can play the Cheney role on tall forwards better.

Cheney can play the vb role better.

Surely hartigan for Vb is a no brainer. We don't become any slower - just taller. Vb needs to find touch & agility in the Sanfl.

If knight is ready, he needs to come in. For either milera or mackay, depending on team balance... Which probably means the former.

McGovern must stay in until at least cc is ready, as his tackling is the real deal forward pressure that no one else provides consistently.

 

[Vader]

Honestly, Mackay surprised me on Sat night. Did some good stuff.

VB needs to go, though.

Out: VB
In: Knight

I would put Hartigan in too, but I can't see for who...

I think VB <--> Knight is likely to be the only change. No pressing need for Hartigan and his last couple of games haven't exactly demanded AFL selection (MMC game vs Gold Coast, SANFL game vs West Adelaide). Most accounts suggest that Cameron isn't quite there yet, so they don't have to make a tough decision on Milera just yet.